View Full Version : Record Doctor V RCM On AudioAdvisor


Twanx
04-08-2013, 08:38 PM
Anyone have one of these? Or one of the previous versions?

I am very interested in buying one, but most reviews I can find reference an older model and -minor- problems they have with it. Would love to hear some recent feedback.

Based on what I've read they're basically OEM'd Nitty Grittys. It doesn't bother me in the least that it's manual operation.

If it works well its a steal at $199 w/ free shipping. I'm an avid thrifter and vinyl enthusiast with no good way to clean records currently-only a CF brush and an "In The Groove" roller that's losing its tack.

please help! Thanks!

dosmalo
04-08-2013, 08:55 PM
I've had one for over ten years and have absolutely no problems with mine.
If I remember correctly AudioAdvisor included a gallon of cleaner with it back then.
I think it has been a great value.

Twanx
04-08-2013, 09:02 PM
Very cool. I actually have my finger hovering over the checkout button.

I never thought I would be able to afford an RCM in any form. I considered building one but I don't have the patience.

Hotrodster
04-08-2013, 09:09 PM
Mine arrived last week.
Works good, I use spin clean first then vacuum dry. Seems to be a good match.
Was looking at the KAB EV1, but for a few dollars more, after shipping and tax, went with the built in vacuum

majick47
04-08-2013, 09:15 PM
I had one and it worked very well, in fact close to my big $ aoto Nitty Gritty and VPI.

kirk57
04-08-2013, 09:17 PM
I have a fully manual Nitty Gritty and a Record Doctor (older one from the early 90's)

No difference really, except the Nitty Gritty has a nicer wood wrap around the outside.

BTW the KAB 'Gliding Platter' is a worthwhile upgrade, if you get it.

http://www.kabusa.com/

Twanx
04-08-2013, 09:28 PM
I had one and it worked very well, in fact close to my big $ aoto Nitty Gritty and VPI.

Interesting, in what ways are those machines better? From my perspective, it seems to me that these machines all operate basically the same sans the automatic features. Just curious. The price difference is big to me

gary7
04-08-2013, 09:32 PM
I also have an earlier Record Doctor that I use with a Spin Clean. Love it. At $199 it is the best deal going, better grab it before they are gone.

Twanx
04-08-2013, 09:37 PM
No difference really, except the Nitty Gritty has a nicer wood wrap around the outside.

BTW the KAB 'Gliding Platter' is a worthwhile upgrade, if you get it.

Thanks for the pointer, that upgrade is cheap too, I was prepared to cringe at price.

New owners, Is the cleaning fluid that's included any good? Should I buy a different kind?

illini
04-08-2013, 10:23 PM
please help! Thanks!

Go for it. Use it as much as possible during the warranty period in order to check it out.

JonL
04-08-2013, 10:32 PM
Hate to be a contrarian, but I have a Record Doctor RCM and I am really disappointed with it. I've made my case in many other threads, but the synopsis:
1. Dirty side of the record contacts the vacuum "lips" while the other side is being wetted/scrubbed. The velvet lips around the vacuum almost always leave a line of debris on the record wherever the rotation stops.
2. Rather clumsy way of turning the record. I used to get sore after cleaning half a dozen records, then I added my own rolling element thrust bearing that made a world of difference.
3. Doesn't seem to really suck off all the fluid. I'm always left with a haze of fluid dampness on the record that takes about 5 minutes to fully evaporate.
4. Ridiculously hard to drain. The drain hole is tiny. The inside of the case has a flat bottom, so the waste fluid doesn't run to the hole. You have to hold the whole machine over the sink and shake the bejeezus out of it to get even some of the fluid out of the thing.
5. I'm less than impressed with the results. I haven't tried any other RCMs, but the way most folks describe them, they're like the second coming. This one doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference in the sound of the records to me. Too many records come of the RCM with ticks, pops, and crackle, even with no visible cause.
6. It's unpleasantly loud.

I think a small shop vac and a slotted crevice tool plus a beater turntable would do a better job at 1/5 the price.

illini
04-08-2013, 10:48 PM
Hate to be a contrarian,

I disagree.

Twanx
04-08-2013, 10:49 PM
Very interesting. This is good information. What version of the machine do you have? If earlier version perhaps these problems have been addressed?

I already have a gutted TT on hand but I'm not much of a DIYer-- I don't have the tools or space to do it right. The gutted TT would still be a good place for pre-clean with the machine.

Twanx
04-08-2013, 11:49 PM
Whatever! I bought the demo model they were selling for $175 with free shipping. I'm sure I will be happy with the results compared to my current method of basically nothing. Besides, I could do a lot worse for $175.. Only a little more than a spin-clean even.

I'm excited to get some old favorites shined up :thmbsp:

JonL
04-09-2013, 12:13 AM
Very interesting. This is good information. What version of the machine do you have? If earlier version perhaps these problems have been addressed?

I already have a gutted TT on hand but I'm not much of a DIYer-- I don't have the tools or space to do it right. The gutted TT would still be a good place for pre-clean with the machine.

I'm not sure what I have. I bought it used (but like new condition) off Audiogon a couple of years ago. I think it's basically the same as current production, thought they may have improved the "platter" bearing in much the same way as my DIY solution (a needle thrust bearing from an RX-7 rotary engine).

kirk57
04-09-2013, 06:40 AM
Hate to be a contrarian, but I have a Record Doctor RCM and I am really disappointed with it. I've made my case in many other threads, but the synopsis:
1. Dirty side of the record contacts the vacuum "lips" while the other side is being wetted/scrubbed. The velvet lips around the vacuum almost always leave a line of debris on the record wherever the rotation stops.
2. Rather clumsy way of turning the record. I used to get sore after cleaning half a dozen records, then I added my own rolling element thrust bearing that made a world of difference.
3. Doesn't seem to really suck off all the fluid. I'm always left with a haze of fluid dampness on the record that takes about 5 minutes to fully evaporate.
4. Ridiculously hard to drain. The drain hole is tiny. The inside of the case has a flat bottom, so the waste fluid doesn't run to the hole. You have to hold the whole machine over the sink and shake the bejeezus out of it to get even some of the fluid out of the thing.
5. I'm less than impressed with the results. I haven't tried any other RCMs, but the way most folks describe them, they're like the second coming. This one doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference in the sound of the records to me. Too many records come of the RCM with ticks, pops, and crackle, even with no visible cause.
6. It's unpleasantly loud.

I think a small shop vac and a slotted crevice tool plus a beater turntable would do a better job at 1/5 the price.

FWIW I never apply the fluid or scrub the record when it's on the machine. I put the record on a towel to do that so I can put some pressure on the brush and get it really clean.

Agree about the difficulty turning the record. that's why I recommended the KAB Gliding Platter.

No idea why yours isn't picking up all the fluid. Mine has LOTS of suction.

and yes, it is loud, as is the Nitty Gritty, and yes it's probably possible to build something (that would require a shop vac in the room with you), for less.

Art K.
04-09-2013, 07:13 AM
Hate to be a contrarian, but I have a Record Doctor RCM and I am really disappointed with it. I've made my case in many other threads, but the synopsis:
1. Dirty side of the record contacts the vacuum "lips" while the other side is being wetted/scrubbed. The velvet lips around the vacuum almost always leave a line of debris on the record wherever the rotation stops.
2. Rather clumsy way of turning the record. I used to get sore after cleaning half a dozen records, then I added my own rolling element thrust bearing that made a world of difference.
3. Doesn't seem to really suck off all the fluid. I'm always left with a haze of fluid dampness on the record that takes about 5 minutes to fully evaporate.
4. Ridiculously hard to drain. The drain hole is tiny. The inside of the case has a flat bottom, so the waste fluid doesn't run to the hole. You have to hold the whole machine over the sink and shake the bejeezus out of it to get even some of the fluid out of the thing.
5. I'm less than impressed with the results. I haven't tried any other RCMs, but the way most folks describe them, they're like the second coming. This one doesn't seem to make a whole lot of difference in the sound of the records to me. Too many records come of the RCM with ticks, pops, and crackle, even with no visible cause.
6. It's unpleasantly loud.

