View Full Version : Pro-ject Debut Carbon - unwanted noise


NedMerrill
01-30-2013, 11:40 AM
Just set up my new Pro-ject Debut Carbon with Ortofon 2M Red cartridge and have some questions about distortion I am hearing on new, clean records I am testing on the TT. I have limited space at the moment and am using a pretty modest, compact set-up of Pro-ject Phono Box USB V and powered desktop Audioengine 2 speakers. For lack of better terminology / description, I am hearing static-like, scratchiness on louder parts of the record, when there are multiple instruments and voice competing, particularly where guitars are concerned; it's more apparent when I raise the volume on the speakers.

I tried a new record of Tom Verlaine's Dreamtime, which is where I really noticed this unwanted noise. When I listened to new discs of Serge Gainsbourg's Histoire de Melody Nelson and Barre Phillips' Three Day Moon, much different kinds of records, a lot quieter than the Verlaine record, I didn't hear this distortion for the most part.

Is my problem that I've not properly calibrated the TT with regards to arm balance and counterweight or is it related to the limitations of speakers or bad pressings or something else altogether?

illini
01-30-2013, 05:30 PM
I would be concerned. The stylus could be worn out or dirty. Do you know the history of the Ortofon? If the stylus is new the try listening with headphones, increasing vtf to near the max.

NedMerrill
01-30-2013, 05:59 PM
I would be concerned. The stylus could be worn out or dirty. Do you know the history of the Ortofon? If the stylus is new the try listening with headphones, increasing vtf to near the max.

it's all brand-new. will try with headphones.

Dr Tinear
01-30-2013, 06:04 PM
From your description it sounds as if the Ortofon may be mistracking. Most cartridges track best in the upper half of the manufacturer's recommended tracking force range. Re-check your tracking force setting to make sure that it's correct.

Dave C
01-30-2013, 06:04 PM
I think you are tracking to light, that's what happens when things get loud or complex. Before you do anything else you need to get your tracking weight figured out. I have the 2m blue and a quarter gram greatly affects the ability to stay in the groove.

NedMerrill
01-30-2013, 06:08 PM
I think you are tracking to light, that's what happens when things get loud or complex. Before you do anything else you need to get your tracking weight figured out. I have the 2m blue and a quarter gram greatly affects the ability to stay in the groove.

OK, so the recommended downforce for the 2M Red is 17.5mN. Move it up to 18 or 19?

Dave C
01-30-2013, 06:12 PM
Make sure zero is really zero first. I'd get a scale if I were you. I had a thread a few days back on the scale I just .

NedMerrill
01-30-2013, 06:17 PM
Make sure zero is really zero first. I'd get a scale if I were you. I had a thread a few days back on the scale I just .

OK, thanks. A friend has a Shure SFG-2 Stylus Tracking Force Gauge, which he offered to loan me.

Dave C
01-30-2013, 06:17 PM
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=497343

Check here

Bob_in_OKC
01-30-2013, 06:37 PM
OK, so the recommended downforce for the 2M Red is 17.5mN. Move it up to 18 or 19?

I would indeed try it at 19. Also - you may want to give it a few hours of play to see if it is going to break in a little or stay the same.

NedMerrill
01-30-2013, 06:49 PM
I would indeed try it at 19. Also - you may want to give it a few hours of play to see if it is going to break in a little or stay the same.

Thanks, Bob. For a newbie like me, just how does this "breaking in" occur?

Bob_in_OKC
01-30-2013, 07:05 PM
Thanks, Bob. For a newbie like me, just how does this "breaking in" occur?

There is a somewhat common perception that cartridges can loosen up and track better after they've been in use for a while. Some people believe it can take quite a few hours. The concept of break-in is common in audio. The most likely candidate for such a thing with a cartridge is probably the stylus suspension.

NedMerrill
01-30-2013, 07:13 PM
There is a somewhat common perception that cartridges can loosen up and track better after they've been in use for a while. Some people believe it can take quite a few hours. The concept of break-in is common in audio. The most likely candidate for such a thing with a cartridge is probably the stylus suspension.

