MY new avatar - The F-16I Thunderstorm

[mg196]

Thought I would throw this out there...saw someone else was bored and did the same thing!

The Israeli F-16I "Sufa" is essentially the American F-16's more agile and deadlier twin. It has greater weapons-carrying capacity than the F-16, a larger radius of operation, and completely upgraded systems hardware.

[nevermind]

Sorry but i like more this colours.

[Sandy G]

The Israelis have a long history of "hot-rodding" planes they get from us. Ain't nothin' wrong w/that.-Sandy G.

[mg196]

Nevermind, what the hell are you talking about? Colours? Who was talking about colours?

OH! You must be talking about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict! Stupid Me!!

This wasn't intended to be a politcal thread. That kind of argumentative crap doesn't belong here. Take that Bullshit to AA where it belongs, or go to your local pub and discuss it w/ friends. With confrontational idiocy like you posted in my thread, you won't make many friends here.

I will say that I am pleased that the Portuguese Decree of 1497, ordering the expulsion or forced conversion of Jews, was revoked in 1996 by Portuguese Parliament. Only 500 years...How progressive!!

[mg196]

The Israelis have a long history of "hot-rodding" planes they get from us. Ain't nothin' wrong w/that.-Sandy G.

Yo Sandy, it is interesting to see how different countries modify our stuff. The Israelis don't have huge aircraft carriers (nor do they have the need) to use as mobile bases around the world. Apparently, the F-16I is capable of round trip flights to Libya & Iran (from Israel) without refueling. America has no need to carry that much fuel!

Check out this difference in Max Takeoff Weight:

F-16: 37,500 lbs
F-16I: 47,000 lbs

And flight radius:

F-16: 1,370 (max)
F-16I: 2,100 (max)

[nevermind]

Sorry mg ,i did not know that you are Jewish. My Grandfather came from Palestine and it was not my intention to hurt your feelings.
But ,i must remind you the words of Thor - in Off Topic - the rules here is there are no rules. :naughty:
...And let me tell you this:
In this precise moment are more than 200.000 people in Edimburg,Scotland in a rally for more Peace in the world,and you choose for your new avatar a killing machine... :yikes:

Shalom.

[mg196]

Nevermind, I chose for my avatar a jet fighter. Period. And also, you should read the threads a little more carefully, because there are NO political discussions. Period. Anywhere on the site. If you don't believe me, check the final post on this thread: http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24467&highlight=politics

This is a thread talking about a plane I think is cool...specifically how one country takes American technology and fits it to suit their needs. It is not a political battleground nor a place to air ideologies. :cry:

It does not matter to me what religion people are here or what political parties they belong to. I am here to talk and communicate with fellow AK'ers, NOT be confrontational. :thumbsdn:

Peace comes in many different forms. I am done with you and I am done discussing this. Now back to the F-16I...

[WhiteSE]

that is a cool plane...it seems to have some addition to the area where the wing meets the body, on the sides behind the cockpit....like where the latest F-15's added their fuel. It almost looks like a Mig 25 without the dual tail//

[Mark B]

Doesn't anyone read the Forum Rules?

FYI there is a link titled Forum Rules right under the DONATE Button in Audiokarma Showcase which is displayed near the top of the screen when you're in Audiokarma.org Discussion Forums.

[elroymcgee]

hey mg196, you ever hard about 40 second boyd. An awesome story about a guy who joins the Airforce, fly jet fighters, figures out mathematical equations to equal flight dinamics, and how a plane fly's in a certain aerodynamic profile, would recommend the book called "boyd"

anyway, always like the f16, but am kinda partial to the hogs, you know the swept wing planes.. f-14 and the f-111, mainly the f14 caus it looks bad, and I do kknow that an f-16 can fly circles around an f-14, its just that almost hunched over its wheelwell look that i like.

but i'd take f-16 that's been modified by the israeli's anyday, most people know that they do a great job with there flying abiility, thier flying is ranked right up there.

Do you think it is there training or the modifications to the aircraft???

