In the 70's when I bought my first system I ran out of money before I could afford a decent tape deck. I ended up with a Sanyo, which made barely passable tunes for the car. Any way in my recent reintroduction to vintage gear I picked up several three head decks, 2 Onkyo 2056's, an Akai GFX 90, and a Pioneer CT-900. I was surprised by the quality of the copies made on these decks. With the death of cassettes I see piles of $.25 and $.50 tapes at garage sales. At this price I can't resist.

My question is what should one consider in buyng a prerecorded tape? and how do you get the best replay? :scratch2:

Uriah

Basically, and I cannot speak for anyone else, I pick up prerecorded cassettes when no other format is available for a title. The highs quite often stink because they're made on high-speed duplicating machines, the Dolby tracking may be calibrated differently than any deck you play the tape on, and the azimuth may or may not be in the ballpark.

That said, things I look at when buying a prerecorded tape is the printing on the shell. If it's worn out, chances are the tape is as well. Also, I try to stick with popular labels. Off-brand or unknown labels have often been cheap, thin, or stretchable. Whenever I play a prerecorded tape I always always always clean the heads afterwards.

Tom

Most prerecorded tapes are trash. Unless the tapes were recorded on special audiophile labels, they generally sound lousy.

The high speed duplication processes used to create most of these tapes, resulted in very limited frequency response.

Some were OK though. Mobile fidelity, and In-Sync tapes come to mine as some that actually could sound pretty good.

Prerecorded commercial tapes have the lowest sound quality of any cassette. They were recorded on normal bias tape so they will play on any machine. That's why so many people felt that cassette quality was so poor. Granted, they can never match 1/4" reel-to-reel tape, even at 3 3/4 ips, but you'll be amazed at how good a cassette deck can sound if you make your own recordings using tape of the proper bias type for your deck.

Basically, and I cannot speak for anyone else, I pick up prerecorded cassettes when no other format is available for a title. The highs quite often stink because they're made on high-speed duplicating machines, the Dolby tracking may be calibrated differently than any deck you play the tape on, and the azimuth may or may not be in the ballpark.

That said, things I look at when buying a prerecorded tape is the printing on the shell. If it's worn out, chances are the tape is as well. Also, I try to stick with popular labels. Off-brand or unknown labels have often been cheap, thin, or stretchable. Whenever I play a prerecorded tape I always always always clean the heads afterwards.

Tom

Tom is right on. It is best to get good tape and make your recordings. I have a Teac V-95RX that makes better recordings then the prerecorded tapes I have. By the way love your avatar I have that vary album love it and the group. :thmbsp:

Ron

I agree with the previous posters that most commercial cassettes sounded like crap. There were some exceptions, though - for example, I used to have about 30 prerecorded tapes of classical music from the Musical Heritage Society that sounded pretty good. And there were a few respectable efforts to produce high-quality cassettes of rock, etc. In general, though, it is certainly true that you're better off recording your own.

I can count on one hand the ones I bought in the 70's that were acceptable. The standouts are: Pink Floyd "DSOTM"-Mobile Fidelity BASF Cr02 tape, The Police "Synchronicity" A&M BASF Cr02 tape, Queen "A Night At The Opera" Elektra (first issue-normal bias tape) and "Fleetwood Mac" Fleetwood Mac-TDK SA tape (import).

pre recorded tapes just plain suck. I have dozens of them from when I was a kid and never had good sound.

Using a good deck and high bias tapes, you can have near CD quality sound. I never used to believe that, but its true. I played back some music for a friend that I recorded on good tape and he was blow away. He never knew a tape could sound good.

Thanks guys! I expected as much. I am just a sucker for cheap music. I was currious if some of the 80's recordings would match the decks of that era, By the way do you know what or if 'digalog' means anything? It is a trademarked sticker on some of the late 80's cassettes.

Thanks on the avatar. Album art is sorely missed by me.

