I've had a crappy week. Health problems (the joy of type II diabetes). Had the task of telling my mother (who's on vacation in New Mexico) that one of her best friends passed away. Other crap to numerous to mention.

In the middle of this, the Technics SL-1700Mk2 I ordered off eBay arrived. I knew I wasn't getting a gem but a bargain for my $95 with shipping, but it was rougher than I expected. They did double-box it, and had it well padded, but ignored the tips I passed on on packing it, as well as the instructions in the manual (included with the table) on how to prepare it for moving.

I gave it a quick once-over, but in the mood I'm in I really don't want to deal with it right away. Here's a few quick questions, and I'll get back on it when I'm able to deal with it.

1) They didn't remove the headshell. They didn't even put the stylus guard down before the wrapped bubble wrap around the arm. The cantilever is FUBAR. The headshell is a Audio-Technica, the cart that needs the new stylus is an Acutex M107E. A quick search online & I didn't spot a replacement stylus for sale. Worth chasing down a replacement stylus or should I replace the cart? Worth getting a Technics headshell to try out along with this AT shell? Its been too bloody long since I had anything other than a P-mount table, and its all a little daunting at this point. My digital camera doesn't have a macro setting; sorry for the photo quality.

2) I've got an Ortofon Concorde cart (that needs a new stylus) that I tried out, that installs directly onto the end of the arm without a headshell. It was too light to balance the arm; according to the manual, I seem to be missing an extra weight for the arm for use with light-weight carts. Anyone have a spare so I can try out the Concorde?

3) It powers up, the speed and pitch controlls work too. The cuing and stop buttons don't do a thing, and I was unable to trip the auto return. Anyone dealt with this problem before? Guess I can use it manual in the meantime. Auction stated the only problem was a cracked dust cover.

Right now its back on the shelf until I'm in a better mood, but some information in the meantime would help -- Foe

If the seller misrepresented the condition of the turntable I think you're owed a refund. $95 plus shipping is way too dear for an unusable turntable.

The Mk2 turntables are notorious for developing cue problems.

There is a small belt at the base of the tonearm mechanism (remove the platter and the plastic panel underneath it and you'll see it) that controls the cueing and arm return that deteriorates over time. You can find a replacement easily (don't recall the sources, but it shouldn't be too difficult), or if all else fails, you can use a small rubber band in a pinch. (I have, and it worked fine.)

I just got a Shure M97xE (and a genuine Technics replacement head shell) that I'm using on a 1300Mk2 and I really like it. Amazon is selling the Shure for about $60, and you can order a head shell directly from Panasonic (tell 'em you need it for a 1200Mk2, as it's the exact same part) for about $20.

There was a rubber ring about an inch round with a break in it, and several sections of a different small rubber belt, under the table but inside the bubble wrap, when I unpacked it. I suspected these might be related to the problem, but forgot to mention them. I'm guessing that it was working when it was listed for sale, but the belt broke in shipping since they didn't fasten down the transport screws. I had researched the model before I started including it my eBay searches; it is the 1300Mk2, 1400Mk2, and 1500Mk2 that have the hard-to-repair cue problems.

Tleilax, you have information about a source for the replacement belt at http://www.vintagetechnics.com/turntables/sl1700mk2.htm, that looks to be up-to-date, thanks. Also, would the headshell for sale at http://www.theturntablefactory.com/technics.html be an OK choice?

I found a page at http://www.audio-technica.co.jp/products/cartridge/at-lt13a.html that has a photo of what looks like my headshell. It has four pairs of threaded holes on the underside, with no way to adjust the angle of the cart within the shell -- Foe

Acutex, if memory serves, was a short lived cartridge manufacturer that doesn't stand out in my memory as being particularly noteworthy. Ditch it. You at least owe yourself the joy of a new cartridge, perhaps a Grado Black or spring for an AT440ML ($85)

I wouldn't sweat the headshell issue. I'm not wild about Technics' stock headshells anyway, as they only allow you to move forward and backwards and not tilt the cartridge to align with a protractor easily.