[2DualsNotEnough]

I was stationed at a fighter squadron the last 4 years in the Air Force,and my dorm was about 200 yards from where the F-16's took off.There are few things more beautiful than watching the glow from a 16 taking off,right around sunset. :thmbsp:
Jimmy

[mg196]

Do you think it is there training or the modifications to the aircraft???

I would have to say training. Historically, Israel always had to make do with far inferior aircraft to their enemy (mostly the Egyptian AF - trained and supplied by the Soviets). Just imagine, in 1948 the IAF was made up of a bunch of old civilian aircraft converted for military use, a couple dozen Avia S-199's (Czech built from the remnants of the Luftwaffe), and 50+ Spitfires. And they RULED THE SKIES!!

Since 1948, enemy:Israeli air to air losses (dogfights) is an incredible 687:23!!!

Training, training, training! Women lead many (if not most) of the training. The IAF has found that women make better instructors than men. I am not sure if women are active IAF pilots, though.


I worked on an IAF base for a short time, and it was a very enlightening experience. Even though these guys are the most elite military pilots in the world, everything is so casual! Officers and new recruits walk around in the same clothes, call each other by their first names, there is nobody saluting higher ranks (during day to day operations on the base, anyways). It is much different than the American military. Perhaps because there has been a constant state of war over the last 50 years, they feel there are more important things to do than worry about "Yes SIR! No SIR!"

EDIT: I am on ePay now lookin' for "Boyd!"

[Kamakiri]

Sorry mg ,i did not know that you are Jewish. My Grandfather came from Palestine and it was not my intention to hurt your feelings.
But ,i must remind you the words of Thor - in Off Topic - the rules here is there are no rules. :naughty:
...And let me tell you this:
In this precise moment are more than 200.000 people in Edimburg,Scotland in a rally for more Peace in the world,and you choose for your new avatar a killing machine... :yikes:

Shalom.

Somebody didn't click the "FORUM RULES" icon......

Time for a time out......ignoring the BS, we now place this thread back on topic :)

[Sandy G]

I wonder what the Israelis coulda done w/an SR-71....<grin> -Sandy G.

[mg196]

Does anyone know if the USAF has purchased or incorporates any Israeli military avionics in US fighter jets?

[mg196]

I wonder what the Israelis coulda done w/an SR-71....<grin> -Sandy G.

I found this online:

Israel was clearly very interested in the F-4X, as it promised a a performance which would approach that of the USAF's SR-71. This would enable it to fly unimpeded anywhere it wanted to. However, the advanced performance of the F-4X clearly made it a possible candidate for a new interceptor. Consequently, the US State Department became more than a little worried about the export of such advanced technology overseas, since it promised to give Israel a potential interceptor which was more capable than anything currently in the US arsenal, one which might one day pose a threat to the SR-71. In addition, the Air Force was itself rather nervous about the F-4X project, since it might threaten to divert support away from the F-15 program which was just then getting underway. As a result, the State Department decided to disallow export of this technology to Israel.

Sources:
-McDonnell Douglas Aircraft Since 1920: Volume II, Rene J. Francillon, Naval Institute Press, 1990.
-McDonnell F-4 Phantom: Spirit in the Skies. Airtime Publishing, 1992.
-The American Fighter, Enzo Angelucci and Peter Bowers, Orion, 1987.

[WhiteSE]

I would doubt if nothing else for political reasons....I think any foreign used part or system, has gone thru a bid process//

[elroymcgee]

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/boyd_books.htm

a short web site of some basics of John Boyd

[Sandy G]

Well, since the SR-71 is nigh on to 50 yr old technology now, I'm sure the Israelis could duplicate one if they desired..Their own airplanes ain't exactly chopped liver, you know, and a lot of the planes we "sell" 'em are actually made there. That's one reason they're so easily able to "hot-rod" 'em...Yeah, seems like I remember there was/is an Israeli avionics company that made stuff for our planes too...there's really nothing in aviation that's truly "secret"-pilots LOVE to brag, wether they're bragging about the 1946 Luscombe they just restored, or the latest Mach X fighter.-Sandy G.

