View Full Version : Original Large Advent upgrade with Dayton drivers


leesonic
11-17-2011, 08:31 PM
After having no luck selling my Original Large Advent cabinets, I finally got around to making new baffles to mount the Dayton drivers I bought. I couldn't resist bringing them in from the garage and taking some pictures. The baffles are just lying in the cabs, with pencil measurements still all over them, and the drivers aren't screwed down. I still need to cut holes for the reflex ports, make a sub-enclosure for the midrange driver, and figure out what kind of crossover I'm going to use.

Drivers are :

Dayton Audio DA270-8 10" Aluminum Cone Woofer
Dayton Audio DA115-8 4" Aluminum Cone Woofer (used as midrange)
Dayton Audio DC28F-8 1-1/8" Silk Dome Tweeter

Lee.

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AdventRebuild01.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AdventRebuild02.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AdventRebuild03.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AdventRebuild04.jpg

HypnoToad
11-17-2011, 08:39 PM
They look neat, what about tri-amping?

jimfet
11-17-2011, 09:19 PM
Go back to PE, and get 2 of their 3 way X overs.

sfox52
11-17-2011, 09:24 PM
Njce work! Let us know what they sound like.

babblefish
11-17-2011, 11:51 PM
Those look great! Can't wait to read how they sound like. Did that sound strange or is it just me?

leesonic
11-18-2011, 05:59 AM
They look neat, what about tri-amping?

I can just about afford one amp, let alone three. Boracic geezer!

Go back to PE, and get 2 of their 3 way X overs.

You have experience with their crossovers?

Lee.

gearhound
11-18-2011, 10:00 AM
They look real nice!

I'm using that same Dayton 4" aluminum cone driver in a DIY mini-monitor, crossed over to a planar tweeter at 5Khz.

Steve

mhardy6647
11-18-2011, 10:40 AM
This comment isn't actually meant to be as snarky as it's going to sound - "upgrade" is sort of a misnomer, isn't it? This is more "building a new loudspeaker in old OLA boxes", isn't it? Not really on any particular vector path (up, down, or otherwise) from an OLA, I'd opine.

Looks nice; let us know how they sound when they're finished. What's the tuning for the cabinet going to be? XO points and orders?
Did you choose metal cones for any particular reason?

leesonic
11-18-2011, 10:54 AM
This comment isn't actually meant to be as snarky as it's going to sound - "upgrade" is sort of a misnomer, isn't it? This is more "building a new loudspeaker in old OLA boxes", isn't it? Not really on any particular vector path (up, down, or otherwise) from an OLA, I'd opine.

I know, but "building a new loudspeaker in old OLA boxes" would have been a long title. I hate to see nice cabinets get thrown out, I guess I'm a HiFi hoarder.

Looks nice; let us know how they sound when they're finished. What's the tuning for the cabinet going to be? XO points and orders?
Did you choose metal cones for any particular reason?

The cabinet is slightly smaller than the optimum for that driver. I plan on tuning it to give a slight hump in the bass a la JBL L100s. That said, it's only a 1.5dB hump, so might not even be detectable.

As for crossovers, I was going to plump for some generics, but someone over at Parts Express tech talk sent me some specs, so I might use them.

I've always like the look of metal coned speakers, but never owned any. The woofers and tweeters came up half price on the Parts Express Classifieds section, so I jumped on them.

Lee.

Hajidub
11-18-2011, 10:59 AM
Lee, how are you going to determine port size and depth? Do you engineer the crossover prior to port dimensions, or is it the other way around?

kconnor
11-18-2011, 11:28 AM
About that crossover…metal drivers act almost as pure pistons within their operating range but typically have nasty break up resonances outside of it on the high end. That must be dealt with in the crossover; usually requiring higher order (steeper) filters. This being a 3-way alleviates that concern in a big way. The cost/ performance value of the aluminum Dayton drivers is very high. I think your remake will look stunning without a grill in place. I can’t wait to see how this turn out.
You can use WINISD to determine port size, with a 10" woofer I think you come out OK. You might find it works great in a sealed cabinet of that size.

mfhale
11-18-2011, 11:40 AM
Nice! I'll be looking for your listening impressions, Lee.

mhardy6647
11-18-2011, 11:43 AM
I know, but "building a new loudspeaker in old OLA boxes" would have been a long title. I hate to see nice cabinets get thrown out, I guess I'm a HiFi hoarder.



The cabinet is slightly smaller than the optimum for that driver. I plan on tuning it to give a slight hump in the bass a la JBL L100s. That said, it's only a 1.5dB hump, so might not even be detectable.

As for crossovers, I was going to plump for some generics, but someone over at Parts Express tech talk sent me some specs, so I might use them.

I've always like the look of metal coned speakers, but never owned any. The woofers and tweeters came up half price on the Parts Express Classifieds section, so I jumped on them.

