Hello, im knd of new to audio and so im new around here too. This is definatly a killer site tho.:uzi:

Im trying to build a system with very little money to thoroughly enjoy music on. Espically jazz world rock and some electronic. Ive read much about tubes, here mainly from sixcats threads, and would like to get into them

My main source will be a Pink triangle Pt too turntable, my second source and tape deck maby a Nak, but not sure yet.

In terms of speakers, so far i have decided on Pi, theatre series 4 Pi Speakers. They have 101dB sensitivity, with Eminence horns and 15'' drivers. I would build them to save money.

Heres what i need help with. I want to get a vintage tube amp, it must be intergrated (due to little cash and space), have a very good phono stage as i cant afford a seperate one (even better 2 VG stages), easy to srevice repaire and re tube. I guess the most improtant is that it is a great partner with the 4pis. Another consideration is that im in England.

From what ive read Scott i think 229 has a great phono stage, Fishers seem highly praised too, as do Sherwood.

The imput im really after is names and models of amps which may fit the bill, so i can go away and reshearch them individually and look out for them at good prices.

Hopefully if it all works out well i will end up with a really very nice sounding system, Analog - tubes - horns - Me!
;)

Thanks for all ive gained from the site already, and for any help you can give me now.

Regards.

hi Buddah boy :)


Are you limited to vintage receivers? Would you consider DIY? Going with a phono stage...you may be better off with a vintage receiver than a newer model tube amp or DIY kit. There are some nice kits out there...but you'll usually have to add a separate external phono stage ( like the DIY
seduction kit (http://www.bottlehead.com/et/adobespc/Seduction/seduction.htm) from doc bottlehead.)

how much are you looking to spend?

if you end up building the four Pi's...why don't you post your project in the DIY forum?


take care>>>>

Welcome aboard BB

Are you planning on using a MC or a MM with the Pink Triangle ?
If MC then your gonna need a seperate Phono amp. Unless you use a High output MC. Then you might be able to get away with out one.

Grumpy

Thanks for the replys Gone Fishin & Grumpy,

I really only have £500 at the very max, but i would like to spend about £200.

D.I.Y im really not sure about, ive done a faire bit of wood work, but never soldered.

I have considered going new, but not one intergrated ive seen has an internal phono stage. If i did go new i would not be able to afford to get one. I also fear at this price it may not be as musically rewarding either.

Going secong hand means i can sell it later on, to upgrade or if i just dont like it, and recupe my money.

Ill use an MM cart with the TT.

Regards, :)

Since you are in England you might want to look for a Leak. Good amps but not positive there is an integrated. I have only seen one but 220V amps are not common in the US. It is not integrated.

Any luck in your search yet?

Hi BB,

SixCats! here. Welcome. I am pleased that you found some of my TUBE questions/posting helpful. This site has one heck of a bunch of nice, knowledgable guys that have been most willing to help me with EXCELLENT suggestions and advice (and per your post) helpful to others as well (as I had hoped). It sounds like you and I are kind of in the same boat (sort to speak). I hope you find yourself a nice amp! I too am still looking and keeping open ALL options. I was thinking about up dating my ALLIED Tube Receiver but...just moments ago (early Friday evening) I found my ALLIED (which must weight over 30 lbs.) KNOCKED OVER BACKWARDS (from it's position atop three other components) and landed on the table! I don't know if any damage was done. How one of my Cats did this I will never understand! I may be soon changing my name to FIVE CATS! . Keep us posted.

SixCats!

Hello,

Ive looked into Leak, espically at the sterio 20 power amp. I figured that the is the posibility of just getting a power amp at first, and using the pre amp section of my Nad 3020, so i can have a phono stage and tape loop. The sterio 20 would either need rebuilding or cost a lot rebuilt, it may be just possible to get a new SET power amp tho.

Im not really sure of the logistics of this, like what is the biggest contribution to the sound of the 3020 the pre or power sections? Will an SS/tube combination work? Will i actualy experience the true SET sound?

Im also looking into Hammer Dynamics Super 12s, there seems to be a great deal of enthusiasm, support, and information espically on tweaks. The full range driver aspect to the design is great im very interested to hear how they sound.