If the platter turns at 33.3 and the arm goes up and down and side to side as it should, and the cueing belt gets changed, you're good to go. I dont' think you can blame a seller for the cueing belt...they all go to hell and if the original ones aren't broken, they soon will be.

If you aren't happy with the table, I might consider buying it. I've been sorta wanting a nice vintage Technics.

I'm home sick today with a fever (prob'ly why I felt so crappy yesterday) and made a quick check on that belt. It is missing, and the motor is engaging when the stop or cue button is pressed. Looks like a new cue belt, cart, and perhaps a headshell & I'm good to go. I think Mr. Toad's here in town carries the Grado carts and could help me out.

Also would like to try out my Ortofon Concorde cart if someone has that extra arm weight sitting around. Found a post with photo about it at http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=21111.

Thanks for the offer, Louis, but I want to give it a try once I feel better and am up to getting it working. If I am still not happy I'll keep you in mind -- Foe

I was just looking on the Panasonic parts web site. I can get the headshell, extra headshell weight, and some oil for the platter bearing from the list of SL-1200Mk2 parts. Would the SL-1200Mk2 dust cover fit my table? I know it is taller and has the bump over the arm pivot, but if the hinges and other dimentions are the same.... It's an idea.

I figured out the extra weight at the back of the arm won't help me use the light-weight Concorde; I need more weight at the cart end and without a head shell I'm not sure how I'd get it there -- Foe

The 1200Mk2 dust cover/hinges will fit the 1700Mk2 just fine. I've done that myself in the past. As far as getting headshells from Joel--since it is Joel we're talking about--I think they'd be just as good as the Technics.

I don't know about the 1700 but my 1600 Mk2 has an extra weight screwed into the very back end of the arm, it is about 1/2" long. Unscrew that and you can balance most decent cartridges.

Rob

My table is the semi-auto version of your full-auto 1600Mk2. Its missing the extra weight at the back end of the arm (there's a hole there to screw it into), but still can't balance the light-weight no-head-shell Ortofon Concorde cart. I'm gonna have to find some way to add some extra weight onto the front end of the arm, or give up on using the Concorde. Its really more of a DJ cart, but I've got it sitting around and would like to give it a spin.

Acutex actually made some really nice carts, but the 110 was their intro model, your 107 must be from a newer line?

Their 3XX III STR (think it was 312, not sure therefore the XXs) was quite a decent cart, but I'd not waste money on a stylus, too many good sounding affordable MMs out there to mess with an older line.

My 1700MKII has been serving me well for over 25 years, have been using a green rubber band since 82 or so when the tonearm belt broke. Yes, you need to replace the rubber band every couple of years, but it works, no one can see them anyway, and it's practically free.

Enjoy, Ray

I'm yet another 1700 Mk 2 owner that fixed his cuing with a small rubber band. Works fine. So easy it's funny. Remember there's a lock near the tonearm base that needs to be released.

Near as I can figure, the 1700 Mk 2 is a non-DJ version of the 1200 Mk-whatever. Same basic dimensions, same arm, same motor. I do wish it had a manual cuing lever.

Get the oil, but unless you're a stickler for originality, I'd pass on the Technics headshell-- it's just too stinkin' heavy, unless of course you're trying to balance an ultralight cartridge. Try hanging a dense mass from the arm near the pivot rather than drill out the counterweight or put a penny on the headshell.

You're going to like this 'table.

Sorry to hear about your mishap...

I suggest you get a new cart. The old one even if unused for long periods will suffer from degradation due to aging of internal bonding materials. I recommend an entry level Audio Technica. The AT440ML would be ideal (around $80).

The AT carts should work fine with your arm. In case you need to add a spacer for extra weight, I suggest you cut a small piece of balsa wood. I used a small lightweight wooden ruler and cut a piece of it. Use the wood between headshell and cart. Works wonders. I use one on my setup with superb results.

Get yourself a Shure Stylus Pressure gauge. Around 20 bucks and worth every penny. Don't trust the markings on the counterweight...

Finally, don't forget to align the cartridge properly. Fortunately there are printable protractors online that are easy to use and free. I use the "Enjoy The Music" version.