Uriah

"Digalog" as I remember, was an attempt to improve the sound quality of the pre-recorded cassettes by using digital masters, rather than third generation analog tapes. The pre-recorded tape medium has never been very good. The only ones that ever stood out were some of the early reel to reel tapes that were duplicated at 7.5 ips.

Best bet on a budget is to buy what were once blank cassettes at garage sales, etc. and either listen to those or tape over them. But any label release of a commercial nature, or the cassette it was recorded on... well, they vary from absolutely terrible to barely ok at best. Most are absolutely terrible, as expounded upon already.

I will agree with most of the comments above. In general prerecorded tapes do not sound as good as some other music sources. There are exceptions. I have purchased over one hundred prerecorded cassette tapes within the last three years and some sound very good indeed.

When Concord records closed out their cassettes, I bought a bunch. Most are recorded using chrome tape with Dolby B and Dolby HX Pro and about 60% of them sound very good. I have also purchased some Columbia Legacy cassettes that do not use any noise reduction and they sounded pretty good too.

At this point almost anything one finds on cassette is very inexpensive. I have purchased titles that I certainly would not spend CD money on just to see if I liked the music. If I like the music fine, if not, I am not out much.

I used to help assemble blank cassette tapes a long time ago at a home factory - ya konw the kind of 70's stuff.

I grabbed many excellent deals in the past 5 years since the demise of cassettes. I bought 3 dozens of brand new CrO2 Ampex 60's for US$11, 120 nos of TDK brand new tapes for US$0.5 each (those were about 100 SA90s, some AD120s, ARX90s, and a couple of SA-X90s).

Anyway, being a cassettehead, I regularly buy US$0.25 used tapes at street stalls here. My priority of importance for buying tapes:

1. clean shell
2. wind the tape to see if there are any signs of stiped mark on tape surface
3. no rust on backing plate
4. if the tape is non-prerecorded, make sure the box accords with the shell (writing, marking etc)
5. tapes with unknown contents are OK if they match priority condition 1 and 2.
6. prerecorded tapes are OK if the box is there and appears clean enough with no stripe marks on the tape surface.

If you are after prerecorded tapes, you have to have a deck with features for easily tuned play heads for best high frequency response. I recommend Nakamichi 582 or 682 with or without the Z (stands for Dobly C). But if you play tapes of unknown quality, I recommend any Akai decks with glass. These heads just last forever. But the heads are not easily tuned with the door cover on.

i'd like to chime in and say that some labels, like slash records utterly ruined great records with poor cassette duplication. compare the chills, "submarine bells" with the vinyl and you will discover that the tremelo of side two is a flaw on the tape. i bet i've heard a dozen copies with the same prolbem. labelmates, los lobos, were also saddled with this in the late 80s.

unfortunately, cassette tapes are the only medium to find independent music from the last 20 years or so. early punk titles can be nearly nonexistant on vinyl anymore and often the rereleases monkey around with the original tracks or drop songs entirely for space.

thrift shops and garage sales can still be a gas. original rough trade, sst and sub pop releases can be found for a fraction of ebay or well worn vinyl. the beloved K7. this is how it was done forever. prices being what they are, the cd-r only recently took over.

beyond the scope of the western underground, alot of music from developing countries is still distributed on cassette. in the middle of nowhere or somewhere mighty poor, heads and capstans will always be easier to clean than cd lenses. it's just a fact.

audiophile? not at all. a viable format with places to explore? absolutely. i can't dog anyone for enjoying anything obsolete. after all, my own tunes are out in italy on a little cassette label called, best kept secret.

one final thought. there is not a better medium for long road trips than a good stack of cassettes and a deck that doesn't eat them up. cd's and the units that make them make noise are a thieves paradise. tapes can litter the backseat for a night of camping and be right there in the morning. cheap, cheerful, infinitely portable and never skips on washboard byways.