I think a small shop vac and a slotted crevice tool plus a beater turntable would do a better job at 1/5 the price.

Sounds just like my old Nitty Gritty 1.0. I loved it. Might have to buy this new one.

Sandbar92
04-09-2013, 07:53 AM
I've had my Record Doctor for 6 years and have cleaned more than 600 of my own lp's plus some for friends. I've never had an issue with it in any respect. The manual operation does not phase me in the least - if I was so lazy to turn it manually then I don't deserve one at all. The fluid in the resevoir always evaps so I've never drained it.
I've been 100% satisfied and if the day comes when mine fails I'd buy another one without a second thought. Paid $300 for mine so for $200 do not hesitate. BTW, I've bought replacement brushes and Pure 2 fluid from Nitty Gritty - it's essentially a Nitty gritty machine. Buying one of these to me is a no-brainer!

beatcomber
04-09-2013, 07:59 AM
I just pulled the trigger on one... it should make a nice combo with my Spin-Clean.

ra7c7er
04-09-2013, 08:19 AM
I'm considering this. I can't afford it right now but it's better than what I am currently doing.

If it is to loud you can always replace the fan with a quieter one granted you might lose some suction power. Although based on what I have seen with computers you will probably be able to find a quieter fan with more suction power.

Dr Tinear
04-09-2013, 08:31 AM
I have a first-generation Record Doctor that I bought in the 1990s. I added the KAB Gliding Platter bearing and the acrylic dust cover shortly after buying the machine. The machine does a great job of cleaning my records, is easy to use, and has never given me any trouble. The only maintenance I've had to do is an occasional replacement of the vacuum sweeps on either side of the suction slot. If the new machine is as good as the original, it looks like a real bargain for $199.

Sandbar92
04-09-2013, 09:13 AM
Congrats, Beatcomber! $200 well spent! For those concerned with the vacuum noise it makes, it's only for a few seconds - you do not leave it on except when you are vacuuming after the manual rotation of spreading the cleaning fluid. I don't know what the instructions say with the new unit, but I've changed my method of cleaning by putting on the Pure 2, then brushing it in back and forth in both directions while rotating it, then I hold the brush on the lp for several manual rotations, then flip it over and manually rotate it for 5 or 6 rotations with the vacuum on. I recently demoed it for a friend on the Poco Just ForYou lp which looked pristine until I played it and was noisy as hell. After I cleaned it, 99% of the surface noise was history.

beatcomber
04-09-2013, 10:03 AM
Congrats, Beatcomber! $200 well spent!

Thank you! :thmbsp:

I love my Spin-Clean, but it seems to loosen rather than remove dirt. Inevitably the first play after Spin-Cleaning leaves a lot of audible crackle which is polished off by the stylus during the first play. That can't be doing my stylus any good, and it's annoying to have sit through a noisy record even once. If the combination of the two methods leaves me with a perfectly clean record, I will be very pleased indeed.

Twanx
04-09-2013, 10:11 AM
Anyone compared:

1.Spin Clean by itself
2.Record Doctor by itself
3.Spin Clean + Record Doctor together

Would be interested to know how capable the Record Doctor is by itself.

Mine shipped this morning!

Sandbar92
04-09-2013, 10:58 AM
beatcomber, I will not be surprised if you retire the Spin Clean. Try the Record Doctor alone - not in conjunction with the Spin Clean - and see what result you get.

griffithds
04-09-2013, 10:59 AM
Great buy!

I currently own a VPI 16.5. It doesn't clean any better the previous RCM which is the original of what you just bought. Only difference is the method of rotation. Enjoy!

Twanx
04-09-2013, 11:15 AM
Great buy!

I currently own a VPI 16.5. It doesn't clean any better the previous RCM which is the original of what you just bought. Only difference is the method of rotation. Enjoy!

This is good to hear!

Sandbar92
04-09-2013, 11:39 AM
Several years back I found a review of several RCM's somewhere on the net. The Record Doctor, according to the tester, cleaned records just as well as all the other RCM's - no one RCM cleaned better than another. It all came down to what features you'd like to have for ease of use. So I spent less on the Doctor and bought a bunch of used vinyl rather than go for the features. No regrets!

beatcomber
04-09-2013, 12:08 PM
beatcomber, I will not be surprised if you retire the Spin Clean. Try the Record Doctor alone - not in conjunction with the Spin Clean - and see what result you get.

Very cool... I will definitely do that.

I do like the Spin-Clean fluid though, especially since it is safe for 78s.

EWizard
04-09-2013, 12:32 PM
Good to know, good to know...

majick47
04-09-2013, 02:16 PM
If you already have a Spin Clean no harm in useing it prior to the Record Doctor but unless your purchasing really dirty records I don't see much use for both and the Record Doctor should be all you need. You should also consider cleaning/rinsing fluids and IMO one of the best is by AIVS, they are exspensive but the results are as good as it gets with my records sounding as quiet as a CD.

Sandbar92
04-09-2013, 03:14 PM
Someone with more knowledge hopefully will chime in on the following: Record Doctor is essentially a Nitty Gritty. I "heard" from a poster on this site or another that some cleaning solutions could harm the NG. True? Untrue? I've been very content with the NG Pure 2 solution > no need to rinse, etc.

JonL
04-09-2013, 04:59 PM
No idea why yours isn't picking up all the fluid. Mine has LOTS of suction.



Mine has plenty of suction, too. Too much, perhaps. I think what happens is that the record is sucked down so tight to the slot that very little air passes between the velvet "lips" and the record, so the fluid isn't as effectively swept into machine with the incoming air as it might be. This is with new velvet as well as old.

Twanx
04-09-2013, 05:30 PM
True, the FirstRV fluid will harm the ng.

Why is this?

Should it be assumed that the FirstRV fluid would also harm the Record Doctor?

illini
04-09-2013, 05:38 PM
Why is this?

Should it be assumed that the FirstRV fluid would also harm the Record Doctor?

My mistake. Per the bottle's instructions it's not to be used in a pump system, which is not on the rcm we're talking about.

Twanx
04-09-2013, 11:40 PM
Just checked my order status...will arrive tomorrow! One day shipping, wow. (I used the free shipping)

Tomorrow will be a good day, my new Denon 301 mk 2 is coming too :banana:

beatcomber
04-10-2013, 06:26 AM
Just checked my order status...will arrive tomorrow! One day shipping, wow. (I used the free shipping)

No kidding! I'll have to check my FedEx tracking... I believe AA is in the midwest, so that makes sense..

Sandbar92
04-10-2013, 10:06 AM
I certainly hope you guys get the satisfaction and results from yours that I've gotten from mine! Let us know how it goes for you.

beatcomber
04-10-2013, 10:10 AM
Due for delivery tomorrow! :banana:

rolltide
04-10-2013, 10:13 AM
Sort of jealous of you guys about to get Record Doctors. I went with the KAB EV-1 which still hasn't arrived after nearly a month, and I'll still have to fiddle with an external vacuum.

beatcomber
04-10-2013, 10:53 AM
Sort of jealous of you guys about to get Record Doctors. I went with the KAB EV-1 which still hasn't arrived after nearly a month, and I'll still have to fiddle with an external vacuum.

So cancel the order!

Condorsat
04-10-2013, 11:06 AM
Owned the old one ... picked it up in 2002 or 03. Never gave me any problems. It was still working last year when I retired it & replaced it with a new Nitty Gritty 1.0 last Christmas. It was nosier than the new Nitty Gritty but it served me well ... I used it frequently. I clean one record at a time ... clean then spin.