Lee.

ahhh. Great answers. Thanks!
Keep us posted.

Zach C.
11-20-2011, 10:34 AM
...figure out what kind of crossover I'm going to use.



What you've got there should be the beginning of some very good sounding speakers. Those Dayton DA drivers sound way nicer than the price suggests. With a proper crossover, I would expect that this would in fact be an upgrade.

ANY off the shelf XO is going to be a crap shoot. It may sound pretty good, or it might suck rocks. Regardless it won't be optimized, and the off the shelf XOs never take baffle step compensation into account much less the many other variables. For example, you'll need at least 3dB of baffle step compensation on the woofer to mate to the mid since the woofer is about 3dB more sensitive according to the spec sheets, and you man want more depending on room placement/ listening preferences.There are lots of guys at the PE board who would enjoy helping you develop a good XO for you drivers in that box. It may need some tweaking since speaker design is very room dependent, but the result will be well worth the effort.

Tell them what you've got and what you want to get out of it, and you'll get a lot of good help over there. You'll want to consider room size, shape, and placement as well. Not sure what the inside of those cabinets look like, but I'd recommend that you ask about bracing, damping, and alignment as well.

I apologize if you already know this, but these things are frequently under appreciated, and while the result may be good, it can be great with a just little extra care.

I think this looks like a very promising relatively cheap set up. Best of luck!

Zach

leesonic
11-21-2011, 04:29 AM
There are lots of guys at the PE board who would enjoy helping you develop a good XO for you drivers in that box.

Like I said, someone over on the PE board has given me some specs of a crossover to use, so I'll be going with that.

Lee.

parman
11-21-2011, 05:02 AM
Is that birch you used to mount the speakers in, sure looks different.

Zach C.
11-21-2011, 06:56 AM
Like I said, someone over on the PE board has given me some specs of a crossover to use, so I'll be going with that.

Lee.

I missed that. Good Deal.

Zach

leesonic
02-07-2012, 03:05 PM
Haven't done anything with these Advents for a while, so I thought it was about time I got around to finishing projects that I've started.

Here are some pictures of the cabinets, before (right) and after (left) sanding down using progressively finer grades of sandpaper and then applying Tung oil. You can see the difference in the shine by the reflection of the cardboard mailer they are standing on. The light spot you can see on the left side is some wood filler where I made a repair. I figured I'd wait until all the Tung oiling was done, as the wood gets darker with each application.

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild05.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild06.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild07.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild08.jpg

Not sure what crossovers I'll use. Someone was kind enough to model a crossover for me over on the Tech Talk forum on Part Express, but it uses an 8mH inductor for the woofer. I re-foamed a lot of speakers last year, all different makes and models, at not once did I see a crossover with that much copper in series with the woofer. Some, like my AR18S and AR94S have woofers that use no crossover at all. Maybe I'll start with something simple.

Lee.

leesonic
02-20-2012, 05:05 PM
Here are before and after pics of the baffles. Left of picture is after rubbing down with 220, 400, 800 and then steel wool, with an application of Tung oil after each.

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild09.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild10.jpg

bricktop
02-20-2012, 05:16 PM
Very nice. I love the look of an oiled wood, among other things.

gyrene
02-20-2012, 05:30 PM
Very nice.Very interesting.Are you talking about active crossovers?
Keep the pics coming.
You are doing great.

MrIgotNomoney
02-20-2012, 06:08 PM
Damn.....
Incredible idea and workmanship!!!!
I have a pair of Fairfax speakers begging for a re do.
Im thinking Ill have another project soon.
bob

leesonic
03-15-2012, 04:11 AM
Update:

Both cabinets have now been rubbed down and Tung oiled. The baffle is glued in on one, and ready to be glued in on the other, both baffles were also rubbed down and Tung oil applied. Yesterday, I made the plates to mount the terminals on the back, and I was going to paint the backs of the cabinets black. But on closer inspection, there was this weird white filler in the joins where the back panel meets the sides, top and bottom pieces. It had gone all hard and brittle, so I scraped it all out with a pick, and used a syringe from one of those "refill your own ink cartridges" type kits to inject some wood glue in there.

I now have all the pieces for the crossover that Chris over on the Parts Express forum very kindly designed for me. I also have some crossover PCBs left over from when I did my JBL L100 restoration (http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=349002) that I'm going to use. Here is the crossover schematic :

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AdventXover3.gif

Lee.

RayW
03-15-2012, 10:12 AM
Looks great! The reason for that monster inductor is because you'll have a low crossover point for the woofer. The speakers you refoamed last year were most likely a) not metal coned and b) not 3-way with a low XO on the woofer.