Good luck and don't dispair, once you get your table setup right, it's worth it!!

A) The fever broke, so I'm feeling better but not 100%.

B) I took the old cart off the Audio-Technica headshell and broke one of the wires in the process. They are old and brittle and need replacing anyway.

B) I went to the local hi-fi shop. Mr. Toad's, and bought a Grado Black. I took my Audio-Technica headshell with me, and we discovered it wouldn't work with the Grado; the bolts with the cart didn't fit the headshell, and vice-versa. They had a Technics headshell in the back room that looked as good as new (and had a set of wires on it) that they also sold me.

C) I tried putting a rubber band on the SL-1700Mk2 in place of the cuing belt. I discovered that this operation was much more difficult than it looked, and that none of the rubber bands I had around were small enough. I tried doubling one up but that didn't work.

D) I installed the Grado on the Technics headshell, using the 52mm overhang suggested in the manual. I measured the Grado cart at 17mm tall and set the arm height at 2 per the manual. I balanced the arm and then set the tracking weight and anti-skate to 1.5 (then repeated the process without the stylus cover). I checked the lateral tracking with a protractor and it looked spot on.

E) I tested the 1700 with a record and my ancient Panasonic amp and it sounded groovy. A definite improvement over my old p-mount table. Perhaps a p-mount Grado Black would help it out as well.

Next up is getting the cue belt replaced (finding a smaller rubber band), and then moving it into its new home in the bedroom system, making sure to level it. I'm also gonna keep an eye out for a new dust cover on eBay. Lots of people don't use them with their 1200 so perhaps I'll find a bargain. If not, then I'll order one with some oil from Panasonic.

Now I'm having fun with my new toy. :yes: Thanks for all the help, y'all -- Foe

Glad to hear you're up and doing and have the 1700-2 likewise.

C) I tried putting a rubber band on the SL-1700Mk2 in place of the cuing belt. I discovered that this operation was much more difficult than it looked, and that none of the rubber bands I had around were small enough. I tried doubling one up but that didn't work.
I have small hands; maybe that's why this didn't seem difficult at all to me. I've been trying to figure out why you might have difficulty slipping a rubber band over the pulleys, but whatever the reason, go to Walgreen's and get a bag of miscellaneous-size rubber bands. One will fit. It doesn't have to be any thicker than the little rubber bands kids used to use on their braces. Then bingo, you can watch the arm do its thing, and it's beautiful to watch.

Let us know if you still have trouble. Take pictures as necessary.

I've got short chubby fingers, so I had trouble getting at the larger, white pulley. I'll go on a rubber band quest tomorrow.

You can also try any place that sells belts for cassette recorders and/or CD players, some of the smaller belts will work there just fine.

Rob

Yes, Foe, small rubber bands work wonders in this instance. Right before my dad retired his '79 SL-1700MK2 (due to a move in '99), it had performed flawlessly all these 20 years, up until the cueing belt broke. At the time he was rather rushed due to the move and didn't bother looking for a replacement belt...a tiny green rubber band was all it took, and it's still in place to this day doing its thing in grand style!

How's the Grado Black holding up thus far on the Technics headshell? Is it really as good sounding as reviewers claim?

Enjoy... ;)

The Grado Black is working and sounding great, but I think I'd have had a better time getting it right where I wanted it on the Technics headshell with slightly larger diameter bolts than those supplied with the Grado. I'd get the overhang right and the cart centered, but then it would shift as I tightened the bolts.

I see you are using a record clamp with your table; I noticed that the manual for the SL-1700Mk2 said not to use one, that the extra weight would throw off the built-in damping ;) -- Foe

Thanks for your Grado response, since I'm contemplating purchasing a new cartridge to replaced my aging (and discontinued) Stanton 981HZS.

To quote the manual: "Do not use a stabilizer since it may lessen the effects of the double floating structure employed in this unit."