A system costing little but which i can tweek out inexpensively is very appealing.

Any thoughts on this would be very welcome.

:) Regards.

I thought I'd jump in and mention that I have only heard one pair of Hammer Dynamic speakers, and they had been modded, some of the mods being expensive. At the same gathering, I also heard a Pi-2. No comparison! The inexpensive Pi-2 just blew away the Hammers. The Hammers were lacking in detail, too laid back, and had soft, almost mushy bass. I haven't heard stock Hammers, but from what I've read, most owners end up modding them. It's just hard to believe that any speaker sounding as bad as the one I heard could have come from a great speaker. The Pi-2's were clean and tight, with good detail.

As for integrated amps, check out old Heathkits if you can find them. Many can be used with either 117 or 220 volts. Most have excellent iron in them. The hard wired ones are better then the newer printed circuit ones.
Just my two pence worth,
Dave

Thank you for youre post Herdy gerdyman,

I had not read any comparisons between the two speakers. I must ask if the Hammer Dynamics were the Super 12s (i think there have been different models?) Were they both using the same components upstreem, and was it a general consensus?

I get the impression the 4 pis are better than the 2 pis (more dynamic and extended), but im worried about the intergration between the horn and driver. Mabey this is not an issue, its just very hard to make desicions with out hearing, and with little knowlidge.

I will also do some research on Heathkit.

Thanks to everyone for the help.

Just a heads up on buying anything stateside is that about 2 years ago it cost $140 to mail a Dyna ST-70 from Texas to England. I know you are limited budget and as much as I love some of the gear made here I can't see you spending 20% of your budget on shipping. The voltage is just a part of it though if you can pick up an isolation type step down transformer it might be worth going US built gear.
As far as the Hammer goes I have a transmission line made with basically the same driver it is very limited and the design I use avoids many of the problems about putting the driver in a box.
I would suggest that you go for some vintage Goodman's or Tannoys to match up with a British amp. The money you save in postage would pay for buying better gear locally.
Keep us posted.

>I had not read any comparisons between the two speakers. I must ask if the Hammer Dynamics were the Super 12s (i think there have been different models?) Were they both using the same components upstreem, and was it a general consensus?<

I'm not sure which Hammer it was. It had a tall bass reflex box with a small tweeter in front of main 12 inch driver. The concensus was unaninmus. The Hammers was polite and lifeless, while the Pi-2 was dynamic, quick and sounded very musical. There was over a dozen audiophiles there to listen.
This is not to say a stock Hammer would sound that way, as I've not heard a stock one.
Dave

:)
Here's a link to the fest I was at, with details and pictures.

http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=General&action=display&num=1036374248

Hello,

I happened to mention someone had suggested Goodmans speakers to my mother, she said that there an old paire in the kitchen attic. So i get the ladder pulldown these 2 little boxes and find 2 Goodmans Axiom 10 cones, and in great condition!

My mother says they were bought in 71 or 72. The boxes say 'for use with amplifiers up to 20 watts. Frequency range 40 - 18000 cps. 8 Ohm' I have also found this little piece of information, 'They are 10 inch twin cone drivers with three strut cast baskets and alnico magnets. They have very compliant suspensions. The main cone is gold coloured paper and the wizzer is black. They are 15/16 ohm aluminum coils......Another fan gave me data from a package lable giving enclosure dimensions which said they needed a cabinet of 45 liters sealed.'

Maby i should have posted this at the speaker forum, but it seemed like such luck i thought id post it here, hopefully it may save me a few houndred £s :p:

Any information on these speakers would be most welcome, if they are all ok but are not very high quality i will still build them, just so i can hear them.

Regards.

Ps thank you Thatch if you hadent posted that i wouldnt have found these:D

Goodmans have a great reputation, and the high impedance will go good with most tube amps. Do a search or ask questions here to get more info on them.

http://f18.parsimony.net/forum31999/

If they are suitable, I would think about using them in a TQWP. Great bang for the buck, much more open sound then a small closed box. :cool:

Dave

:):cool:

Hello Dave,

Thanks for the link, i couldnt find much in a search but have posted asking for information.