Old Audio Advisor RCM

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41qbb1TUW4L._SX300_.jpg

My new Nitty Gritty
http://www.nittygrittyinc.com/images/M1.0.JPG

beatcomber
04-10-2013, 11:32 AM
Here's a question... will the Record Doctor work with 45s that have the large spindle hole?

Twanx
04-10-2013, 11:39 AM
Here's a question... will the Record Doctor work with 45s that have the large spindle hole?

Good question...didn't consider that.

Mine is out for delivery this morning, hopefully it arrives in time for me to play with it today

beatcomber
04-10-2013, 11:44 AM
If not, there is one reason for me to keep the Spin-Clean around...

Twanx
04-10-2013, 11:52 AM
On second thought, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use a 45 adapter with the Record Doctor. I know VPI's etc have different size vacuum tubes for 45's but I never thought it was necessary. We'll see

beatcomber
04-10-2013, 11:57 AM
On second thought, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use a 45 adapter with the Record Doctor. I know VPI's etc have different size vacuum tubes for 45's but I never thought it was necessary. We'll see

Most adapters are thicker than the record, so the turn wheel won't work unless there is an indent.

Twanx
04-10-2013, 12:24 PM
I'm cleaning and waiting for the truck right now, I keep hearing FedEx truck noises and I run to the door and.. nothing :tears:

Sandbar92
04-10-2013, 01:18 PM
I was going to say no regarding cleaning 45's on the Record Doctor, but I decided to see what would happen trying it on mine. It in no way will work with a 45 adaptor, but it does work using one of those little yellow 45 inserts > I tried turning it with the hand turner, and it worked fine. The grooves on a 45 just make it to the edge of the vacuum slot, but it seems it would be a problem with a 45 that is a longer track than most singles > a 45 such as Silver Spring may not quite make it. However, can the same cleaning solutions be used on 45's as on LP's? Are 45's made of the same material? In the back of my ancient mind it seems they or some of them are made from a different plastic!?

beatcomber
04-10-2013, 01:25 PM
It in no way will work with a 45 adaptor, but it does work using one of those little yellow 45 inserts > I tried turning it with the hand turner, and it worked fine.

That's what I figured - thanks for confirming!

illini
04-10-2013, 01:29 PM
On second thought, I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use a 45 adapter with the Record Doctor. I know VPI's etc have different size vacuum tubes for 45's but I never thought it was necessary. We'll see

It will work great on 7"/45s, you'll see.

Twanx
04-10-2013, 02:07 PM
I had to leave and run an errand, and I'm street away. What do I see? The FedEx truck! I chased him down and got my packages in the street! lol.

I will unbox in an hour! :banana:

ra7c7er
04-10-2013, 02:47 PM
I had to leave and run an errand, and I'm street away. What do I see? The FedEx truck! I chased him down and got my packages in the street! lol.

I will unbox in an hour! :banana:

awesome

Coastsider
04-10-2013, 03:56 PM
I just ordered one of the new Record Doctors and was wondering which of the extras and spare parts for the Nitty Gritty available from KAB will work with it. Do any of the vinyl dust covers that are available fit and will the basic vac sweep kit with the replacement velvet strips work on the Record Doctor as well. Also what is the Gliding Platter and is it just for the Nitty Gritty?

Twanx
04-10-2013, 04:02 PM
The machine works great. My new Denon 301 mk2 is blowing my mind though. We'll chat later ya'll :yes:

Twanx
04-10-2013, 05:36 PM
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=423146&stc=1&d=1365632842

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=423147&stc=1&d=1365632842

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=423148&stc=1&d=1365632842

I've cleaned up a few records so far--nothing extremely dirty-- but it does a fantastic job, and very quickly. Even as a first time user I could probably clean an LP a minute. Turning the record is easy enough, but I can see how it would be bothersome to others. I think the "gliding platter" from KAB is in my future

To start out I was cleaning a side at a time and playing, and I couldn't hear any crud at all.

However, as JonL said earlier upthread, the velvet pads can easily dirty up sides when the vacuum is off--minor annoyance IMO and these contaminants will wipe right off before play with a CF brush. I might set up something aside the RCM for fluid application.

Great product at a very low price IMO. No complaints so far.

Dr Tinear
04-10-2013, 05:47 PM
It will work great on 7"/45s, you'll see.

It also works great on 10" and 12" 78s, if you have any of those. Just be sure to use the Nitty Gritty Pure 1 fluid, which is formulated to clean shellac surfaces safely, and avoid using LP cleaning fluids such as Pure 2.

beatcomber
04-10-2013, 05:51 PM
It also works great on 10" and 12" 78s, if you have any of those. Just be sure to use the Nitty Gritty Pure 1 fluid, which is formulated to clean shellac surfaces safely, and avoid using LP cleaning fluids such as Pure 2.

According to Audio Advisor's web site, the Record Doctor fluid contains no alcohol, so it should be OK with shellac.

illini
04-10-2013, 05:51 PM
Sort of jealous of you guys about to get Record Doctors. I went with the KAB EV-1 which still hasn't arrived after nearly a month, and I'll still have to fiddle with an external vacuum.

The KAB EV-1 has the advantage of no internal motor; the unit will never get too hot.

beatcomber
04-11-2013, 08:18 AM
My Record Doctor arrived this morning! I briefly tried it out and all seems OK at first glance. I'm impressed that the upper part of the turn-wheel is solid wood, not plastic.

Yes, it makes a helluva racket, but that's because it SUCKS. :) I can't imagine why anyone would need to drain the tank, it probably evaporates during suction.

I'll put it through its paces tonight and report back...

Sandbar92
04-11-2013, 10:22 AM
In 6 or so years nothing has ever come out of my tank when I've drained it, so yes it must evaporate. Another thing for you guys to take into consideration is the following which I learned from Gail at Nitty Gritty: when the upper or lower part rough rubber surface of the turning wheel begins to slip from getting dirty from record labels on used vinyl, run a stream of water at the sink and gently rub the surface with your finger tips - you will see dirty water coming from your action. Pat dry the rubber surfaces with a towel - rubbing them hard will hasten the surfaces wearing out. You will then feel that the rubber has a "sticky" feel to it when you run your fingertips over them. The turning wheel will again have a good grip on the record.

EWizard
04-11-2013, 10:32 AM
So, anyone of the new Dr. owners care to report on the large hole 45 issue?
I have lots of very dirty 45s.

DougMac
04-11-2013, 10:36 AM
[IMG]Great product at a very low price IMO. No complaints so far.
Congrats. I think you'll find it will make a significant difference.

I just bought a mixture of 45s LPs and 78s at an auction last weekend. It was ~400 records. I have some cleaning in my future!

beatcomber
04-11-2013, 10:37 AM
So, anyone of the new Dr. owners care to report on the large hole 45 issue?
I have lots of very dirty 45s.

You'll definitely have to use a press-fit 45 adapter.

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/gimages/twenty45.jpg

illini
04-11-2013, 10:52 AM
You'll definitely have to use a press-fit 45 adapter.]

I don't use one. I eyeball the alignment and the friction of the platter and knob keeps the record in place.

beatcomber
04-11-2013, 11:05 AM
I don't use one. I eyeball the alignment and the friction of the platter and knob keeps the record in place.

Good to know... I was wondering if that would work.

beatcomber
04-12-2013, 06:33 AM
Well, having cleaned a few records last night with the Record Doctor, I'm happy to report that it works as advertised! LPs come off the vacuum with a nice glossy surface and play with none of the "first-play crackle" that seems to be a part of the Spin-Clean experience.