I never even noticed that statement before! But I have to admit that either with the clamp in place or off during playback, I've heard absolutely no difference in overall sound due to acoustic feedback or room vibrations. Since my 'table is sitting level on a sturdy steel and glass audio rack placed on a bare solid concrete floor (the original carpet was removed due a small flood from Hurricane Jeanne last year), I have no creeky flexing floorboards to concern myself about. The clamp doesn't seem to throw off the doubledamped isolation suspension used throughout the 'table's base at all.

Technics was afraid that by increasing the effective mass of the platter you'd also be increasing the effective mass of the suspended subchassis and change its resonant frequency, which presumably had been carefully chosen to fall into a range least susceptible to acoustic feedback. But a record clamp isn't [usually] very massive and won't be a problem. I used to use an inverted lowboy drinking glass to push the records against the mat and that never created a problem either.

Ah, dads and their SL-1700 Mk2s. I hope I can pass mine on to my son, but he's got to develop some serious audiophile ears first.

Strong recommendation for both of you and any other Technics tt owners: Consider getting either a Shure cartridge with their Dynamic Stabilizer or else making or buying a damper for the Technics' tonearm. Once you've tried a damped system you will never ever want to go back. Just watching a cartridge waddle and twitch over even small warps will convince you.

..."Consider getting either a Shure cartridge with their Dynamic Stabilizer or else making or buying a damper for the Technics' tonearm. Once you've tried a damped system you will never ever want to go back. Just watching a cartridge waddle and twitch over even small warps will convince you."
Would you care to elaborate on this "damper" for the tonearm? I'm not familiar with this device and what it actually does. If one isn't made, where would you purchase one, and at what cost?

Thanks...

I was afraid you were going to ask that. How about this (http://www.kabusa.com/td1200.htm)? Warning: not cheap.

But you can make your own based on the same general idea. This was famously detailed in an issue of the Boston Audio Society's newsletter [S.L. Phoenix, The Role of Damping in Tonearm/Cartridge Performance (http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/pdf/bass/BASS-03-04-7501b.pdf), BAS Speaker, Jan. 1975]. There's lots of stuff on arm damping on Google too.

.

I got a blue rubber band (how appropriate) working as the cue belt. I could just sit there and cue the arm up and down all day. I'll have some photos to upload soon -- Foe

I got a blue rubber band working as the cue belt.
[dances Irish jig; dedicates it to this demonstration of the small ways in which we can revenge ourselves on crappy days]

Yeah, my biggest complaint about the 1700Mk2 (and I got one NEW back in 1980) has always been that they didn't provide a manual cueing lever. The 1800Mk2 had one, and so did the 1600Mk2. Why the heck did they leave it off the 1700Mk2?!?

I think they must've been hypnotized by the sight of the motorized arm going up and down.

Ah foetusized- you still haven't heard this table sound its best :no:

Everyone knows the GREEN rubberband produces the best sound... :)

Please. Blue is sonically superior to green in this application. Indigo would have been optimal, but I used what I had. ;)

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42161&stc=1

Here's a nude of the SL-1700Mk2, with the cover under the platter removed. The blue rubber band I just put on can be seen, on the white pulley at the far right of the opening.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=42162&stc=1

The first spin in its new home, in the "mancave" corner of the master bedroom. The shelf is only 14" deep, and the 15" deep table just fit. I was amazed that the platter checked out completely level with no adjustment (that's the level at the front left corner of the photo).

All I have dug out of storage so far is a small box of 7" vinyl, so I chose the Magical Mystery Tour EP for the first play, "I am the Walrus" to be exact. On first try, I got Ringo in the left channel but no strings in the right. I took some more DeOxIt and ProGold to the headshell and arm contacts and reattached the headshell, and got both channels on the second try. Sounded great, with clean channel separation. Much better than my old SL-BD22 with the p-mount Pickering cart was doing.
:banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2: :banana2:

Last step in this project is to get the 12" vinyl out of the junk room and figure out where to keep it such that I can get to it. I have lots of 12" singles from the 80s that have never been reissued on CD, that I am sure glad I have kept all these years -- Foe

PS: After looking at some information on damping on the 'net, I think a Shure M97xE will be my next cart purchase. Could end up with a collection of carts on headshells to swap onto this machine. :yes: Don't think that arm damping thing with the open well of fluid is feasable with a 4 year old in the house. She'd make a mess of that in no time.

