Well, the unit played great for a few days and now the right spool will stop taking up tape without warning! It will be playing great for 5 minutes and then it will stop. If I give it a little tap it will quickly take up the slack and keep spinning.

PLEASE tell me this is a lube issue, and if so, how should I lube - from the outside in, vice versa or both?

I KNOW it is not the belts, as fresh ones were just installed - along with the idler rubber wheel.

Have you watched it with the cover off?

Try playing it with a tape you don't care much about and run it
with the cover off and see if you can witness what might be slipping.

At least double check that all the belts are still in their grooves.

Sometimes it helps to clean the grooves of the pulley as well as the
surface the tire contacts as well.

Hope this helps!

Scott

Well, I shipped it out to someone to replace the belts because that's beyond my capabilities. However, the tech said the motor seemed to be a bit slow. I blasted it w/ DeOxit and followed up w/ ProGold. We'll see how that does.

More to come...

Well (not to jinx myself), but so far so good. The tech had cleaned out the motor and I'm assuming lubed it a bit. So, until I decide to bother with replacing the motor, I will probably have to continue to routinely DeOx/ProGold.

I am NEVER going to purchase another deck. This one is physically a 9.9 out of 10, and replacing a motor down the line is worth it to me.

EDIT: Well, I think this is purely a motor issue. It's no coincidence that I have played one full cassette A & B sides without it stopping. This unit sat for YEARS before I picked it up from the seller, so perhaps with weekly lubings for the next month or so it will perform even better.

I'm starting to see that on a 950, flushing it seemed to help, I hope the motor in my parts machine is good. There's a guy on ebay that rebuilds the motors. Good luck with it.
Steve

Could be a motor problem. I think there is a tech out there that someone here used to recondition thier CT-F1000 motor. But it seems the 1250 motor's case cannot be opened without destroying the case itself. I could be wrong.
One thing to check as I also had this problem after spending 5 hours replacing belts. Check the pressure from the idler. What usually happens is there is not enough pressure on the right hand side hub drive coming from the idler. Also run a tape with the faceplate off preferebly a clear case cassette and see if your idler belt(tire) is actually slipping on the idler wheel. Some of the new idler belts do not fit as snug as the original. If it is slipping remove the idler belt and use a few dabs of black silicone in three spots around the wheel. Reinstall the belt and see what happens. If you are still having trouble you may have to remove the hub assemblies and lubricate them as the lube in them becomes dry and useless over the years. Also the idler assembly may need to be disassembled lubed and reinstalled. Once you get the idler to perform correctly (which is not exactly an easy fix) the deck will perform flawlessly. :yes:

Thanks MP,

Flushing it with DeOx/ProG definitely did the trick. It played 3 full cassette sides and then I hit the sheets for the night. As for the motor, are those the only lubes I should be using, or is there a better, longer-term product I could buy?

I KNOW it is not the belts, as fresh ones were just installed - along with the idler rubber wheel.

I wish I could say that statement is correct but the pile of decks I have with new belts and good motors tell me the contrary. Whether we like it or not pretty much all the replacement belts available for any deck are no longer original and any claim to the contrary is just, well... They may look the same but in many cases they are not and while some machines may work fine some others won't. The idler is a particularly problematic part and likely to be the cause of the problem. Having said that the motor could always be the culprit but it is possible the idler may be just a touch too small. Cleaning the take up reel should be the first thing to try and then try to suplement the idler by wrapping under the idler (around the wheel) a piece of thin paper. However excessive or uneven suplement will result in damaged tapes.

Well, let me explain what leads me to believe it is the motor.

When I found the deck, the take-up reel would not work. Period. As I would do with any deck that is over 20 years old, I replaced the belts.

The tech who replaced the belts mentioned the motor was running a little slow before shipping it back to me. It played great for a few days unitl I had the problem which led me to start this thread. Emergency!!

I opened it up and watched everything closely. I saw the take-up reel really struggling. I sprayed the motor as well as I could (using up the last of my DeOxit in the process) and the deck has run smooth as silk since then. It has played without a hitch since!

Click and Clack have a saying. I can't remember the Latin phrase (who cares?) but the English translation is: If it follows, it must be so.
Motors with brushes build up crud on the commutator of the motor and it gets a bad spot where it won't turn. Spraying inside the motor cleans the commutator and voila, it works. You cleaned it and it now works, therefore it must have been the motor.

Click and Clack are hilarious. We also have this guy named Goss, from the DC area. He's a total dick.

As I've mentioned in my earlier post the motor could have been the cause. The tech who changed the belts could have save you the problem and the spary -since he noticed the slow speed too- by spraying himself but in anycase I am glad it worked for you. Sorry, I didn't meant to irritate you by pointing out the fact that most belts available are not original. I will crawl under my rock now, period.