I'm still fine-tuning my user technique, but turning the disc slowwwly over the vacuum definitely brings the best results. I have no significant issues with how easily discs spin, and I have no need to buy the upgraded KAB platter.

I have yet to try it with REALLY dirty records, which is one area in which the Spin-Clean excels. If it can match the Spin-Clean's performance on thrift store records - and if I can get it to work with 45s (which I believe it will, but haven't yet tried) - then my Spin-Clean will likely end up in Barter Town.

In short, assuming that it's built to last, I declare the Record Doctor a very worthwhile purchase.

gary7
04-12-2013, 07:23 AM
I have the RD II I picked up off the bay last year. Still sucking strong. At $199, this is a steal and a great for us record junkies. Will there be a big rush buying these like with the Spin Clean a year or so ago?

beatcomber
04-12-2013, 07:41 AM
Will there be a big rush buying these like with the Spin Clean a year or so ago?

As long as there are no reports of any problems with this latest model, I imagine it will be a huge success. I've long desired a vacuum RCM, but had a hard time spending $500+ for one. For not much more $$ than a Spin-Clean package, the Record Doctor is a no brainer purchase for budget-minded record collectors.

I love the fact that I can pull a record off the shelf - one that has not yet been cleaned - and within a minute have it ready to play. With the Spin-Clean, you have to give it at least 5-10 minutes to dry (if not longer) and then there is the clean-up of the unit itself afterwards. It's not well-suited for cleaning a single disc in one session, it's designed for doing batches of discs.

Pio1980
04-12-2013, 08:09 AM
I'm still resisting pulling the trigger on this as I have had a better concept for a vacuum system to follow a Spin-Clean that will dry both sides simultaneously.
The problem I see with many of these is that there can be too much suction with insufficient air/fluid flow by pulling the disc firm onto the pad and cutting flow by compressing the fibers, which is easily addressed with a calculated-flow bypass from pump in-to-out to control suction.
The proposed cleaner would consist of two removable parallel short vertical slotted tubes, plugged down into a separation plenum chamber, with their upper ends blocked and the facing slots lined with painting pad stock sufficient to guard the record surface and allow moisture to be wicked off and sucked away. The tubes would have a half-round groove in the top for a short temporary 1/4" guide shaft for the spindle hole to 'locate'' the record into the dryer tubes. A vacuum would be provided to the plenum separation chamber by either internal or external means. Operation should be self-apparent.

ra7c7er
04-12-2013, 08:14 AM
You'll definitely have to use a press-fit 45 adapter.

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/gimages/twenty45.jpg

That makes me want to collect them all.

beatcomber
04-12-2013, 08:21 AM
That makes me want to collect them all.

LOL. That image would make a nice tiled desktop pattern.

tube-a-lou
04-12-2013, 09:01 AM
Once you start cleaning there's no going back, I paid $150.00 for my VPI and it's
one of the best investments I made even one at that price will do a great job
cleaning.

Tube

majick47
04-12-2013, 12:51 PM
The Record DoctorII should silence the claim that a RCM is out of the financial reach of the average person and I predict the Spin Clean will loose a large amount of sales as time goes by. As for performance/results the RCM has demonstarted it's superiority over other devices/methods when it comes to cleaning records. Nitty Gritty has been mfg this basic RCM for 30 years and I'm sure all the bugs are out by now and it's doubtful there will be any problems with the RDII. Hopefuly the new RCM owners will follow suit and start useing good/effective commercial cleaning/rinsing fluids that are just as important as the RCM.

Pio1980
04-12-2013, 01:08 PM
FWIW, no foaming cleaning agent should be used with a vacuum record cleaner, ever.

Pio1980
04-12-2013, 01:10 PM
The Record DoctorII should silence the claim that a RCM is out of the financial reach of the average person and I predict the Spin Clean will loose a large amount of sales as time goes by. As for performance/results the RCM has demonstarted it's superiority over other devices/methods when it comes to cleaning records. Nitty Gritty has been mfg this basic RCM for 30 years and I'm sure all the bugs are out by now and it's doubtful there will be any problems with the RDII. Hopefuly the new RCM owners will follow suit and start useing good/effective commercial cleaning/rinsing fluids that are just as important as the RCM.

Why not use the S-C as a pre-cleaner with a follow-up vacuum pick-up device like this?

Twanx
04-12-2013, 02:39 PM
Why not use the S-C as a pre-cleaner with a follow-up vacuum pick-up device like this?

Some people do. I was wondering, back a few pages, how the spin-clean pre-clean then RCM compares to just using the RCM by itself.

I don't have a spin-clean to test or I would.

beatcomber
04-12-2013, 02:46 PM
Why not use the S-C as a pre-cleaner with a follow-up vacuum pick-up device like this?

I don't like the fact that the Spin-Clean fluid gets progressively dirtier after every record. After 5-10 cleanings, it starts looking pretty funky.

So far the Record Doctor has been at least equally as effective as the SC, and without using recycled cleaning fluid.

Sandbar92
04-12-2013, 02:55 PM
It's really great to read that you guys are being so positive and upbeat about the Doctor. Glad that you are finding it so worthwhile. Enjoy!

beatcomber
04-12-2013, 03:01 PM
Thanks! :)

majick47
04-12-2013, 03:56 PM
It's one thing if you already own a Spin Clean and would have a need to preclean records with layers of heavy dirt but this shouldn't be the norm for most users. The RDII is a great opportunity for many to get into the benefits of a RCM who are on a limited budget. To also purchase a Spin Clean now adds additional and unwarranted exspence to those who can't afford both. The money spent on a Spin Clean would be much better spent on quality commercial cleaning/rinsing fluids. If anyone should choose they could read the informative posts by Mr Pig re the relationship between a RCM and the cleaning/rinsing fluids, bottom line they work hand in hand. I could think of a number of more economical ways of precleaing an occasional heavly soiled record like with the sprayer/water from your kitchen sink.

beatcomber
04-12-2013, 04:25 PM
I could think of a number of more economical ways of precleaing an occasional heavly soiled record like with the sprayer/water from your kitchen sink.

That's exactly what I do, I run filthy records under the tap to remove the surface crud before doing the "real" cleaning.

majick47
04-12-2013, 06:56 PM
I believe beatcombers response has answered the question re will I need both the Spin Clean and the Record Doctor. You don't need both and if you already have a Spin Clean you could further lower the cost of the Record Doctor by selling the Spin Clean to a cash strapped AK member on Barter Town that's presently washing records in the sink etc. My first RCM was a preowned Record Doctor, the results I got with it were as good as my later high priced Nitty Gritty and VPI RCMs that had automated features. As said many times before by a number of AK members re a RCM, this will be one of the biggest audible upgrades you will ever make to your system and at $200 it could well be one of the cheapest.

ra7c7er
04-12-2013, 06:57 PM
Very cool. I actually have my finger hovering over the checkout button.

I never thought I would be able to afford an RCM in any form. I considered building one but I don't have the patience.

I felt the same way. Now with the price of this one I'm thinking about cutting down my RSD budget and getting the RCM.

illini
04-12-2013, 07:02 PM
cutting down my RSD budget and getting the RCM.

Do it, it's worth it! Also implement polylined innersleeves into your collection.

Besides, the real RSD is on the auction site. :para:

JonL
04-12-2013, 07:49 PM
.
The problem I see with many of these is that there can be too much suction with insufficient air/fluid flow by pulling the disc firm onto the pad and cutting flow by compressing the fibers, which is easily addressed with a calculated-flow bypass from pump in-to-out to control suction.


Wholeheartedly agree. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

beatcomber
04-13-2013, 07:30 AM
I believe beatcombers response has answered the question re will I need both the Spin Clean and the Record Doctor. You don't need both and if you already have a Spin Clean you could further lower the cost of the Record Doctor by selling the Spin Clean to a cash strapped AK member on Barter Town that's presently washing records in the sink etc.

