Gorgeous Organ!!

[scolba]

I was up in Chicago at my nephew's babtism, and the curch had one of the most beautiful organ and pipes that i have ever seen!! The key's really caught my eye!!!

Check out the pics here. Sorry they are dark, but if you follow the link you can see it better.
http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=56mv.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=49iv.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=30yg.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=20hy.jpg
http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13qz.jpg

[markthefixer]

Hey ..... that's a Trackker organ.... not that many around.

Worked on the Chicago Theater's WurliTzer (Opus 434) restoration phase one..... That was a relay system.

Witnessed the installation of a Trakker in Chicago in the mid 70's..

[dingus]

oh geez, i thought you were waaaaaaaaaayyyyyy off topic for a minute.

[markthefixer]

dingus: I don't understand, :dunno:

[scolba]

Geo Tracker maybe???? I don't get it either....lol

Whats with the wooden keys? why are the colors (ok the general tone of the keys) inverted?

[markthefixer]

OK I get both of them, Dingus was referring to a different definition of the word organ... an adult definition....

Trakker .... well I thought you might be into Pipe Organs...

Two types... Relay has electrical contacts, to wiring, to "magnets" (electromagnets) that open up air valves to make each pipe make sound....
Older relay systems were wired somewhat like a small telephone exchange!!!


Trakker has a direct mechanical connection to each air valve from the keyboard.

The difference is the time delay between pressing the key on the keyboard and the sound actually occurring...
Trakker is fast, opens the valve directly....
relay takes time to energize the magnet and to move the valve.

Talk about a disconnect between what you are doing and what you are hearing.

[scolba]

i bet! so if its a direct connection, how do the ones in the balcony work??

sadly, i actually am into organs....i love em, i love how they sound, but i don't know shit about them. lol....

huh huh...i said organ. im actually kind of amazed that i didnt' get the whole anatomical organ thing....my mind is typically in the gutter anyway! :D

[markthefixer]

I didn't look at all the pictures... Too dark on my monitor, was going to import them and brighten em tomorrow to look. I inferred from what I did see, the inline nature of the construction. If there is a separate unit that is physically disconnected from the rest.. well then I'm wrong about that one...

edit: AH HAH, That is the Our Lady of Mount Carmel Organ.... I looked at the Visser-Rowland site.. and there it was.... 690 w Belmont it is one of TWO that they have, thus that is a SECOND organ in the balcony, a restored original unaltered Skinner organ. Whatta place......
end edit:

But the one in Chicago at Addison and New England is definately a trakker.

Tha Chicago Theater organ had some pipes that were so large that they had to be designed folded for the chamber. Makes some of the massive speaker pictures I have seen here look like mere juveniles....

[2DualsNotEnough]

I always loved the organ at Kings College Chapel,in Cambridge,England.
Oh,and the building aint too shabby,either.
http://www.beenthere-donethat.org.uk/cambridgeshire/cambridge16big.html

[markthefixer]

I quite accidently visited the famous Wanamakers Organ in Philadelphia, was going to a function in the building when I heard the daily 45 minute recitals that they put on.

I had not connected the address of the function I was attending with the fame and name of the building.. needless to say, I never made it to the function. I had an opportunity to play it briefly, but declined, preferring to watch someone far more qualified.

But I was unable to view the "works". With the time frame I was in town and the connections I previously had, that could have happened... had I remembered.

Quoting:

Now a National Historic Landmark and valued in excess of $50 million, the Wanamaker Organ is of the American Symphonic design, which can play the great organ masterworks, as well as the entire range of orchestral literature.The organ has 6 manuals (keyboards), about 457 ranks, and over 28,000 pipes. The console weighs 2.5 tons; the entire organ weighs 287 tons. It is a monument to superb craftsmanship.

Thirty-six regulators furnish steady wind pressure from five to twenty-seven inches. The organ is electro-pneumatic throughout, requiring seven blowers totaling 168 horsepower.

End Quote:

It has woodworking the DIY'ers here would certainly appreciate, along with everything else.
168 horsepower..... how many watts is that??????? :naughty:

[merrylander]

That organ is by Visser Rowland (as can be clearly seen in the photo of the manuals) and has mechanical key action and electrical stop action - note the pushbuttons above the keys. Mecahanical key action (Trakker) with pipes that far from the manuals reminds me of a comment made by an organist who played such an instrument that "You press the key and then go and have a cup of tea and get back just in time to hear the note."