I'd heard this, but didn't know the reasoning behind it. Thanks.

illini
01-30-2013, 07:14 PM
"breaking in"

I have never had a problem with new styli causing unwanted noise.

huge logo
01-30-2013, 07:22 PM
There is a somewhat common perception that cartridges can loosen up and track better after they've been in use for a while. Some people believe it can take quite a few hours. The concept of break-in is common in audio. The most likely candidate for such a thing with a cartridge is probably the stylus suspension.

I agree with this completely. I found it to be true last time I bought a new cartridge. It sounded kinda fuzzy-- especially the high end. I suspected that playing it polished any grime or dust off of it that I could not clean off myself. Even tho it is new it could still have residue on it etc from when it was made. Now that stereo sounds amazing and I just moved it into the main room. It only took a few hours play in my experience.

Add to that headphone listening which will typically amplify any flaw in a system and you may want to throw your stereo out the window but hopefully it is just a new stylus breaking in. But it is good to remember that headphones will let you hear things you typically won't hear through speakers. Good and bad.

iLUVanalog
01-30-2013, 07:22 PM
From your description it sounds as if the Ortofon may be mistracking. Most cartridges track best in the upper half of the manufacturer's recommended tracking force range. Re-check your tracking force setting to make sure that it's correct.




I agree 100% with the Doc and as a matter of routine, that's exactly what I do. With the Denon DL110 I currently have in use, the top of the VTF range is 2.1 grams and I have my VTF set right at 2.0 grams with excellent results.

fiddlefye
01-30-2013, 07:36 PM
Mistracking sounds like the diagnosis to me as well. Most cartridges track better on the heavier side of the published range on most arms. Once you have things dialed in to the point where it is tracking properly without distorting in the heavier going then you can fine tune it by ear to get the tonal balance just right. Ok, how I do things at any rate.

skyline315
01-30-2013, 08:35 PM
I have the exact same setup (Ned and I both received our new toys around the same time) and haven't experienced this. The instruction manual recommends 17.5 mN and I think the Ortofon literature recommends 18? Regardless, I have mine set somewhere in between the two.

I'd bet that it wasn't zero'd properly before the tracking force was set. Then again, maybe my ears just aren't as good as picking up on these things.

Very curious to hear what the gauge has to say once you've used it. I don't have one available to try...

Bob_in_OKC
01-30-2013, 09:35 PM
I have the exact same setup (Ned and I both received our new toys around the same time) and haven't experienced this. The instruction manual recommends 17.5 mN and I think the Ortofon literature recommends 18? Regardless, I have mine set somewhere in between the two.

I'd bet that it wasn't zero'd properly before the tracking force was set. Then again, maybe my ears just aren't as good as picking up on these things.

Very curious to hear what the gauge has to say once you've used it. I don't have one available to try...

This is an entirely likely scenario. It's not always a piece o' cake to be sure you've floated the arm exactly right before you set the dial to zero. It is very common practice to run cartridges a little heavier than the center of the recommended range, but it's also possible it's currently at less than that.

ScaleAutoArt
01-31-2013, 12:45 AM
One last thing to check...the que damping. Mine will fail to bottom out sometimes and I have to help it along by moving the arm over and adding a tad of pressure. It's rare but happens [just like the motor reversing on start up at times...again rare...but it has happened]. As the table breaks in I have had a lot less of this occur.

And try setting the tracking at 1.9.

Just a thought...:scratch2:

loneknight66
02-18-2013, 12:56 AM
Hi Guys, I bought the Debut carbon only a couple of days ago and some noise issues came from start...and now I think ( after reading many Threads) that the problem is fixed.
It was a low but annoying and persistent humming when the turntable was switched on regardeless to the fact that the tonearm was on the recod or not...(you could hear the noise however at the very beggining and at the very end..)...
I found out the in the recent models because the new motor screws are not to be removed ( as per shop assistant's instruction) as they are not transport screws but actually fix the motor....without those screw there are apparently some vibrations that cause the noise.....( hope I mad myself understood :-) Giovanni