That's exactly what I'm going to do this morning... Be sure to check BT if you want a discounted Spin-Clean.

After cleaning a bunch of records last night with it and getting superb results, I'm now convinced that the Record Doctor V is a comprehensive solution.
:tresbon:

Pio1980
04-13-2013, 07:46 AM
Originally Posted by Pio1980;
The problem I see with many of these is that there can be too much suction with insufficient air/fluid flow by pulling the disc firm onto the pad and cutting flow by compressing the fibers, which is easily addressed with a calculated-flow bypass from pump in-to-out to control suction.

Wholeheartedly agree. I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

I'm visualizing something about the size and weight of a blender base that vacuum drys both sides of a vertically oriented record hand-rotated thru parallel slotted and padded vertical pick-up posts with replaceable guard/preening pads. Why this doesn't already exist I do not know, perfect follow-up finishing step to a Spin-Clean, Knosti, or sink cleaning.

Pio1980
04-13-2013, 09:04 AM
Well, the inexorable gravitational pull of necessity (I'm slowly getting the bulk of my record collection out of unintended rough storage) has sucked me into it's irresistible vortex and I've committed at last to this residue scum-sucker record cleaning machine to follow-up my Spin Clean routine. It has the necessary feature of compactness which ruled out the bulky VPI at any price. If I come up with something better it'll go to B-T.

majick47
04-13-2013, 12:00 PM
I'v seen excellent examples of DIY RCMs that AK members have designed and built. By the looks of them many would easly equal or better a commercial RCM. No doubt it took a good amount of knowledge, skill, tools/machinery, material, time and some funds to construct these DIY RCMs. The RDII may not be the greatest/best RCM ever but at $200 shipped it's opened the door for a lot of AK members that were locked out financially and also lack the ability to build a RCM. Pretty much a solid investment with minimal depreciation if you should ever decide to sell it.

fowlerclone
04-13-2013, 01:15 PM
Thanks to everyone for their write-ups/ reviews. One of these will be in my future.

Twanx
04-13-2013, 02:33 PM
I'v seen excellent examples of DIY RCMs that AK members have designed and built. By the looks of them many would easly equal or better a commercial RCM. No doubt it took a good amount of knowledge, skill, tools/machinery, material, time and some funds to construct these DIY RCMs. The RDII may not be the greatest/best RCM ever but at $200 shipped it's opened the door for a lot of AK members that were locked out financially and also lack the ability to build a RCM. Pretty much a solid investment with minimal depreciation if you should ever decide to sell it.

Exactly. At $200 there isn't much you can complain about. Sure it has faults..small ones.. that I can live with due to the price.

I am just happy to have a machine that works!!

Could I have built one? ..maybe. in fact I have a gutted TT I prepared to start trying to build one. But I saved myself the hassle and doubt in my own DIY skills.

The Record Doctor is, so far, a cheap and reliable RCM that anyone can afford. I recommend it to anyone, and I have recommended it to my friends

Pio1980
04-13-2013, 10:18 PM
New owners of the heavily discounted close-out Audio Technica OC9MLa MkII at $300 could justify this RCM as a "freebie" if the discounted $500 alternate price at Needle Doctor is taken into account.

Pio1980
04-17-2013, 11:17 PM
Mine arrived this a'noon and I've spent part of the evening redesigning the spindle thrust bearing so it could actually work. I dunno what they were thinking with that 'O'-ring stalling the thrust bearing. I have a couple hundred records waiting on me to go thru the Spin Clean and this thing.

beatcomber
04-18-2013, 12:43 PM
Having cleaned a few dozen LPs with this so far, I'd like to offer some new comments and 'best practices' recommendations.

I don't care much for the supplied brush pad. I can't imagine that it does more than spread the fluid on the surface of the record without scrubbing inside the grooves, and inexplicably it is not wide enough to cover the entire playing side of the record. My solution was to replace it with a Mobile Fidelity brush (just received it today), which is universally praised for its effectiveness. The bristle side of the Record Doctor brush will be useful, however, for cleaning the felt vacuum lips and MoFi brush.

I apply the fluid as instructed in a straight line from edge to label, and then turn the platter fairly slowly. I do not believe that there is any need to apply much downward pressure on the brush. I give the platter three clockwise turns and then three counterclockwise turns. I have added a small dot sticker (like the kind you see used as price stickers at garage sales) to the platter puck to help me mark each full rotation. I tried brushing one side of the record while vacuuming the other side, and found it too hard to turn the platter.

During vacuuming I give the platter three rotations in one direction, turning it very slowly. After turning off the vacuum, I continue turning the platter for a second or two, to prevent a line of fluid from being left on the surface of the LP.

Twanx
04-18-2013, 12:54 PM
Thanks for that! I'm not too fond of the supplied brush either. MoFi brush was already being considered.

I have a little concern, hopefully someone can help me. Yesterday I had a guy from craigslist who was selling LP's come over, one of the records I wanted had dusty old mold on it..

I didn't have time to rinse it off in the sink (he might have objected to that anyhow) so I just threw it on the RCM. Most all of it came off.. but is there a chance it could grow inside the machine? I'm worried about this

beatcomber
04-18-2013, 01:01 PM
Most all of it came off.. but is there a chance it could grow inside the machine? I'm worried about this

I doubt it. Mold grows where there is moisture. I would imagine that the inside of the vacuum is pretty dry.

illini
04-18-2013, 05:00 PM
Thanks for that! I'm not too fond of the supplied brush either. MoFi brush was already being considered.

I have a little concern, hopefully someone can help me. Yesterday I had a guy from craigslist who was selling LP's come over, one of the records I wanted had dusty old mold on it..

I didn't have time to rinse it off in the sink (he might have objected to that anyhow) so I just threw it on the RCM. Most all of it came off.. but is there a chance it could grow inside the machine? I'm worried about this

I use a separate brush for records with mold. Preclean it with said brush and wipe off the residue with a lint free wipe. Then the lp goes on the rcm. I put the moldy (inactive) lp jacket/sleeve into a 12" zip lock bag and the lp is kept in a replacement sleeve and kacket. The brush is cleaned with ipa.

Mold can be deadly.

No mold issues with my rcm since doing the above 2 years ago.

Pio1980
04-18-2013, 05:04 PM
I use the Spin Clean esp for mildewed records, I use a hair dryer on hot for the paper sleeves and jackets. New sleeves are usually advisable but not absolutely necessary after the heat sterilization blow-out. YMMV

illini
04-18-2013, 05:35 PM
Mine arrived this a'noon and I've spent part of the evening redesigning the spindle thrust bearing so it could actually work.

If I understand you correctly, there's kab mod for that. They give you a flat bearing, a large washer, and a thinner platter. Platter is stacked on top of the bearing, washer placed on spindle to keep bearing centered. This mod is actually for the nitty gritty manual rcms, but I'm sure it'll work for yours.

Pio1980
04-18-2013, 06:04 PM
If I understand you correctly, there's kab mod for that. They give you a flat bearing, a large washer, and a thinner platter. Platter is stacked on top of the bearing, washer placed on spindle to keep bearing centered. This mod is actually for the nitty gritty manual rcms, but I'm sure it'll work for yours.

That's right, I ordered it when I ordered The RecDoc. It'll be here soon and I can compare it to my mod.

illini
04-18-2013, 06:38 PM
I wonder if a Teflon disc mod could be implemented ...:scratch2:

Pio1980
04-18-2013, 07:05 PM
I wonder if a Teflon disc mod could be implemented ...:scratch2:

Sure could. I also changed the spacing to allow the record to ride just at the pads instead of hard on them as some bit of airflow thru them is better IMO. I have yet to try it as my housemate has been ill and the noise would be unwelcome.