[markthefixer]

IMHO when the sr-71 blackbird was retired from recon missions, there must have been some sort of adequate replacement, to do otherwise borders on criminal stupidity. Also IMHO the area 51 stuff was actually the production, testing and training area of the f-117a stealth program. The dies for the parts production of the sr-71 were supposedly destroyed, and the titaniun is an absolute b***h to work with, with some really weird but in retrospect understandable chemical reactions. I feel a lot of vital experience was lost after the production runs were done, just like we lost a lot of ground after the end of the apollo program and the engineers moved on (and died).
Try to imagine what a 5 to 10 year leap in technology would do/be. That is the usual timeline of technology releases from the intelligence community to the civillian sector. Then there is the misleading disinformation.
My assesment: 50/50 chance of non-us sr-71 or better.

[Sandy G]

There's a whole bunch of "twice-told tales" about the Blackbyrd-maybe true, maybe not, so who knows ? One is that there was so much airframe distortion by the tremendous heat generated, they never could adequately seal the fuel tanks, & SR-71s all had to be refueled almost immediately after takeoff. Another was that they used something called JP-7 fuel, which was very non-volatile.Supposedly, it was pumped thru the plane to try to help cool the airframe, used as a heat-sink. The one I liked was the tale that the big cones on the front of the motors, which faced inward & down when the plane was on the ground, stood out straight in flight because of the aforementioned heat distortion. The barmiest was that Kelly Johnson was really an alien-how else would he design a plane that was that advanced for 1955-60-after all, jets had only been around then for 15 years...-Sandy G.

[mg196]

Did the SR-71 utilize "expanding" tiles on the skin of the craft like the Stealth? From what I have heard, fuel seeps out until the Stealth reaches a particular speed, at which the skin heats up and expands, creating a true seal. Or is that just rumor as well?

[WhiteSE]

The SR-71 also suffered from leakage when on the ground.

[piece-it pete]

I used to be into this stuff (so long ago, it seems), iirc it used at least 1/2 it's fuel on the ground, much lost, yes expanding pieces, and also the fuel is some sort of parriffin.

I'm surprised we don't use it to intimidate even now, the thing looks so awesome. I too believe: those dies aren't destroyed, and there is something much better out there. Could be wrong!

Pete

[Sandy G]

Uh, yeah...the SR-71 dates to 1962 & I think its safe to say they've made a few improvements in aircraft technology since the Kennedy (!) Administration..There's that little thing called "Aurora" that refuses to go away..but it's been around for a good 20 yrs or so now. I knew a boy in college who'd been in the Air Force, he'd been where they had SR-71s, said they always landed coming out of the sun,where you couldn't see 'em too well, went straight into a hangar & the doors were slammed shut. They weren't even supposed to look at 'em. Once he overheard one that was on "finals"-the SR-71 was over Africa. About 30 minutes later, he said the Blackbyrd was on the ground & in it's hangar. I'm sure Toasted Almond has some SR-71 stories he could relate, but then he'd have to kill all of us...-Sandy G.

[markthefixer]

Ben rich?? kelly johnsons eventual boss and instigator of the stealth wrote a book about his time at lockheed and has many interesting details....
u2, sr-71 stealth etc...
would know book name better , author name etc... but book is
on loan to a buddy in dallas... i'm near chicago.
It was titled something like "skunk works"

ah haaa at amazon (paperback)

"Skunk Works : A Personal Memoir of My Years of Lockheed ,by Leo Janos, Ben R. Rich "It's August 1979 on the scorching Nevada desert, where Marines armed with ground-to-air Hawk missiles are trying to score a "kill" against my new airplane,..."

With my electronics/physics background and reading this book I was able to infer some stuff about the stealth... military open house years ago had stealth on display and i was talking to crew and pilots... (after 1st gulf war)
I quietly mentioned a few details (informed speculations) to the guys and they almost **** a brick.... told them about my background and the book and they relaxed (a little).

So the book is reasonable... although the possibility of disinformation is high.

[markthefixer]

ohh right on about the sr-71 fuel leaks but the stealth dosen't leak fuel.... radically different operating enviornment.
aurora/senior citizen (methane hypersonic pulse jet) got some speculation years ago, but things have quieted down the last few years...