As I've mentioned in my earlier post the motor could have been the cause. The tech who changed the belts could have save you the problem and the spary -since he noticed the slow speed too- by spraying himself but in anycase I am glad it worked for you. Sorry, I didn't meant to irritate you by pointing out the fact that most belts available are not original. I will crawl under my rock now, period.
No, You are correct. Flat belts especially are sometimes not cut with as much precision as the originals. They seem to last as long though. The square belts don't seem to last as long as originals, and idler wheel tires are sometimes really poor.
With Pioneer, you can do some stuff to make the new idler tires last longer. The take up clutch should be taken apart and cleaned, then I cut a turn off the spring to reduce the take up torque; it's really much more than necessary the way Pioneer made it. (CTF 850, CTF900, etc.)
Then you roughen the take up reel hub with sandpaper to make the idler grip better. Lastly the spring that applies the force to the idler wheel gets tightened. Generally speaking these measures will help most cassette decks. I like it best when the take up torque is adjusted electronically.

By spraying the motor, he may have cooled a component inside the motor. Usually a capacitor. Monitor the voltage to the motor. Also, try playing the deck without a tape while monitoring the voltage. Check the function of the counter belt and play idler wheel along with the pinch roller. On older VCRs that had sealed DD motors, I used to spray Blue Shower into the shaft. It did get rid of the dried up gunk. If you can open the motor, let us know.
Ron

I had my CT-F 1250 rebuilt by a guy in Salt Lake City, motors and all, and it works perfectly and sounds superb. I cn give you his e-mail address if you want. His name is Thomas Posse.

I take the spool motors apart on my tape decks and clean them and lube them, as a matter of course, when sweetening decks up. It's not that hard, but a bit scarey, since the motors are made of unobtainium. It's a little tricky to get the outer shell off, but, if you are very patient and careful (being in a hurry will always bite you with this kind of thing), you will do fine. They will go back together quite easily. I clean up the brushes and the commutator contact surfaces, burnish the contacts in the centrifugal switches that regulate speed and torque, lube the shaft bushings, and all work great. No failures yet. The CT-F900, CT-F950, and CT-F1250 all use the same motor for the spool drive, and they do seem to develop problems after decades of use.

P.S. I have not disassembled a capstan motor for these units, and till I do, I cannot recommend their disassembly. The 1250 uses quartz phase lock loop speed control, and, I won't mess with that till I have to.

Enjoy,
Rich P

I take the spool motors apart on my tape decks and clean them and lube them, as a matter of course, when sweetening decks up. It's not that hard, but a bit scarey, since the motors are made of unobtainium. It's a little tricky to get the outer shell off, but, if you are very patient and careful (being in a hurry will always bite you with this kind of thing), you will do fine. They will go back together quite easily. I clean up the brushes and the commutator contact surfaces, burnish the contacts in the centrifugal switches that regulate speed and torque, lube the shaft bushings, and all work great. No failures yet. The CT-F900, CT-F950, and CT-F1250 all use the same motor for the spool drive, and they do seem to develop problems after decades of use.

P.S. I have not disassembled a capstan motor for these units, and till I do, I cannot recommend their disassembly. The 1250 uses quartz phase lock loop speed control, and, I won't mess with that till I have to.

Enjoy,
Rich P
I agree with Rich. On my Teac R2R machines, I do disassemble the motors about once every 10 years or so. Just did my A-6100 MK II. At 7.5 and 15 IPS, the motors are dead silent.
Anyway, if you don't see any screws on your motor, better not to mess with it.
Ron

OK, I am reviving this thread for an important reason: A fellow AK'er is repairing this baby right now.

jblmar, thanks for taking this on! I am going to post his progression here and everyone can chime in if they have suggestions. If anyone has schematics for a CT-F1250, we wholeheartedly request 'em! I have the manual, but for some reason jblmar was unable to read the files I sent. I think!

Here are jblmar's comments on the deck as he has been working on it:

Great job of packing! I didn't get a chance to contact you last night because I started on the deck. There's a lot of DeOxit in the transport section that has to be cleaned out. I did find that the counter belt was in really bad shape. I had a close match and replaced it. The counter now works along with Play, RR & FF. The tape did stop after about 25 minutes in the play mode, but the problem is now isolated. The problem(s) are in the transport section. Mechanical, not electronic. Next, I'll remove the transport, clean the DeOxit out and check the idler wheel. I'll let you know the condition of the idler and belts. You should be back in business soon.

