New vs. old C.D. player...is it REALLY better?

[SixCats!]

Hi all,

I was wondering...does the NEW breed of SINGLE PLAY Compact Disk players truly make a NOTICEABLE improvement
over a FOURTEEN year old player? My old Sony CDP-970 bought new in 1989 is STILL working well overall with only a occasional skip. So...my question...is there a MARKED IMPROVEMENT in sound if I were to buy a new unit? Can one REALLY tell the difference? If so...what unit is a good bet? I have read good things about Rega Planet but...too much money IMHO (at least for me). Reading about the AH! TUBE sounds interesting.
Then there is the improved NAD? Any thoughts/comments/suggestions would be most appreciated.

SixCats!

[reyneman]

I presently have a Sony from 1989 (could get model, but too lazy to get up), am listening to the Ah!Tjoeb as I type, have a Denon DCM-370 in the same system, and a couple of SACD players in other systems.

YES! There is quite a bit of improvement in sound between the old Sony and any of my newer players, well worth buying IMHO. However, the differences in any of the newer players is of a much subtler nature.

The Ah!, if your system is sensitive, gives a "holographic" effect missing from the Denon, even though the Denon decodes HDCD. Must listen closely to notice, and then only noticable back to back. Most obvious on vocals, giving life to voices (at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it, no matter what my wife says about a waste of money)

Both my SACD players are AT LEAST as good on CDs as the Denon, and with quality SACDs quite a step up in musical ability.

If I was spending my money again, I would go with the Sony NS755 DVD/SACD for music and video. I find its CD play to be as good as anything in its price range, with SACD and DVD as bonuses. Should be able to find it new for around $220 delivered. JM2c

[geespot]

I also have the AH! with the Upsampling installed and the Denon 370. I do have to say they sound a lot better than my Technics circa 1987 CD player and a cheap Sony 5 disk. More of a laid back, neutral sound with the Denon and Ah! The Technics and Sony were lacking in the bass and lots of treble. My ears were bleeding after a short listening.

I forgot to mention the Denon playing through a Klipsch towers (model # escapes me) and the AH! through Wharfedale Diamond 8.3's.

If I did it again, a multi format player from Pioneer would be my choice.

g

[SixCats!]

Hi geespot,

I just checked out a Pioneer something model 45 DVD multi format player at Tweeters. I just don't know...I an not too impressed with the weight of a $500.00 unit. I know this may sound sort of strange but...I sort of first judge a products built quality "somewhat" by it's weight. In fairness...I did not listen to it but learned a lot about DVD's as I know very little about the format. I also read a few reviews on the 45 at audioreivew.com and the results were so so. I started this post in the hopes of finding a VERY GOOD mid priced single play CD player such as was available in the past...however...not that many to choose from and the ones that do exist are not so inexpensive and I question if they are REALLY better...perhaps they are.
I am talking the likes of NAD,ROTEL,AH! (higher priced) and I am not sure what else is out there. Not too much at the chain shops except multi players and DVD with multi formats. I really would consider a multi format DVD if it can be proved to me that the build quality is above average and that it can sound BETTER in the CD mode vs. my old tech CD players. I sure would like to find something LESS than the $500-$800.00 LIST price that performs!

SixCats!

[geespot]

Sixcats-

I had a NAD before the AH!, the 520 I believe. For the $200 I paid for it, it sounded great. What Hi-Fi gave both NAD single disc they top award for 2002. I bought mine off Ebay from Spearit Sound, http://www.northamptonaudio.com/.

On the Pioneer, I was looking at the 47. A co-worker had the 45 but couldn't justify the price because he doesn't listen to a lot of music or has a HDTV for the Progressive scan cabilities.

g

[gonefishin]

What I found in my system when I owned a NAD cd playerwas...that I would never own one again YMMV. It sounded flat, dull, rolled off on the high end, poor definition...on and on. Both my Sony DVD player and my old Magnavox 5 disk changer sounded much better. Perhaps the newer NAD players have changed...I don't know. After owning this player for almost a year...I decided to upgrade...so I tried a higher up model of NAD...again...I was not to pleased. I bought the original Rega Planet which I was happy with. There were also other CD players that would have done just fine...but the darn REga had such a great soundstage and tone in my system.


Just my experiences

[SixCats!]

Hi Gone,

Thanks for you thoughts on the NAD CD player. This is why I am leary about putting down money on these things. I have heard nothing but praise for the REGA however...it is just more than I care to spend on a player. Not sure where this is going to lead me. I am pleased with my system as far as speaker and amp (ACCUPHASE E-202 AMP and PIONEER HPM 100's) .
I am presently using a HK CD player that does sound pretty good but...I figure that would make the most sense to upgrade. How much of a difference it would make...I don't know. I guess I will have to just see if there is a NOT TOO EXPENSIVE single play unit or multi format DVD player that has a received good marks and start there. Thanks for your help. SixCats!

[JoZmo]

Six

You might want to give a listen to one of Sony's ES models.
I used to have one and was pleaed with it and it didn't cost me an arm and a leg... somewhere between 3 and 4 hundred.

I think if I was to buy a Sony again I would stick to their ES line, and they should fall into your price range.

[SixCats!]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all your help. JoZmo...I will look into the SONY ES line. I mean...FOURTEEN YEARS and my SONY is still working well.
Now...I just have to find a place that carries them.
SixCats!