The real Trakkers were more compact, Fleintrop of the Netherlands is a good example of Trakker organ building. Being something of an organ nut, when I was doing seminars in Europe I would go to Evensong after the day's class just to hear the various instruments. I have heard the magnificent organ in St. Paul's, London, an Anglican church in Brighton, England, The Father Brown organ in the little church at Rye, England and the three organs on the Hautkirk in Amersfoort, The Netherlands where we were lucky enough to be invited to the final rehersal of a new work (in English, The Flood, I have forgotten the composers name) that involved the three organs, two orchestras and three choirs. We also had the opportunity to speak to some of the performers during intermission when they served refreshments.

There is a church in Germany with four organs and all four can be controlled from one console (manuals). I have a quadraphonic LP of E. Power Biggs playing all four, and even in two channel stereo you get the image of an organ in every corner. Another organ builder is Casavant, from St. Hyacinthe, Quebec - I grew up about 20 miles from there.

Rob

[Chad Hauris]

I haven't had a problem with delay in playing a large tracker action organ...ones that are that large are usually pretty well built and have good response to the keys, and, sitting right under the pipes minimizes the distance from the sound source to the ears.

What can be problematic is in organs like electric action theatre organs where the console is way far away from the pipes like in the balcony of the theater and there is a signficant distance for the sound to travel. It can be real confusing to play fast passages on these.

[Sandy G]

I have an album "Colossus-Gus Farley plays the mighty Wurlitzer" & it has a VERY 1960-looking pic of a flat-topped, white-headed guy-Mr Farley, I presume-playing this organ that has like 4 rows of keys...Kinda the LP you'd find at a Sally Anne for 50 cents, but the organ DOES sound good...-Sandy G.

[scolba]

168 horsepower..... how many watts is that??????? :naughty:


WOOHOO!!!! I can actually add something useful to the thread!!! :)

1 hp = 746 watts, so 168 hp = 125328 watts!! kriminy!

you guys really know your stuff!!!

I first noticed the organ when my dad would play it at church and weddings. I was (and still am) amazed at how one can play 2 rows of keys + foot pedals at the same time. Then of course, theres Toccata and Fuge, or pretty much and of Bachs fuges.......that just kept me going!

anybody know what the freqeuncy of the lowest pedal is typically? I mean the note, disregarding all the harmonics, etc.

[Chad Hauris]

The lowest note of the pedal board is C, on organs that have 32 foot ranks in the pedal this note would be around 16 hz. A few organs have 64 foot pipes in the pedal and thus the freq. would be around 8 hz.
Most commonly, 16 foot is the longest, lowest pipe of the pedal and would be around 32 hz for that lowest C.

Here is a page describing the lowest frequencies produced by instruments:

http://www.contrabass.com/pages/frequency.html

[scolba]

wOW!!! thats loooow!!!

[markthefixer]

wOW!!! thats loooow!!!

There was a newer organ installed on the east coast somewhere, that was reviewed in an audio magazine. The reviewer was surprised to note that the lower ranks on the organ, those humungous pipes, were actually electronically generated and fed to a HUGE subwoofer!!!!!!

Gives new meaning to the term "rock the house"........

(my piddling ht 100w subwoofer lets me spot the windows in need of re-caulking, just like the occasional overhead O'Hare airport off flight-path takeoff...)

Golden Gate Bridge, Grand Coulee Dam, Theater Organs, Nasa windtunnels, airport junkie, train junkie and former gearhead..... god i'm weird.....

[scolba]

no wierder than the rest of us!!! :)

I was at a church down in St. Louis about 3 years ago for a wedding that my dad was playing organ at, and i went behind the screen where the pipes were supposed to be, and found probably 12 different boxes with 9 speakers in each (all 10's i think) all facing the rear wall!! Wierd!! I was kind of depressed because it was the first time i was going to get up close and personal with the pipes, but i was intrigued by the acurate sound of it!

Is this commonplace these days?

[markthefixer]

I'll check with my brother... organist,music director and works for a pipe organ builder.

Considering that mass production is pretty much out for constructing these instruments, they are really expensive, and getting the sound without the cost may be a factor.

Every 20 years (or less) the things need a complete re-build due to the cloth, leather and other wearable materials drying and wearing out...
Then there is the heat associated with the compressed air driving them.....