have to agree that cassette is still the best in car medium...rugged, cheap, unattractive to theives..and with a good homemade compilation...you spend less time fiddling with tracks and simply enjoy the music...
alpine in car cassette players do 20hz-20khz...so no shortage of decent 'on the move' sound quality either...
the trouble with making your own high quality home compilations for use in car is that...its not the theives that steal them....its your passengers ! :D

But the biggest problem I've seen with used cassettes has been their care, they are left to freeze and bake in vehicles, they are low bias for the most part, the Dolby sucked ass, and are usually riddled with drop-outs from poorly maintained decks in which they saw their service. When I was 16, I didn't have a clue as to what magnetization could do to a tape, and we swapped them around pretty regularly, when I was 19, I was cleaning and demagnetizing the head every 10-12 hours. Too late, the damage was done.

Anybody have a source for Cassette splicing tape? Yeah, I know this sounds korny, but I have a Nak Dragon and quite few metal biased tapes I listen to. Thing is....sometimes they break and are in need of repair. Tried Radio Shack, Best Buy, etc etc. Nobody seems to have it.........Anybody have a source for me????

You might want to check under the Reel to Reel section on Ebay, it's 1/4", but you're going to be cutting anyway. Seems fairly common.

I'm glad to see this string stimulated some additional discussion. I came home from a garage sale saturday with a a box of tapes I offered $5 for. Turned out to be over 60 tapes, mostly 80's hair bands and some metal (I did get 5 Maxell CRII as well). Obsolete road tunes. I have to agree its a cheap way to sample tunes. I have a pair of Onkyo 2056's one which plays through an Onkyo EQ 35 and some of these aren't too bad.

Uriah

The Maxell's are probably worth the 5 bones. Prolly got a lot if stuff that you wouldn't pay any real money for. Playing OK so far?

My experience so far is the Onkyo's are bullet proof, they'll play anything. I bought the box based on a quick sampling and the fact the cases were intact and organized. I ususally consider the gereral condition of the rest of the garage/yard sale items when I make a purchase. In this case so far so good.

In a related question how do you buy garage sale LP's beyond the obvious hold it up in good light. I asked one fellow what kind of TT he had played his albums on and he looked like I was speaking Greek. I've about given up on thrift vinyl as it is mostly trashed. I did find 6 unopened albums for $.25 a pop during the same outing. A couple Sinatra, and 60's stuff. Can't decide whether to break the seals...

Uriah

The mass market tapes sucked. The tapes you made at home were usually pretty darn good, depending on the quality of the vinyl and cart/ turntable. And of course, your tape deck.

But I have to say the best sounding cassette, or any source of music including CD and vinyl, that I've EVER heard, is the "Sound of Nakamichi" reference standard demo tapes on TDK Metal that are very rare now.

I have one up on eBay now, up to $27 after less than 24 hrs.

Not trying to sell here, just pointing out what a great sounding cassette is. :yes:

I did run into just one particularly good commercially pre-recorded tape back in the early 80's -- Supertramp's "Famous Last Words" on Cr02. And I think it was actually produced by some common label like A&M. I'd pick up any commercial chrome or metal tape. I consider those collectors items. Otherwise, I agree with all of the above.

However, you will never get optimal performance unless a cassette is played on the machine on which it was recorded. I have some cassettes recorded on a slightly faster machine than the one I use now. The pitch is just slightly flat and the music seems to drag just a tad. It drives me batty, but my audio nut brother (who owned the other machine) can't hear the difference! :grumpy:

Another observation: My plethora of home recorded Denon Cr02 tapes from the early 80's seem to have faded quite a bit, while the few metal tapes I have still sound strikingly sharp. If I only knew that was going to happen, I would have gone exclusively metal!

High-end cassettes and decks are a lost art, and things were just getting interesting when killer decks like the Yamaha K1000 and Nak Dragon came out. Though I can see why the market went away when mobile CD players became reasonably stable.

Do they still sell car cassette decks?