Pio1980
04-19-2013, 10:14 PM
Got to cleaning some mildew-foxed records this a'noon with the Spin-Clean, then onto the RecDoc for a suck-off and dry. They came out looking and sounding like new with no ticks or pops. The puck is unnecessary for this simple operation and actually counterproductive as being able to tilt the record during the drying one way and the other to open the leading edge side a bit facilitates the process. For that reason as well as safety prudence, putting some sticky felt bumper pads at the upper corners and the centers of the long edge of the top of the cleaner is strongly recommended. I previously stated a mod to free the roller bearing and adjust higth to where the record surface is just a bit above the pads, allowing suction to pull the record to the pad, seems to work very well for me. Pretty much everyone else uses it straight out of the box with good results, I'm one of those guys that looks at stuff like this critically for optimal function as I do with turntables and systems.
In conclusion I don't see why anyone already having a Spin Clean wouldn't use this in conjunction with the S-C for all records and especially those with unknown history or mildewed records, I can't imagine anything at any price that can do any better than this combo.

majick47
04-19-2013, 10:44 PM
Many members may not have a Spin Clean and can't afford to purchase both, could you try the Record Doctor alone with the provided cleaning fluid and let us know how that works.

Pio1980
04-19-2013, 11:30 PM
Many members may not have a Spin Clean and can't afford to purchase both, could you try the Record Doctor alone with the provided cleaning fluid and let us know how that works.

I expect it could do about as well but take longer, esp for production-line cleaning of a batch. Get a supplemental cleaning brush as has been suggested, a quality paint brush with fine-tipped bristles should work OK if you'd rather not order a 'special' record cleaning brush. The SC does both sides simultaneously in a few seconds of spinning and rocking the disc both ways in the bath. You do need the puck to use the RecDoc as a record cleaning stand, which is done with the vacuum off.

Twanx
04-19-2013, 11:32 PM
Yes, Pio, please do. I am really curious about this and have been for pages.

Also, I'm not sure I understand your "mods", can you explain what they are (or pictures) and tell what your results are.

Pio1980
04-20-2013, 11:28 PM
Got to cleaning some mildew-foxed records this a'noon with the Spin-Clean, then onto the RecDoc for a suck-off and dry. They came out looking and sounding like new with no ticks or pops. The puck is unnecessary for this simple operation and actually counterproductive as being able to tilt the record during the drying one way and the other to open the leading edge side a bit facilitates the process. For that reason as well as safety prudence, putting some sticky felt bumper pads at the upper corners and the centers of the long edge of the top of the cleaner is strongly recommended. I previously stated a mod to free the roller bearing and adjust higth to where the record surface is just a bit above the pads, allowing suction to pull the record to the pad, seems to work very well for me. Pretty much everyone else uses it straight out of the box with good results, I'm one of those guys that looks at stuff like this critically for optimal function as I do with turntables and systems.
In conclusion I don't see why anyone already having a Spin Clean wouldn't use this in conjunction with the S-C for all records and especially those with unknown history or mildewed records, I can't imagine anything at any price that can do any better than this combo.



Yes, Pio, please do. I am really curious about this and have been for pages.

Also, I'm not sure I understand your "mods", can you explain what they are (or pictures) and tell what your results are.

The roller bearing is shown sitting on the added polished spacer washer, it is ca 1/12" thick. The bearing normally rides directly on the black plastic baseplate, this lifts the record just slightly off the vacuum slot pad with the vacuum off. The vacuum has more than sufficient power to pull the record firmly to the pad. The blue circular plastic ring inside the roller bearing replaces the tight-fitting stock black 'O' ring, allowing the record plate to turn freely at a touch. A loose-fitted ring of copper wire would probably do just as well. The record is slowly turned a couple rounds under suction by it's rim with both hands without the turning puck while slightly tilting so that the leading side is up slightly to facilitate drying. Reverse and go the other way for a couple turns, then around flat down a couple turns one way and the other. Tilt the record toward the side to break vacuum and lift slowly away. Done right there should no damp patches or pad lip marks left on the record, just shiny pristine vinyl.

The pic of the top of the unit shows the position of the added stick-on felt record guards, highly recommended for record safety.

Pio1980
04-21-2013, 07:23 AM
I've wanted something like this since the 1970s when I heard of the VPI cleaner and how it markedly reduced the background noise floor, increasing apparent signal-to-noise dynamics and enjoyment. The RecDoc certainly does that, no hype. Is a device I'm mainly using only as a plug-and-play residue-suck-off-and-dry device post-Spin Cleaning worth $200 in results? Yes indeedy IMO, and I am a usually a cheapskate. Used as a sole record cleaning stand device without the SC on ordinarily encountered records it should work great tho' I would use a toothbrush wetted with distilled water to freshen up the pad, with the vacuum on, between cleanings of really dirty records, occasionally with regular records. Using the RecDoc on all records once regardless of how clean should give lower noise and be well worth the trouble.
FWIW, it is a very basic and very well-made device just heavy enuff to keep it on the counter without buzzing or moving around and not as noisy-loud as I would have thought, about like a blender.

Pio1980
04-23-2013, 08:30 AM
The KAB bearing is here, much larger than the stock bearing and puts the disc at the same level as the un-mod'ed stock bearing. Does not allow tilting the disc to clear the suction effect or the pads for droplet and debris suck-off but is very effective otherwise, perfect for those that use it strictly as-instructed.

majick47
04-23-2013, 04:55 PM
I'm getting the feeling Pio has given his seal of approval on the Record Doctor, he isn't known for giving anything audio a free pass so considering price/peformance the Record Doctor passed muster.

Pio1980
04-23-2013, 05:10 PM
I'm getting the feeling Pio has given his seal of approval on the Record Doctor, he isn't known for giving anything audio a free pass so considering price/performance the Record Doctor passed muster.

Here, yes. It works if you do your part.

illini
04-23-2013, 05:16 PM
Are those finger 'holes' on top of the puck? I think gripping the entire puck with your hand would make turning it easier.

Pio1980
04-23-2013, 05:50 PM
Are those finger 'holes' on top of the puck? I think gripping the entire puck with your hand would make turning it easier.

That's how it works for me when I use the puck but cheers for them giving the option.

shardina
04-24-2013, 09:18 PM
Just got mine today, loving it so far! Seems like the included fluid will last a while, too.

Twanx
04-24-2013, 10:39 PM
Are those finger 'holes' on top of the puck? I think gripping the entire puck with your hand would make turning it easier.

It is! Discovered this myself today :thmbsp:

Did some heavy cleaning today, it amazes me to have utterly silent play out of 50 year old discs--very well taken care of or seldom played--but silent nonetheless.

shardina
04-24-2013, 10:57 PM
What's the word on the effectiveness of the included brush vs a MoFi brush?

beatcomber
04-25-2013, 06:34 AM
What's the word on the effectiveness of the included brush vs a MoFi brush?

I bought a MoFi brush immediately after getting my RD, and I feel it is an upgrade.

The RD brush is more like a spongey, smooth pad, and the MoFo brush is more like the old Discwasher brush in that it has microfibers that get into the groove. I seem to be getting quieter results with the MoFi brush.

The RD brush inexplicably does not cover the entire playing surface of an LP, requiring twice as much effort to clean a record. The MoFi brush is wider (and deeper too).

The RD brush comes in handy because one side has thick bristles, which I use to clean both the MoFi brush and the felt pads on the vacuum.

shardina
04-25-2013, 09:30 AM
Thanks! Looks like my MoFi brush is coming off of wet dusting duty and moving up to the RCM workstation!

ra7c7er
05-05-2013, 04:45 PM
Anyone cleaned 10" records with the record Doctor? Does it work well?

beatcomber
05-05-2013, 05:57 PM
Anyone cleaned 10" records with the record Doctor? Does it work well?