Don't think that arm damping thing with the open well of fluid is feasable with a 4 year old in the house. She'd make a mess of that in no time.
Depends on whether she prefers to play with Dad's toys or Mom's. My toddler boys dispatched a Shure V15 Type V with its exotic beryllium cantilever in short order and left my $2 homemade oil damper untouched. Finally was able to afford to replace the Shure stylus 20 years later (argh!). Never mind damping devices feeling threatened-- it may be that with kids in the house, no turntable is safe..

Now, it must be said that the Shure Dynamic Stabilizer does make noise, and this noise can be heard, however faintly, in the audio during very quiet passages. Other than that, it's a clever and devastatingly effective way to make a well-made but rather heavy arm behave. Keeps the record clean and bleeds off static charge, too. So I second your idea of getting the M97xe.

If you can swing the cash, the upgrade to the now-discontinued V15 V would be well worth it. I loved my ADC 10E Mk IV and my Sonus Blue, but the V made them sound like, well, phono cartridges. Whatever you decide, keep us posted.

Oh yes, get some lighter-weight headshells. They're cheap these days. The lower mass makes a difference in how effective any given amount of damping is.

UPDATE: Foetusized posted a couple of very nice photos of his 1700 II, including a decent shot of the innards visible with the platter off, but a server crash wiped them out. Fortunately I saved them for reference. Here's a cropped view of the area around the motor and pulley in question: It's the bluish area, centered vertically, about 2/3 of the way over from the left. The motor body is black (under that diagonal-going yellow wire) and it's held in place by a little sheetmetal cage. Look for the small brass motor pulley (barely visible) and the much bigger white plastic arm-drive pulley to its right. You can see Foetusized's little blue rubber band with tiny white letters on it running horizontally across the top of the pulleys.

Your job: reach under there and flip on a small rubber band (assuming the original belt has disappeared-- if it hasn't, grab it with tweezers and get it out of there). If your hands are big, get one of your kids to do it.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/heildriver/SL-1700internals.jpg

Used my wife's HP 635 Photosmart. 2.1 megapixels, but no macro setting. Turned off the flash and took the shade off the lamp; photos of gear don't turn out well when I use the flash.

Part of the reason the table ended up in the bedroom system instead of the living room system was to keep the little fingers off it. It's on a high shelf, with a towel over the top when not in use. She knows better than to play with daddy's toys in his room, but I know her, and any open container with something in it is an invitation for a little finger.

How's the 1700 coming along? Got that Shure yet?

I'm still using the Grado with the Shure on my "wish list."

Currently, I'm having problems with the suspension. Last week, when I put it on the shelf that's its new home, everything worked fine and the platter was level. Now the springs in front are now hanging too low. The platter went out of level, and started rubbing against the base of the table. Last night I jury-rigged it with some bubble-wrap under the table, but would like a more elegant solution. I'm afraid the suspension was damaged when it was shipped without the transport screws in place nor any attempt to fasten it down -- Foe

I'm doing OK with the bubble wrap, but it would be nice if someone could share some knowledge on how to adjust the suspension on this table. Thanks much -- Foe

Assuming the shelf is level and big enough for the 'table, we have to figure out a way to stiffen the saggy springs. It's either replace or stiffen them (maybe with tie-wraps on the coils) or put in the transport screws and unsuspend the subchassis. EDIT: Nah. The suspension on this table is adjusted from the bottom with a deep 7mm hex socket.

.

Well, I ended up getting a second SL-1700Mk2 via eBay for parts. It has a scratched-up but uncracked dust cover, which I've already swapped over (using the other's hinges which were in better shape). The platter on the new one was also in better shape and spins truer than the older. It also had the auxilliary weight for the back of the arm and another Technics headshell. It turned out to be cheaper than getting the parts I needed seperately, plus I can keep it around for future part scavanging.