Having said that, my Big Bobs are a 3-way with the woofer filter at about 500Hz and they use a 3mH inductor. Your 8mH would be a little over an octave below that so it's probably around 200Hz or so. Not unreasonable and having a filter that low will help bury the driver's breakup mode.

Can't wait to hear your impressions.

KingKoopa
03-15-2012, 01:00 PM
I have that tweeter. Very smooth.

SPL db
03-15-2012, 01:10 PM
This looks good, can't wait till they're debuted. :yes: :thmbsp:

leesonic
03-19-2012, 08:28 AM
Got the crossovers built over the weekend. The big gobs of hot melt glue on the inductor wires are there to hopefully stop the wire resonating.

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild11.jpg

Lee.

djnagle
03-19-2012, 01:47 PM
Looking good Lee.

Sir.Byrd
03-26-2012, 12:37 AM
After you do some testing to get those values final, I would consider upgrading the three caps that are in series with the tweeter and midrange to film or a combination of film and NPE.

leesonic
03-27-2012, 01:02 PM
Finally got them together...

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild12.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild13.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild14.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild15.jpg

And here they are in the "listening room". Yes, I know, plonked on top of some other speakers, in the corners of the room isn't the ideal place for them, but it's all I have to work with at the moment until we get a bigger house. When I get some more free time, I'll put them on some stands and pull them out, and have a good listen. Preliminary listening tests are good : they have very good bass extension, and midrange presence, the treble is smooth but a little muted compared to the AR94S below. I might try tweaking the padding resistors on the tweeter a little bit.

The record crates are in front of my AR94S are to stop my baby daughter from poking in the dust caps of the woofers I just refoamed. When she learns to climb on them, I will have to seek alternate protection...

Lee.

http://home.comcast.net/~leesonic/AK/AdventRebuild16.jpg

Tube Radio
05-27-2012, 01:04 PM
Yes definitely upgrade the capacitors to film caps at least for the tweeter. Doing that might help the tweeter sound better.

Taowolf51
08-17-2012, 01:57 PM
Hey, you got them put together! How do they sound?

leesonic
08-18-2012, 07:38 AM
They sound really good. Switching to them from my AR94S, you hear more detail in the midrange. Bass performance is impressive too, the treble seems a little quiet though. There is a capacitor in the crossover I can remove to get a little more volume to the tweeter, I might try that.

Things are hectic here though, we have sold our house, and have to be out by September 14th.

Lee.

DaWoofer
08-18-2012, 12:57 PM
Very nice job to say the least. Good luck on the move and hope it goes smoothly.

Tube Radio
08-18-2012, 03:50 PM
They sound really good. Switching to them from my AR94S, you hear more detail in the midrange. Bass performance is impressive too, the treble seems a little quiet though. There is a capacitor in the crossover I can remove to get a little more volume to the tweeter, I might try that.

Things are hectic here though, we have sold our house, and have to be out by September 14th.

Lee.

Don't remove that capacitor :nono:. It is there for a reason. Replace the capacitor with a film capacitor and it might sound better :yes:. If that don't work then you may have to use a tweeter with a higher output.

leesonic
08-18-2012, 09:24 PM
Don't remove that capacitor :nono:. It is there for a reason. Replace the capacitor with a film capacitor and it might sound better :yes:. If that don't work then you may have to use a tweeter with a higher output.

Why did I say capacitor? I meant resistor, the 10 ohm shunt across the tweeter.

Lee.

Tube Radio
08-18-2012, 10:26 PM
Not a good idea either as that will change the impedance the crossover sees which will lower the crossover point of the tweeter. Not sure what effect that would have though.

nexus
12-23-2012, 11:16 PM
great job! i am still partial to AS and kloss' original concepts, so for me i would have probably gone with another woofer but something like the morel mw series are excellent but expensive..

i really like the look of the PE aluminum cones!

Tube Radio
12-23-2012, 11:34 PM
You ever try the film capacitors in stead of the NPE?

sonex
04-13-2013, 09:30 PM
nice build the baffle looks nice. that was really nice of chris to design the xo for you, he is very good at designing excellent sounding xo's. I am a little surprised you did not flush mount the tweets. looks like a reasonable cost 3 way design, I may build my own version with home built cabs. I'm guessing the details are on a PE thread?

Freds.Bands
05-12-2013, 02:04 PM
If you alter the 10 ohm tweeter resistor, try keeping the total resistance of that leg to 13 ohms. So if you go to 7 ohms also change to 6 ohms in the other one. Keep the same total to keep the proper balance. Or you could use an L-pad and adjust to your taste. You probably can't get a 13 ohm L-pad, but you likely can get a 15 ohm one; bridge the 15 ohm with a 100 ohm resistor in parallel and you'll maintain 13 ohms.

Did you consider time alignment of your drivers. They all seem to be surface mounted.

And BTW they do look great!