At least the electronics are more reliable, less wear prone... and more easily replaced.

edit: AH HAH, That is the Our Lady of Mount Carmel Organ.... I looked at the Visser-Rowland site.. and there it was.... 690 w Belmont it is one of TWO that they have, thus that is a SECOND organ in the balcony, a restored original unaltered Skinner organ. Whatta place......

[scolba]

Yup!! Thats the one!

so why so many more pipes in the balcony? or are they just more spread out?

[Celt]

One of the local Methodist churches has a pipe organ that was installed when the church was built (around 1928) and was recently rebuilt. The church is three stories high with a basement and a sub-basement. The pipes occupy most of the length in the center and there is another set of pipes in the rear, with trumpets and bells. It has three sets of keys plus the floor pedals. It sounds amazing and I've yet to hear any recording that capture what those things sound like in person.

[Sandy G]

Stupid question-What are "Leslies" ? They look just like speakers to me...-Sandy G.

[Celt]

"Leslie" cabinets feature a rotating horn that's controlled by a servo motor.
It's part of what gives Hammond organs their signature sound.

[Sandy G]

Thanks, Celt-I always wondered. There was an old guy who had an organ who lived right below our lake house-and he was always goin' on & on about his Leslies. I didn't want to show my ignorance & ask him what a Leslie was, but y'all KNOW how ignorant I am, so no big loss there....This old guy also had a big tube shortwave set-I don't remember what it was-may have been a homebrew-I guess THAT set me on the path to where I have all these boatanchors today. I remember that old fella & his wife could both REALLY play that organ, though.-Sandy G.

[markthefixer]

Yup!! Thats the one!

so why so many more pipes in the balcony? or are they just more spread out?

The pipes in the balcony belong to the historic E. M. Skinner pipe organ, a much larger instrument, with an international reputation!!

The one you referenced is it's LITTLE brother!!!!!

The one in the balcony is :
The E.M. Skinner Grand Organ, which has 54 ranks
the lowest/longest rank is 32' at about 16 hz
it is an electrical action organ.(keyboard to pipes connection is electrical)

while the smaller one:
The Visser-Rowland Choir Organ consists of 24? ranks
the lowest/longest rank is 16' at about 32 hz
it is a "trakker" or mechanical action organ.(self explanatory)

here is a link for the two instruments (http://www.mt-carmel.org/organs.htm)

here is a link for skinner organ technical stuff (good) (http://www.milandigitalaudio.com/skinner.htm)

The Chicago Theater organ has 32's (about 16 hz), but the Wanamakers Organ in Philadelphia has 3 ranks of 64's at 8 hz..... (earthquake.......)

also:

IIRC the Leslie was not advocated/sanctioned by Hammond.... they were fighting the tide with a fork on that one...
So that signature sound of a Hammond is really the signature of Both...

[scolba]

thats pretty sweet!! Thanks for the info man!

I just wish i would have gotten to hear the skinner. They played the visser-rowland at the service before the baptism....but not the big boy. :D

[markthefixer]

One last fun fact:


1 hp = 746 watts, so 168 hp = 125328 watts!! kriminy!
.

Thats a lot of acoustical energy, but here is an excerpt about the now demolished Chicago Stadium and the huge Barton organ built specially for it.


Quote:
At some time in the thirties Al Melgard became the staff organist. At one event when Al was on duty at the console, a riot broke out caused by an unpopular decision following a boxing match. Al threw on all the stops and played a rousing version of the National Anthem which helped quell the rioters and also shattered light bulbs and windows in the cavernous stadium. Expecting dismissal because of the damage, Al was instead rewarded with the promise of a lifetime position.
unquote:

Horsepower or watts..... shattering bulbs and windows.... YIKES :yikes:

It died an Ignomous death, saved from the wrecking ball, a propane tank on a trailer next to a warehouse in Phoenix, Arizona, exploded igniting a giant fire in the area, eventually igniting the warehouse and destroying the stadium barton, another Barton and a fully restored wurlitzer awaiting installation. The console survived, as it had not been moved into the warehouse. It is now in a private residence in Las Vegas, Nevada and is now coupled with a UniFlex relay system controlling another organ with a 266MHz Pentium II computer 64MB ram, a 4GB hard drive, and a MPU401 midi card. There is a second console coupled in as well.

[Quadra63]

Bedient Pipe Organ Builders in Roca, Nebraska build modern tracker organs, I believe 3/4 of the organs they have built have been trackers. Here's a link to their site. They have a series of compact trackers, for home or a small church or chapel. They also build massive instruments.


http://www.bedientorgan.com/