''If they are suitable, I would think about using them in a TQWP. Great bang for the buck, much more open sound then a small closed box''

Sorry im not sure what you mean by TQWP, are you refering to an open baffel design. If so i would be interested in hearing any ideas.

I dont know if Goodmans issued designs with these drivers.

Anyway at the moment im still in amazement at my good fortune :eek:

Regards, and thank you for youre time :) .

TQWP, TQWT, TQWL and Voigt Pipe. Means Tapered Quarter Wave Pipe (Tube or Line). It's an enclosure that is part transmission line and part rear loaded horn. It has the most open midrange I've heard and great, effortless bass. More info on Fullrange Driver Forum and Single Driver website. These are worth looking into.
Dave:)

Great news on those Goodmans and that they are full range of high quality. They ought to be great in some Voights which are fairly simple to build and sound great. Now you really need a tube rig to get the best out of those speakers. And a SET would do it. If you want I can get you in touch with a tranformer winder over there that does the windings for an amp builder here in Dallas,Tx. I have heard a number of amps that have his transformers in them and can tell you they are of highest quality.
He might also have some kits, like one for the Mullard 3.3 amp. If you are using CD or FM you don't need a preamp with these monoblocks.

Hello,

Yes a TQWP design sounds really good. I have only done a little research on it so far. What sort of information is needed to work out weather the drivers will be subitable? Ill phone up Goodmans, and speak to a friend of my mothers who used to work for Celestion, to try and find out more details.

Im not sure how i would get the dimentions for a Voigt Pipe, are the any sites giving calculations to work them out corresponding to the drivers specifications?

Tubes are a must now, but i will wait untill i know what im doing with the Goodmans before i can work out my budget and start really thinking about them. This does save me some money tho so getting a SET amp should be possible.

Cheers :cool: , Thanks for the support.

A speaker with a Qts of between .35 and 0.7 is best, though lower or higher can also work.

Here's a link to a good spreadsheet to try.

http://melhuish.org/audio/links.htm#diylinks

Scroll down to Software Tools for speakers & horns. Click on John Rutter's TQWP spreadsheet. You can then download a good spreadsheet for calculating a TQWP that will suit your speaker. Just replace your drivers specs with the ones there in blue.
Dave
:)

Hello,

Hey Thatch, looking at shiping costs for the Bottlehead pre/power ect... It seems as tho im going to spend £100 on shiping, then get a transformer £40? and maby even pay for customs duties. This is really out of the question. So im quite interested in what you said about someone you know in the UK who it seems could sort me out with a kit. I think im on a budget for around £500, maby a bit more. If this is a possibility please let me know.

Oh yes i read some where that sets dont like speakers with changing impeadences, these as far as i know change from 15-16 ohm. The box says 8 Ohm tho too?

Gerdyman could you explain what Qt is? Im not sure if Goodmans is able to supply me with this information. Im still trying to find out more about the speakers, someone has givern me the encloseures Internal dimentions provided by Goodmans. They are inclosed and very small. I have read someone saying the Axiom 80 Design Goodmans issued were not at all satisfying, i think ill build these if the TQWP idea hits a brick wall. Unfortunatly i cant open either of the TQWP programs on the Single driver WS, because i dont have the software to run them.

Regards, and thanks for any help :p:

bb.

Qts is the speakers damping factor. This figure is usuall given in the specs of modern speakers. With older vintage ones it can be hard to find. Chances are, your speaker would work ok in a TQWP. You need to know the resonance frequency, though, to get the right pipe length.
Dave:)

Humm as i have descovered, answers to one question present another:) . A few months ago i was just considering getting a Rega p3 and Rega brio amp......now im looking at building TQWPs for vintage speakers and building kit tube amps, and driving my mother (and possible myself) crazy in the process :D :rolleyes:.....
This is very much a learning process....

Read this. I had a pair of these for many months with a volume pot put in them so I could go directly from CD player to amp. If you are going to use vinyl you will have to get a preamp or at least a phono section. The price could be just for the transformers but could be a complete kit. Only the transformers are available here.

<http://audioreview.com/Amplifiers/Mullar,Mullard,3-3/PRD_115975_1583crx.aspx>