The Dragon is indeed the cat's ass of decks. The only Nak I have is a rather lowly 480, (silver faced), but for a 2 head deck it's pretty damned capable. They probably make mobile decks that are of the combo variety, like they do with the VCR/DVD combo players for home, I would doubt if any of the Taiwan/Mexico/China drive mechanisms are worthy of a chrome or metal tape of a prized recording tho. :scratch2:

I have a Pioneer CT-F 1000, and a moded CT-F 900 that have pitch controls.
:thmbsp:

The K1000 and the Dragon were really close. The main difference IIRC was the method of azimuth adjustment. The Dragon's method was fully automated, where the K1000 required you to tweek a knob until you got a good reading on a meter. Wouldn't have been a huge step for Yamaha to finish automating that one. But the K1000 was also one sweeeet sounding deck! I suppose there were probably others out there of that caliber. Those were just the ones I was exposed to.

I used mostly TOTL TDK and Denon chrome tapes with them, and the occasional Maxell. I pretty much avoided most anything else, since many others just didn't seem to have the quality. The Memorex dude that almost got blown away by "Flight of the Valkyries" looked pretty impressive, but that just never happened to me, personally.

- Edit - OK, I believe the "blown away" guy was Maxell's ad, not Memorex. Sorry! The two are not even in the same league. That still never quite happened to me, but Maxell brought the experience much closer to the ad!

- jw

I actually recorded tons of tapes on the little Sony WM-D6 Professional Walkman. That little sucker isn't huge on features, but it does have a little LED level meter, chrome and metal settings, and a line level output for a home system. And it blows away a lot of mid-priced component decks! Sound quality is unheard of for its size. Techs say the thing is so heavily crammed with components that they all spring out like confetti when you open it. So of course, they charged about $20 more per hour to fix it than for any other portable unit.

It looks kinda goofy hooked up to a serious sound system, so I just avoid telling people what the source is until they hear the music. Then of course, they refuse to believe it.

Sorry to get the topic a little off-track, but I think we pretty well exhausted the pre-recorded tape subject anyhow.

- jw

When I was the resident sound maven at a large college, I wrote the bid specifications for an industrial-grade Telex cassette duplicating system. The machinery was superb, and I gave it my own personal acid test of classical music, including piano for speed stability. Using good tape, the machine came through with flying colors.

Most pre-recorded casettes, however, impressed me as being as cheap as the manufacturer could get by with. Believe me, there was sure a lot of horrible bulk tape out there -- much of it abrasive and sure to destroy your tape heads in short order. Record companies do not have much respect for people whose sole diet is top-40 music (I have to say that I share this belief).

Now, there were also some very well-made semi-audiophile cassettes, too; these tended to be recorded 1:1 at normal speed. Most commercial duplicating houses, however, didn't keep their machines adjusted and maintained -- they just cranked them out until the machine dumped tape on the floor.

Richard Steinfeld

This goes back aways, and I am no audiophile (yet). But even back in the 70s as teens, we were shocked how bad alot of the prerecorded tapes were. We would always buy the album, and then immediatly record the album onto a TDK high end cassette. We didn't know what model TDK to buy, so we just would buy the most expensive. This worked great. Our 2nd generation TDK copies sounded better than most pre recorded tapes, and did not seem to hardly wear out! I still have a few of my custom "mixes" which still can play. Amazing.

what a coincidence, littlesongs. i just picked up 'submarine bells' on vinyl, and gave a listen through, and thought, Hmmm, yet another band wanting to sound like Echo and the Bunnymen. are you a fan? i mean, it seems like a fairly obscure release. what brought that title to mind for you in this discussion?

shrinkboy

i am a fan. the chills extended musical family predate echo and the bunnymen by around a decade. it was one of many releases on slash in the 80s that suffered from poor quality duplication. i feel quite blessed that i had a chance to see them live on the tour. martin has been quite ill and has been far less active then he was when "submarine bells" was released.

hey, littlesongs! um, did you know you were replying a to thread over a year old? anyway, thanx for getting back, live long and prosper