View Full Version : Cartridge and a Dual 1209


Rybeam
08-30-2005, 12:47 PM
Will a Dual 1209 work with this cartridge ?

Denon DL-110 Specifications:

Output: 1.6mV

Stylus: Special Elliptical Solid Diamond

Cantilever: Aluminum

Frequency Range: 20 to 45,000 Hz

Tracking Force: 1.5-2.1g

Weight: 4.8g

bohhey
08-30-2005, 05:09 PM
Yes, just fine. I currently have one (cherry red cartridge body) installed on a 1229. I know what the specs say, but I'm tracking at 1 gram just fine. The 1209 isn't QUITE the arm a 1229 is, but your Denon won't know the difference -you may want to go to 1-1/4 grams. Double check your weight with a stylus tracking force gauge - but the 1209's were generally pretty accurate. My experience is that the output isn't quite as much as say a Shure V-15 111, but it sure has a very detailed sound.

It will be a good combo - have fun!!

Rybeam
08-30-2005, 05:31 PM
I read alot of good things about that cartridge, but even though it is a high output moving coil, will it work with a Pioneer SX-950 ?

I have a 1228 in need of some work can you hear any difference between it and a 1209 ?


Thanks !!!

Aage
08-30-2005, 10:44 PM
I'd go a lot closer to 2 grams than 1 in that arm. The 1209 tonearm, while a good one, is heavier and less compliant. It will track better at the upper limits of it range, and thus reduce record wear.

www.records
08-30-2005, 11:03 PM
It should work fine with your SX-950. I have a Denon 110 and have used the phono section in my Marantz, Sansui and Kenwood receivers. The Pioneer will be no different. I have my VTF at 1.8g. It is a nice detailed cart for the price. Good choice!!

I can't help you on the difference between 1228 and 1209.

Rybeam
08-30-2005, 11:35 PM
I do not question your experience "Record" but I found the spec. for my SX-950. The phonon section says 2.5 mV the cartridge output is 1.6 mV. My Shore puts out 5.0 mV. Am I missing something here ? loll :scratch2:

shacky
08-31-2005, 11:00 PM
I have the SX-950 with a lesser Dual - the 1237. I'm having some trouble with the sound. Seems like the output isn't enough for the Sx-950. I bought the Dual with a new AT cheapo (yellow) cartridge. I have to turn the volume up past 12 o'clock and it doesn't sound that good. I switched to an Ortofon a NOS FF 15 C MK II another AK'er suggested. The Ortofon sounds a little better but not much and I still have to crank up the volume past 12 o'clock to get decent sound level. They guy I bought the Dual from said he "re-wired" it and sounded knowlegeable. Any suggestions?
Jim

Rybeam
09-01-2005, 12:41 AM
That yellow AT should scream at 8 O'clock, mute is off ? Clean the jacks ? Clean the buttons ? Try turning "phono 1" button and pushing it in a few times, tried phono 2 ?Try the switches while holding them and putting a bit of pressure on way or the other, slowly while record is playing. Clean them too !

www.records
09-01-2005, 09:01 AM
Rybeam, maybe the phono section on the SX-950 is alot different from the vintage receiver I have. The HOMC Denon 110 works fine with my Sansui 8080, Marantz 2252B, and Kenwood KR6600. Maybe the 950 is a totally different animal. I have never owned or heard one.

OvenMaster
09-01-2005, 09:25 AM
They guy I bought the Dual from said he "re-wired" it and sounded knowlegeable. Any suggestions?
Jim
Um, Jim, you hadn't told me that. :no: It's very possible he screwed something up by using the wrong type of wire. The capacitance may be totally messed up, cutting response levels and making everything just sound like chit. He may have sounded knowledgeable, but was he a professional repairman? Unless something had been broken, there's no real reason to replace tonearm wiring on a TT such as a 1237.
Tom

bohhey
09-01-2005, 04:27 PM
[QUOTE=Rybeam]

I have a 1228 in need of some work can you hear any difference between it and a 1209 ?

The 1209 is a slightly heavier built machine - beefier motor (especially in the bearings - the bearing carriers are stamped steel, not poured pot metal), metal in lieu of plastic lever switches - AND - save normal cleanig and lubrication is the more trouble free of the two. The 1228 offers damped down cueing and (what Dual says is) a more refined gimbal mount tonearm. The horizontal mount bearings are the same, the 1228's gimbal offers vertical mount bearings above and below the tonearm, while the 1209 mounts both sets of bearing opposing each other below the tonearm. Gimbal sure looks neat & has SLIGHTLY better specs, but after all of these years, anything gets a little out of spec., so I personally feel that for normal listening & wear & tear, they're a wash. If I were going to a desert isle with one or the other, hands down the 1209 - it'll be running in 10 years without a hitch. 1228 may have some additional issues - the cueing needs to be re-packed (and the tonearm spartially disassembled to get at it) on an infrequent basis - the 1209 - a different system - no repacking is usually required.

shacky
09-01-2005, 06:13 PM
Tom,

Sorry I hadn't mentioned the new connectors on the TT. I did also try my old B&O RX2 with a decent MMC4. It also does not give enough signal - I have to go even higher with volume. Something is wrong and it's #%$@@'ing me off.

Jim

OvenMaster
09-01-2005, 06:30 PM
Okay, a B&O MMC4 has only about 2mV output... roughly half of what an average moving magnet cart puts out. Unless the 950 has a moving coil input, you're going to get low levels and lousy sound. Like Rybeam says, that AT should be screamingly loud. If it is still quiet, then your phono stage is messed up, IMHO.

Did your seller replace the entire output cable and RCA plugs on the TT? And not just the tonearm wiring? A red flag should have gone up in our minds when you'd said that the pin connectors had to be squeezed shut. I didn't think it should have been needed, normally. Regular replacement cables are all wrong; they have to have the proper capacitance. Otherwise it's just no good :no: and it will sound like crap.

Tom

OvenMaster
09-02-2005, 06:38 AM
Jim, I looked through some old threads. You said your old Sony 6050 was on its last legs. Had you connected the Dual/AT combo to it to see if the output was as strong as the Pioneer 950? Then you could tell roughly if the 950's phono stage was on the fritz.

Just a thought.

Tom