Sure, why wouldn't it?

ra7c7er
05-05-2013, 07:21 PM
Sure, why wouldn't it?

Because it doesn't do 7" so I was wondering how it handles 10". I don't see it as an invalid question.

beatcomber
05-05-2013, 07:52 PM
Because it doesn't do 7" so I was wondering how it handles 10". I don't see it as an invalid question.

Sure it does 7"! You just need a flat 45 adapter. 10-inchers already have the right size spindle hole, so they're a cinch.

griffithds
05-08-2013, 05:54 PM
I just ordered one of the new Record Doctors and was wondering which of the extras and spare parts for the Nitty Gritty available from KAB will work with it. Do any of the vinyl dust covers that are available fit and will the basic vac sweep kit with the replacement velvet strips work on the Record Doctor as well. Also what is the Gliding Platter and is it just for the Nitty Gritty?

Those basic vac sweep strips also work perfectly on the VPI 16.5.
A hell of a lot cheaper also!

Regards,
Don

Pio1980
05-08-2013, 06:05 PM
I think the Gliding Platter annular bearing kit is for all the manual NG machines, I like the bearing but the accompanying goodies should have been better. I also don't understand why the record isn't spaced just above the slot so that it rotates free, so the vacuum pulls the record down onto the pad during the suck-off cycle. I added a properly fitted inner spacer washer and a spaced platform to slightly raise the whole rotating assembly off the slot.

ejkorvette
06-13-2013, 02:18 PM
I was ready to pick up a Nitty Gritty 1.0 this weekend, however after reading this thread, I ordered My RD V This afternoon!

Sandbar92
06-13-2013, 04:15 PM
Congratulations! It's been a great vinyl companion in my house for 5 years!

beatcomber
06-13-2013, 04:35 PM
I've had mine for a month or two, and I still totally dig it.

ejkorvette
06-17-2013, 11:59 AM
Chose free ship and STILL received it in 2 days. It came Saturday. First thing I noticed was pretty decent build quality....fantastic considering the price point. It did have a platter bearing included with it as well, and it spins very well...dunno if they decided to start including it or what, but there it was.

Yes the brush/applicator isn't premium, however that is the ONLY thing I can find fault with in this package.

I had 2 terrible records that I immediately put the RD to the test with. All I can say it was AMAZING the difference this cleaner made on them! After years of what I thought was a pretty good cleaning process I am completely blown away by this machine. I was ready...totally ready to drop $400 plus on the base model NG....(as a note I did have a Nitty Gritty many years ago), so glad I didn't. Absolutely the best investment I have made into my setup in a long time. Now to buy some MFSL inner sleeves with the money I saved!

Sandbar92
06-17-2013, 01:29 PM
Chose free ship and STILL received it in 2 days. It came Saturday. First thing I noticed was pretty decent build quality....fantastic considering the price point. It did have a platter bearing included with it as well, and it spins very well...dunno if they decided to start including it or what, but there it was.

Yes the brush/applicator isn't premium, however that is the ONLY thing I can find fault with in this package.

I had 2 terrible records that I immediately put the RD to the test with. All I can say it was AMAZING the difference this cleaner made on them! After years of what I thought was a pretty good cleaning process I am completely blown away by this machine. I was ready...totally ready to drop $400 plus on the base model NG....(as a note I did have a Nitty Gritty many years ago), so glad I didn't. Absolutely the best investment I have made into my setup in a long time. Now to buy some MFSL inner sleeves with the money I saved!
Those of us who own one of these are believers! A friend just got one for Father's Day and is very happy with it. Previously he had used mine so he knew what to expect. Yes, money very well spent and your records and stylus are most grateful!

skandl
10-23-2013, 12:59 PM
Revising an old thread that has convinced me to click the order button today! I look forward to seeing the differences between the Spin Clean and RD. I took beatcomber's advice and bought the MOFI brush. Thanks all for the opinions made about this product.

Sandbar92
10-23-2013, 03:29 PM
Revising an old thread that has convinced me to click the order button today! I look forward to seeing the differences between the Spin Clean and RD. I took beatcomber's advice and bought the MOFI brush. Thanks all for the opinions made about this product.

Congratulations! You can also buy the Nitty Gritty brushes as well.

skandl
10-29-2013, 10:26 PM
Ok got the RD this past weekend but just to busy to really sit down with it. Came home tonight from work and cleaned a couple of Spin Clean cleaned records with known clicks and pops. Some of these were second hand purchases so the scratches were there from the start. I also cleaned a new album Iron Maiden Piece of Mind. Cleaning the new buy proved to do nothing for SQ as this picture disc re-release just sucks in dynamics and noise (at least my copy) cleaned second hand (Piece of Mind) album and playing it at the same volume left my ears ringing for a sec. In all fairness still the pops but this album for those who know Maiden was played and played some more in the 80s. The positives is the older albums dynamics were much better than the new and far better after the RD than before. Popping and clicking was throughout both albums even in the loud passages. After the RD new album no change (bad pressing or my luck of the draw) but reduced to only silent passages with the old copy. I cleaned other albums that normally were 85% quiet this number has greatly increased to 90-95%. The short so far is the machine does work very well over the SC. All of my albums have been SC'd except for the very new one by Maiden.

I can see how some with at SC would incorporate it in the cleaning process it makes sense in thought I have not practiced so cannot report my opinon, but in would seem natural.

I am using the MOFI brush (thx beatcomber) it does cover the groves quickly. Not ever using any other RCM I am pretty happy with this machine and can see it in service for many albums to come.

Gridslayer
11-02-2013, 03:30 PM
Just picked up a used original model for $95 with a bottle of solution! I would say there is a marked improvement over the spin clean. However, applying the solution is annoying because if you put any pressure on the record the clamp slips and it doesn't turn. I am starting to regret selling my spin clean to buy this. It would have been nice to do a two-step process, spin clean first then finish with the RD... Still, I am very happy with this product...

speedle
12-29-2013, 05:47 PM
I got one of these for Christmas from my lovely wife who apparently doesn't like me taking over the dining room for hours at a time with my Spin-Clean, lol. Thank goodness for AK and this thread, lots of good advice and comments. I'm going to get a revised platter bearing from KAB for sure, and buy a MoFi brush while I'm at it. I think I'll keep the SC though, for really crappy stuff and the occasional theraputic all night wash session. ;)

Gridslayer
02-02-2014, 01:52 PM
I got one of these for Christmas from my lovely wife who apparently doesn't like me taking over the dining room for hours at a time with my Spin-Clean, lol. Thank goodness for AK and this thread, lots of good advice and comments. I'm going to get a revised platter bearing from KAB for sure, and buy a MoFi brush while I'm at it. I think I'll keep the SC though, for really crappy stuff and the occasional theraputic all night wash session. ;)

Yeah I do a whole session with the Spin clean followed by the RD for final dry/vacuum. Works great!

Twanx
02-02-2014, 06:17 PM
Cool to see this thread again :yes:

My current process is as follows:

1. Use Knitty Gritty wet brush to spread Audio Intelligent one step fluid. I use enough to have a light pool over the entire record.

2. Flip the record and start the vacuum, two times clockwise and two times counterclockwise.

3.(important step!) I use my index finger on my left hand(I keep it on the switch) to LIFT the record from the pad about 2-3 millimeters or so while spinning the record a 3-5 times each way. This gets the record 100% dry every time and takes all the nasties with it!

This one step process can get me SILENT play from 60 year old LP'S.

beatcomber
02-02-2014, 06:44 PM
3.(important step!) I use my index finger on my left hand(I keep it on the switch) to LIFT the record from the pad about 2-3 millimeters or so while spinning the record a 3-5 times each way. This gets the record 100% dry every time and takes all the nasties with it!