[botrytis]

I am currently using a Denon DCD-820 (20 bit DACs and 8X oversampling). It is from 1992. It can play ANY CD you throw at it, and I mean anything. CD-R of any color, scratched CD's, warped CD's (try leaving a CD in your car for a while - in GA - they warp!!). It sounds better than most of the new CD's also, in my opinion.

The CD player has 3 separate lasers instead of splitting a one beam into three. This is why it can play CD-R's - more laser power.

Sometimes older is better!!

Dave

[Thatch_Ear]

Speaking of more lasers my old Toshibas were such a jump in sound quality over the old 5 disc Sonys and I can pick it up while it is playing and even gently shake it and it will not skip. That is an advantage that getting the multi use players will get you. DVD uses more lasers and the machines are not anywhere near as sensitive to vibration. I can not hear any or very little(I tried the Darumas and thought maybe I could hear just a touch clearer highs, but am not sure) difference between isolated and not isolated on either of the Toshibas(DVD/HDCD) or with my new Phillips 962 DVD/SACD($350 at Tweeter).
Tweeter will let you bring it back for up to 30 days if you don't like it for a full refund if you have the box and all the packing etc.

[botrytis]

I have a Rotel RDV-1080 DVD which does all the formats, except for home recorded CD, DVD, etc. Why? Rotel said they didn't want to be sued under the DMCA, so they made sure it couldn't read home recorded discs.

Dave

[Small Cars]

Well, I did buy the Pioneer Elite DV-45A. No question in my mind that both the SACD and DVD-A formats sound wonderful on this unit, assuming a good source recording. The Aix DVD-A and Sony SACD disks seem most impressive to this point. Great soundstage, dynamic range, detail. Not sure how even the best Red Book players could compete, although there are certainly many good Red Book recordings. By the way, Red Book CDs are impressive using the DV-45A's onboard DACs and the unit's digital output. I listen via Cary preamp, McIntosh 240 power amp, Maggie 1.5 speakers with Hsu subwoofer.

[Rob Babcock]

Sounds like you have yourself a nice system there, Small Cars. I have a DV-45A, too, and I love mine (got 2 Hsu subs, love them too!:) ). I can say that the Pioneer sounds as good as any reasonably priced Sony you can get, and the sound is great on SACD and DVD-A, what little you can find.:mad:

I'm considering having it snt to Modwright for modding; downside is the top mod is $700 and uses a tubed output stage, but only the front L/R. Sorta defeats the purpose, for me anyway, as I think MC is the way of the future. Still, there's a $350 mod level that upgrades caps & power supply for all channel; that might be the way to go.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Elite as it is, just have a case of upgraditus!

[Rob Babcock]

BTW, the best DVD-A disc I have so far is probably "Foreigner 4". The detail is unbelievable, and the surround mix is extremely well done. I'm not much for mucking around with remixing classic albums, but they hit the bullseye here. The Doors "L.A. Woman" sounds great too, particularly "Riders on the Storm." Another great one is REMs "Automatic For the People"-great, subtle surround mix that serves the music, with a lot of presence and great bass.

I'd say the best SACD I've heard yet is DSotM by Pink Floyd. This is everything I heard in my head when I was younger!;) The bass is fantastic; clean, taut and extended. And panning some of the sounds to the rear really opens up the soundstage. The whole thing really "breathes", if you'll pardon the play on words.

I have a couple of Diana Krall SACDs that sound fantastic too, and the new Police SACDs sound terrific. Only EBYTtS is remixed for MC, but it's just as well, as many of the MC remixes on that one suck. They completely ruin "Every Breath You Take"- the stereo SACD version on Sychronicity creams it.

I'm in love with both HiRez formats, especially the (few) good MC discs out there. I'll be anxiously awaiting Nora Jones debut on SACD, due out in May. It's a superb sounding CD, and hopefully the stereo/MC SACD will top it sonically.

[Small Cars]

I'd be interested in how you find the various mods. At this point, I'm so impressed with the difference between SACD and DVD-A versus Red Book, that I haven't done much more than think about the possibility of mods. The Pioneer does do a very good job with Red Book CDs, possibly thanks to its oversampling (or upsampling) DACs. Anyway, the possibility of mods makes almost inevitable that I'll try them at some point.

As for the Pioneer, used it today to listen to DVD-A AIX recording of Nitty Gritty Surround and SACD recording of Wynton Marsalis "Hot House Flowers. The rest of my system is pretty resolving, so the Pioneer's capabilities really come through.

BTW, I also listen to vinyl; the Pioneer is the first digital player I've had that makes digital competitive with vinyl (for me, anyway).

[Rob Babcock]

Modwright is among the best in the biz, mod-wise. Perpetual Technologies actually will not only support Modwright-ed PT units under warranty, they'll even sell you one Dan's modded. That says a lot.

Modwright has a forum on Audiocircle.com; you have to be patient, as he doesn't check in every day. For a guy who does electronics mods for a living he isn't very wired!;) He is pretty stoked about the Pioneer player- as a matter of fact, he's stopped modding a lot of other units in favor of the new line of Pioneer DVD players.

[Small Cars]

Thanks. I have sent him an email to discuss scheduling.

[hifitommy]

i gra=bbed a sony ns500v dvd/sacd/cd player and the rbcd playback is reeeeely good. try fingdind a ns755v, it should be about the same.