View Full Version : KAB/Ortofon ProS 1.1 Mil vs. smaller conical for Microgroove LPs?


Wally Swift
11-11-2012, 11:56 AM
I'm wondering how much of a difference I would hear with a KAB/Ortofon ProS cart with 1.1 Mil conical stylus as opposed to the Audio Technica AT70 cart I use for Microgroove LPs. The AT70 stock stylus is .7 Mil conical. Is it worth the $90 for the larger stylus tip? I do play alot of older Microgroove LPs. They sound very nice with the AT70. How much better might they sound though?

cactuscowboy
11-11-2012, 12:44 PM
I'm wondering how much of a difference I would hear with a KAB/Ortofon ProS cart with 1.1 Mil conical stylus as opposed to the Audio Technica AT70 cart I use for Microgroove LPs. The AT70 stock stylus is .7 Mil conical. Is it worth the $90 for the larger stylus tip? I do play alot of older Microgroove LPs. They sound very nice with the AT70. How much better might they sound though?

I use both the Ortofon w/1.1 mil conical and another conical, a 0.7 mil, on a Stanton 500. I have no experience with the AT70. When using those two cartridges for Mono record playback, I'll sum the signal to mono in my phono preamp.

What I find remarkable about the Ortofon 1.1 mil is the suppression of click and pops. It won't make a completely trashed record sound great, but on those discs that might appear (and likely sound) "VG" or "VG+", I can expect them to play-grade much better than expected. It's become my cartridge of choice for spinning old mono discs. Tracking at about 2.8 grams, it does a wonderful job with both 45s and LPs. Perhaps the larger diameter of 1.1 mil makes a difference or maybe it's just a higher quality stylus or a combination of both factors. Cost of course is not always the final word regarding quality, but the Ortofon 1.1 mil stylus is quite a bit more expensive than the Stanton 0.7 mil conical, FWIW.

Wally Swift
11-12-2012, 07:46 AM
Thanks CC!

gadget73
11-12-2012, 07:55 AM
1.1 mil should be too wide for stereo. It might be OK for mono though.

beatcomber
11-12-2012, 08:20 AM
I use both the Ortofon w/1.1 mil conical and another conical, a 0.7 mil, on a Stanton 500. I have no experience with the AT70. When using those two cartridges for Mono record playback, I'll sum the signal to mono in my phono preamp.

What I find remarkable about the Ortofon 1.1 mil is the suppression of click and pops. It won't make a completely trashed record sound great, but on those discs that might appear (and likely sound) "VG" or "VG+", I can expect them to play-grade much better than expected. It's become my cartridge of choice for spinning old mono discs. Tracking at about 2.8 grams, it does a wonderful job with both 45s and LPs. Perhaps the larger diameter of 1.1 mil makes a difference or maybe it's just a higher quality stylus or a combination of both factors. Cost of course is not always the final word regarding quality, but the Ortofon 1.1 mil stylus is quite a bit more expensive than the Stanton 0.7 mil conical, FWIW.

Do you detect any loss of musical detail with the larger tip?

Stanton681EEES
11-12-2012, 08:25 AM
Do you detect any loss of musical detail with the larger tip?

No i have a Stanton 6010 1 mil stylus, that I use on a Stanton 600 and it sounds as good or better than some elliptical and conical. I bought mine cheap just so see how it would play old 45's and early 60's mono's.

beatcomber
11-12-2012, 08:40 AM
No i have a Stanton 6010 1 mil stylus, that I use on a Stanton 600 and it sounds as good or better than some elliptical and conical. I bought mine cheap just so see how it would play old 45's and early 60's mono's.

No kidding!

Another Ortofon question... I have a older LM10, which is the earlier version of the OM10. It has the original "10" stylus (the earlier one that tracks at 2 grams) and I find that it is terribly bright. There is a 1.0 mil stylus available that should fit this body - should I expect a similarly forward sound with it?

cactuscowboy
11-12-2012, 10:32 AM
No kidding!

Another Ortofon question... I have a older LM10, which is the earlier version of the OM10. It has the original "10" stylus (the earlier one that tracks at 2 grams) and I find that it is terribly bright. There is a 1.0 mil stylus available that should fit this body - should I expect a similarly forward sound with it?

The "LM" body is "Low Mass" and designed for low mass tonearms. It is a lightweight cartridge body.

Yes, you could use the Ortofon D25M 1.1 mil conical on that LM body. The D25M is designed to track at 2.0-3.0 grams VTF. It might be beneficial to add a headshell weight (or heavier headshell if that's possible on your tonearm) if you go this route.

As for a "bright" or "forward" sound, I don't find that the case with the D25M running at about 2.8 grams VTF. Very good frequency response with full bodied and detailed sound.

beatcomber
11-12-2012, 10:48 AM
The "LM" body is "Low Mass" and designed for low mass tonearms. It is a lightweight cartridge body.

Yes, you could use the Ortofon D25M 1.1 mil conical on that LM body. The D25M is designed to track at 2.0-3.0 grams VTF. It might be beneficial to add a headshell weight (or heavier headshell if that's possible on your tonearm) if you go this route.

As for a "bright" or "forward" sound, I don't find that the case with the D25M running at about 2.8 grams VTF. Very good frequency response with full bodied and detailed sound.

Thanks!

I should probably re-try the LM10 now that I have added a fluid dampener on my SL-1200. It might help tame the top end, I dunno.

Stanton681EEES
11-12-2012, 01:46 PM
No kidding!

Another Ortofon question... I have a older LM10, which is the earlier version of the OM10. It has the original "10" stylus (the earlier one that tracks at 2 grams) and I find that it is terribly bright. There is a 1.0 mil stylus available that should fit this body - should I expect a similarly forward sound with it?

As Jack Paar Use to say I kid You not. :yes:

Wally Swift
11-12-2012, 11:03 PM
No i have a Stanton 6010 1 mil stylus, that I use on a Stanton 600 and it sounds as good or better than some elliptical and conical. I bought mine cheap just so see how it would play old 45's and early 60's mono's.

Are the other conical styli that fall short of the Stanton 6010 1 mil also 1 mil? I wondering how much difference .7 mil vs. 1 mil will make when playing back 60's mono records excluding differences in the carts themselves. Does anyone know if a larger conical tip can be obtained for the Audio Technica AT70?

Stanton681EEES
11-13-2012, 04:25 AM
Are the other conical styli that fall short of the Stanton 6010 1 mil also 1 mil? I wondering how much difference .7 mil vs. 1 mil will make when playing back 60's mono records excluding differences in the carts themselves. Does anyone know if a larger conical tip can be obtained for the Audio Technica AT70?

I have used or tried the following all were 0.07 tips except the FTR and the 6010
the 1 mil for the Stanton, a 0.05 mil on a Grado MC+, A D6800 AL on my Stanton 681 bodies as well an ADC K8 on an ADCQLM36 and one more a Pickering V15AM on a Stanton 500 and they all sound really good the best of the lot are the 6010 on the Stanton 600 the AM on the Stanton 500 and they FTR on the Grado MC+

I also have the stylus that came with the Grado MC+ but it's been so long since i used it I can't remember much about it.

I went to the 0.05 stylus on the Grado cause I liked how it sounded plus at the time i got mine from ebay the FTR styluses were very cheap. I bought the 1 mil 6010 cause i wanted to try it asd I needed a stylus for a 600 body i had and the price for that was very cheap as well. all under 10 dollars.
I don't believe there is a larger tip for the AT 70 Lini would probably no more about it, as he is the AT Guru when it comes to all things Audio Technica.