The new one has some issues. The VTA adjustment is stuck in place, as is the suspension. I'm still hoping to figure out how the suspension works and get the front end on the older one working better. The new one doesn't have the 120/240 voltage switch that my older one has; I didn't realize there were two different versions.

As an added bonus, a cartridge was included, when the auction said he was unable to test the table because he didn't have a cart (gotta love eBay). It's a Stanton of some sort, but there's no marking so I don't know which model. Stylus looks like this one without the lettering on the side -- http://www.needledoctor.com/s.nl/sc.2/category.76/it.A/id.1905/.f -- and a gold body. After testing it on some junk records, it seems to be working fine and sounding pretty good. I still have the Shure M97xE and AudioTechnica 440ML carts on my wish list, and have headshells ready to go for both of them -- Foe

So how are the 1700's working out? Any updates for us?

I've got one good 1700mk2 working using the best parts of both, and am hanging onto the other for parts (I have not been able to suss out the stuck VTA adjustment). I figured out how to adjust the stiffness of the springs using the parts table, then applied what I learned to the one I'm using, so the platter is now level. I've purchased a variety of cartridges and headshells (currently running a Shure M97xE on a Technics headshell) which will come in handy when I get a second TT for the living room system. Latest purchase was a Nagaoka record clamp which is working well.

Someone's had a new cuing belt for a 1600mk2 up for sale on eBay for $8 BIN shipping included, which I'm guessing would work on my 1700mk2, but I decided to leave well enough alone. As I was taught in engineering school, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Foe, glad to hear your SL-1700MK2 is still up and running, and that you're likin' the M97xE.

I'm still using my long-discontinued Stanton 981HZS and my very last replacement stylus (both ca. '84); once that's worn, I'm SOL unless I wanna pay a whopping $224 for one of the last few NOS D98S styli still available anywhere via StereoNeedles.com! For that price I could buy a new Sumiko Blue Point MC or some other higher-end cartridge.

Recently replaced the headshell's original worn out leads with brand new Sumiko HS-29 silk covered OFC headshell leads with brass tips. Doubt anyone could hear any difference (unless you're the golden-eared type), but they do look cool!

Here's some images of my table that used to be in this thread, before the server meltdown of last year.

:yes:

very nice technics tt replace the belt for the lift and you are good to go
sould mine last month due to rent.
but still have left 4 technics dd tt

I have not been able to suss out the stuck VTA adjustment..
Be sure that LOCK is off, then brace yourself, get a good grip, and apply force both ccw and cw. Mine didn't want to move either, but it's just a big helical with old dried grease. Once it breaks free it'll work fine. The trick is to not apply so much force that you slip and hit something.


Latest purchase was a Nagaoka record clamp which is working well.
Is the Nagaoka a lightweight clamp?

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Are they actually adjustable, or did you have to clip and shim?They are adjustable. There's a bolt in the center of each spring (accessable from the underside) that adjusts the stiffness of each spring. It took some time with a 9/32 inch nut-driver to get it all adjusted, but my platter is now level and the base up off the shelf.


Is the Nagaoka a lightweight clamp?The model I got is; I think they made several models. It's lightweight plastic and rubber, and uses a chuck to grip the spindle. It's almost too lightweight; sometimes when I put it on or take it off, I'm afraid I'm going to break it. But, so far, it's getting the job done. Between the clamp and the M97xE with the damper, warped records are playing much better. Flat records sound pretty darn good too. Attached are the photos from the eBay auction I bought mine from.

They are adjustable. There's a bolt in the center of each spring (accessable from the underside) that adjusts the stiffness of each spring.
Cool, thanks for getting your hands dirty and finding out for us. That's very good to know.


9/32 inch nut-driver
Really? Not metric?


[My Nagaoka record clamp is] almost too lightweight; sometimes when I put it on or take it off, I'm afraid I'm going to break it. But, so far, it's getting the job done.
Ah. Thanks for the photos.

Really? Not metric?
Don't have a metric set, and 9/32 did the job.

Thunderstorms are rolling in; gonna sign off and power down -- Foe