It appears to be a transport problem. You'll have a 100% working machine! I would replace the belts in the transport section. The Deoxit may have degraded the stabilizers in the rubber. I'll check the capstan belt(s) tomorrow. I'll try to contact Pioneer today or Monday. Don't use any belts other than the original Pioneer, unless they're NLA. Have a nice weekend and don't worry about the deck. It will be fine.

I removed the idler assembly today. Cleaned the idler, belts and surrounding area. The deck would play for a somewhat longer time before stopping.

Later, I removed the idler assembly, replaced it without the retaining ring. This was to see how the deck reacts when the idler is placed in one position - Play & FF position. The deck plays the entire side without stopping. FF is strong till the end of the tape. When the idler is now moved by hand to the rewind position, it rewinds fine as well. It appears to be both the take-up belt and idler. The motor is fine. I tested it by removing the drive belt.

Anyway, I'll check with Pioneer Monday for the above parts. Getting there slowly, but making progress.

The deck plays, ff & rewinds. The ff mode is a bit slow and the deck does stop at times, but it's better than before.

I had the deck in play for about 30 minutes when it went into stop. The display went out as well as the function lights and drive motor.. It appears that a component in the power supply went south. I did notice, and I mentioned it to you yesterday, that the motor would stop if I pressed on the belt. The motor should resume once I let go. It didn't.

Anyway, the PS problem shouldn't be more that an inconvience. However, I need the schematic to trace the line out to the effected drives. We need to start a new thread on AK for the schematic. Another headache. When you get a chance, start a thread on the Tape & Pioneer forum. I can post it, but it will have to wait for tomorrow. Don't worry, we're getting there.

Well, that is it for now. Everyone chime in if you have any ideas!!! Thanks everyone.

Just to add some more information on the electrical problem.
The transport LEDs are out as well as the display and drive motor. The deck went out suddenly when in the play mode after appx. 30 minutes on. I believe that a diode or voltage regularor is at fault since there are 3 effected areas. The counter display is still functioning. The capstans rotate when power is applied.
TIA

Ron

CT-F900, CT-F950, CT-F1250 all use the same reel motor. At this point in their life, they all need to be rebuilt (clean, lube, brush shape and pressure, armature contact surface, etc.). Just spraying from outside, may appear to work, but will not yield long term results. They can be disassembled, but be careful. The indication of the need is: repeatedly, stop the motor, outside the transport, their should be good startup torque, and run torque. If the motor ever fails to restart, there you go...

Rich P

Yea Rich, I did notice that I had to spin the motor pully at times to get it going in Play. I took off the belt and tryed the motor alone. Torque was fine, but I was uncomfortable with the motor needing a "push".
Ron

Hey guys, I have the service manual open in front of me and I need to figure out which schematic is for the Power Supply (yeah, I am a TOTAL newbie when it comes to these things). Jblmar received a copy of the PS from a fellow AK'er, but apparently it shows fuses, which mine lacks. What page is it on?! Or better yet, if you could post it in this forum, that would be primo.

Michael

Here is a gift - Control Circuit schematic:

Problem solved! Defective Zener Diode in the power supply cut off voltage to the circuit. With the schematic, the repair took a very short time.
A very special thanks goes out to Rich (pustelniakr) for supplying the power supply schematic. I suggested to Michael that we send the motor along to Rich so that he can do his magic and restore it.
Ron

Great job guys! :thmbsp:

Love to see another Pioneer up and running... :yes:

Just curious... what led you to the power supply area with an electronic issue when you
originally thought it was a transport problem?

Scott

Just curious... what led you to the power supply area with an electronic issue when you originally thought it was a transport problem?

Hey SPL, here is what jbl said, "I had the deck in play for about 30 minutes when it went into stop. The display went out as well as the function lights and drive motor.. It appears that a component in the power supply went south. I did notice, and I mentioned it to you yesterday, that the motor would stop if I pressed on the belt. The motor should resume once I let go. It didn't."

Hey SPL, here is what jbl said, "I had the deck in play for about 30 minutes when it went into stop. The display went out as well as the function lights and drive motor.. It appears that a component in the power supply went south. I did notice, and I mentioned it to you yesterday, that the motor would stop if I pressed on the belt. The motor should resume once I let go. It didn't."

DUH!

I guess it helps if I read the entire thread now doesn't it! :rolleyes:

Scott :thmbsp:

SPL,
One had nothing to do with the other. The diode just went bad.
Ron

I had my CT-F 1250 rebuilt by a guy in Salt Lake City, motors and all, and it works perfectly and sounds superb. I cn give you his e-mail address if you want. His name is Thomas Posse.

Okay, what's his e-mail address?

the guy you want is actually in tucson, and he can be reached right here on AK-- just send a PM to member Pustelniakr. he'll fix ya up, and he's a front line AK'er of impeccable credentials, and his B-day is today, too...