View Full Version : Carver question


wmgwizard
09-22-2012, 04:35 PM
I currently have a Carver M400 "cube" that I enjoy very much. I would like to purchase a second to use as a dual mono setup.

My current unit is unfinished raw aluminum, but I have also seen them in a darker "charcoal" color. Color is not a priority as they will be out of sight.

I also believe there was a "T" variant as well. I know these are tuned for a more tube like sound.

What do I need to look out for to get a match for my current unit?

Is there a difference in sound or construction between colors?

Thanks to all for your thoughts and advice in advance.

Pyrrho
09-22-2012, 04:49 PM
If yours is an M-400, and you want an exact match, avoid the M-400a or M-400t. But the color of the case is just the color of the case. It has nothing whatever to do with the circuits inside.

Now, one of the things to remember when bridging an amplifier is that the impedance that it can handle is doubled. Fortunately, though, the M-400 can handle 2 ohm loads (in stereo operation), so you will be good to go with most speakers with them bridged.

If you need a manual:

http://www.doebbe.com/hifi/items/Carver_M-400_Manual.pdf

wmgwizard
09-22-2012, 06:29 PM
Thanks for the info.

Running a pair of Infinity RS3b right now and think they need more.

Pyrrho
09-22-2012, 07:02 PM
You might want to ask about the minimum impedance of those speakers in the Infinity forum:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=129

Some Infinity speakers have nasty low impedance dips in the bass where lots of power is needed, and I have no idea about your particular model. If yours do have a very low dip in the impedance, keep in mind that the Carver M-400 is supposed to be used for 4 ohms and above when bridged, so if there are dips below 3 ohms in a low frequency, you might want to just look for a more powerful amplifier that, like the Carver M-400 in stereo mode, is rated for 2 ohm use.

Now, when using your Carver in your current setup, are you running it loud enough to light up the top meter lights? If not, then more power will not be likely to do much good.

sKiZo
09-22-2012, 07:29 PM
Love my lil cube ... I got the plain jame 400. Picked it up for next to nothing because only one channel works, but that's all I needed. I wanted it to drive the center channel on my Oppo SACD, and I don' need no steenking sub. The four main channels are powered courtesty of my Sansui quad, with a little help from a McIntosh MC2205 on the front.

Here's a pic ...

http://www.brainfartz.com/images/Stereo%20Stuff/system-jun12.jpg

Give up? It's the two red dots peeking out from under the right side of the monitor. Pre-amp? Naaaaaaaah ... I just put a balanced pot between the amp and the Oppo line out to tone it down. It drives the Bose AV speaker in the middle of the top shelf - bit overkill, but it works perfect, and nice clean sound, with no crosstalk or noise.

Someday I get bored, I'll have to dig in and find out exactly what's wrong with that other channel. No rush ... it's doing what I need it to do as is.

wmgwizard
09-22-2012, 07:55 PM
When the top light starts blinking; I stop turning it up. I know that is when the amps reserves are spent and clipping begins.

Already burned up a couple of pair of tweeter fuses, thats why I think I need MORE POWER!!!!!

Pyrrho
09-22-2012, 10:29 PM
When the top light starts blinking; I stop turning it up. I know that is when the amps reserves are spent and clipping begins.

Already burned up a couple of pair of tweeter fuses, thats why I think I need MORE POWER!!!!!

Okay. Now you need to know whether or not your Infinities are some of the ones with the nasty low dips in the impedance curve in the bass, and then you will know if bridged M-400 amplifiers will work. You still are only going to get a small increase in volume with them bridged, because it takes a doubling of power to get just a 3 dB increase in volume. (To get a 6 dB increase in volume, you need to quadruple your power, etc.) But if all you want is a little more, then if there are no impedance problems, another M-400 would likely be the least expensive way to get it.

wmgwizard
09-22-2012, 10:41 PM
The m400 has been known to exceed twice its rated power when bridged:
200 x 2, 500 x 1 so each speaker getting 500 wpc should be significantly louder than the current 200 wpc.
My RS3b's have "standard" woofers. I have read that the "Watkins" and "servo" woofers have some difficult curves.
I plan on fusing them and the mids.....just in case
And if it doesnt work well with the Infinities, I'll just use my TF600's or ADS L780's.

laatsch55
09-22-2012, 11:38 PM
When in doubt get a Carver TP-2400. THAT'S a F&^%$# amp!!

Pyrrho
09-23-2012, 12:16 AM
The m400 has been known to exceed twice its rated power when bridged:
200 x 2, 500 x 1 so each speaker getting 500 wpc should be significantly louder than the current 200 wpc.
My RS3b's have "standard" woofers. I have read that the "Watkins" and "servo" woofers have some difficult curves.
I plan on fusing them and the mids.....just in case
And if it doesnt work well with the Infinities, I'll just use my TF600's or ADS L780's.

First of all, the 200 and 500 watts are ratings for 8 ohm speakers, and your speakers are not 8 ohms. I don't think Carver ever stated how much power they will put out bridged into 4 ohms. Second of all, the difference in volume between going from 200 watts to 500 watts is very slightly less than 4dB. That is not a dramatic difference in volume, though it is easily noticeable.

You can read a bit about this subject here:

http://www.musiccenters.com/vol.html

If you want a dramatic increase in volume, you would need vastly more power. Of course, at some point, your speakers will be destroyed by more power, so there is a limit to how much volume you can get from them. If you require more than their limit, you need different speakers. Or simply sit closer to them (generally speaking, the closer you are to them the louder it will be at that point). As things are, you are already at the upper limit of power that Infinity recommended using with those speakers:

http://www.infinity-classics.de/technik/manuals/RS_IIIA_technical_sheet.pdf

Very likely, you will never get much greater volume out of them than you can already get with one M-400. (I should have looked at that before.)

If you do go with more power, your idea of using fuses is a very good one, though it will be difficult to determine the precise values needed to protect the speakers while allowing you to play them as loud as they can be played without damage.


Additionally, the impedance problem is not just with Watkins woofers. The Kappa 9 supposedly has two dips down near 1 ohm, and they do not use Watkins woofers. See:

http://www.infinity-classics.de/technik/manuals/Kappa_9_technical_sheet.pdf

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=6073907&postcount=7

http://www.davidsaudio.com/html/infinity_.html