Interesting. 100% dry, huh? I often get a line of fluid left on the record near the label after vacuuming, so this comment caught my attention.

How do you think that lifting the record from the pad affects it?

kermit z
02-02-2014, 07:23 PM
Interesting. 100% dry, huh? I often get a line of fluid left on the record near the label after vacuuming, so this comment caught my attention.

How do you think that lifting the record from the pad affects it?

Yeah, count me in on the curious

cdk99
02-02-2014, 07:32 PM
Would it make sense to put a little velvet-topped post or a wheel by the vacuum port to keep the record at the optimal height?

I'm guessing that it works better because there is airflow, which would promote evaporation and movement of stuff into the vac. Sometimes when a vac hose is totally blocked it seems like the motor relaxes a bit, which makes me think it isn't pulling stuff. Not talking about a RD specifically, don't have one... yet.

Twanx
02-02-2014, 09:31 PM
I' m guessing that it works better because there is airflow, which would promote evaporation and movement of stuff into the vac.

This seems like a perfect explanation. After I clean I have ZERO moisture remaining. If I have any remnants it's small specks of dust near the label

beatcomber
02-02-2014, 09:35 PM
Cool! I'll try your method and see how it works out for me.

LesE
02-02-2014, 10:14 PM
I've often wondered if this is the reason why KAB warns against using a vacuum that is too strong with the EV-1. If the vacuum is too powerful, it will pull the record down against strips too tightly thus reducing airflow.

Pio1980
02-03-2014, 09:40 AM
I've often wondered if this is the reason why KAB warns against using a vacuum that is too strong with the EV-1. If the vacuum is too powerful, it will pull the record down against strips too tightly thus reducing airflow.

That's pretty much it, I think a variable relief valve on the vacuum side of the RecDoc could help with the wet line residue. As it is I use a spacer disc under the record and rock it off the pads under vacuum.

ODYOFAEL
02-03-2014, 12:07 PM
My RCM dries a wet record in 2 revolutions...at 5 rpm. Maybe your vac is not strong enough or you are manually spinning it too fast. When you lift the record from the felt, it will lose suction. Just my observation. Mine is a VPI style RCM.

jkilla
05-27-2014, 09:18 AM
Any idea what's going on with these? I see the shipping date has been delayed from june 20th now to July 1!

senseabove
08-01-2014, 11:56 PM
Just got one of these in the mail yesterday and I'm hoping somebody can convince me I didn't just waste a few hundred dollars. Maybe reading everyone else's evaluations set my standards too high, or maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I'm using Audio Intelligent #15 and #6 with MoFi brushes, and getting little to no improvement. I started off with a few really dirty records that I've been anxious to play, but were just too noisy to listen to. I cleaned an original DG Verve pressing of a Jimmy Giuffre album that was unbearably noisy by pouring a line of #15, giving two rotations to spread it around with the MoFi brush, letting it sit for four minutes, then vacuuming it off. Repeat on the other side, then I did the same routine with #6.

No improvement. Well, this is a reaaaaallly dirty record, I think, so I put another round of #15 on each side, letting it sit for almost 10 minutes this time, then continue with the same #6 routine of 4 minutes per side.

This time, there's an improvement, not dramatic or even significant, really, just an improvement. But the worst of the noise on Side 1—which has no visible cause, e.g. no scratches, scuffs, or marks—is still there.

Well, maybe this record is just shot from a decade on an old heavy-armed player in its early years.

So I try a few other records, of varying vintage and varying noise-levels, trying various soak times per side with the #15 and #6, trying just #6 on records I know are already cleaner, etc.

The records that may have gotten slightly better are balanced by the records that may have gotten slightly worse. No dramatic improvements on any of them, no "this machine saved a record I thought was lost" that I read so many times.

This afternoon, I come home and think, dammit, I am going to get a record clean. So I pull out a record that I remember being not bad and give it a close listen. I'm going to focus on just one side. Side 2: A little noise, one or two pops, listenable, but could be cleaner.

First, I try just #6. A thick line from the inner grooves to the outer edge. Brush it all the way around, "agitate" it for another two rounds in one direction, then one in the other direction, then let it sit for three minutes. Flip, vacuum, then let it sit on the platter for ~10 minutes to make sure it's dry. Play: just the same, same noise, same pops.

Now I try #15, same routine as above. Then #6 again, this time with some extended "agitation," a little more back and forth action and a few extra rounds with the brush, rather than just one or two rounds. Flip, vacuum... Same noise.

So I try the solution that came with the vacuum, Record Doctor RxLP, just to see. Still nothing.

So, anyone have any tips? Should I be brushing more, or harder? Letting it sit for a while longer, even though the fluid's close to drying? Using more fluid? Any help would be much appreciated!

beatcomber
08-02-2014, 01:14 AM
Try using the Record Doctor solution. I'm not familiar with Audio Intelligent #15 and #6.

Condorsat
08-02-2014, 08:27 AM
Depends on what the source of the "surface noise is". If it's micro debris that can be removed with cleaning ... reduced or diminished surface noise is entirely possible. Damaged or worn grooves? .... not going to happen in my experience of cleaning many thousands of records.

I toss records with bad surface noise in the dumpster all the time. Why burden other record collectors with the same poor condition vinyl IMHO. If the record is extremly rare ... I'll hold onto it ... needle drop and correct w/ software.

beatcomber
08-02-2014, 09:35 AM
It's worth reinforcing that some records will never be quiet no matter what you do... even if they are visually perfect. Some have suffered groove damage from compromised styli, others may just be pressed on lousy quality vinyl.

majick47
08-02-2014, 10:01 AM
senseabove no one can fault you for not trying multiple times with multiple records but if they are all a foot from with damage there is no cleaning method/machine that's going to make them play like new again. I wont buy a record that isn't at least VG condition with light surface scratches/scuffs that a good cartridge/stylus will get below these minor imperfections. I'v had a couple records slip past me that had groove damage but it's rare. Records in VG condition or better using a RCM like the Record Doctor, I once had the original Nitty Gritty mfg model, will clean up removing the surface dirt and will play as quiet as a church mouse.

gary7
08-02-2014, 01:43 PM
Unfortunately, the Record Doctor or any cleaning system made won't re-press a record.

Sandbar92
08-02-2014, 02:57 PM
I bought an RD new about 7 years ago and have cleaned 800 or so used records. The vast majority have improved dramatically with the RD. I've some lp's that look like crap and which play flawlessly; others look as mint as mint can be and play like crap - damage to the grooves which can't be seen. I suggest you take some of the lp's you've cleaned to no avail and wash them in the kitchen sink using a soft bristle paint brush and a solution of Dawn dish detergent and rinse with distilled water - let them air dry so you don't add any static from a cloth. When dry, play them to see if that procedure did any good.

gary7
08-02-2014, 03:12 PM
Ditto. I've played some that sounded like Rice Krispies, ran them thru The RD. Came out near noiseless, and some no help at all. It all depends on the condition of the lp. And funny when the Spin Clean was the rage, I had lp's that sounded worse (more pops & ticks after I ran them thru the SC) and many though I was nuts.

senseabove
08-02-2014, 04:42 PM
I think that's what's driving me up the wall. All of my records have been through a Spinclean with plain ol' store-brand distilled water and the stock Spinclean solution, and for about 80% of them, there was a pretty dramatic improvement afterwards. Equipment totaling about three times the price, that this gullible guy believed would be better than a dunk through water with some probably-by-now dirty brushes, is having, at best, a tenth of the improvement, and even then only on 1 out of every 10 records.

I'm aware, that it's not going to "repress a record," take out groovewear or other permanent damage, etc. But if you folks are telling me that a cheap, distilled water bath in a Spinclean got these records as clean as they're ever going to get, and a vacuum machine isn't nearly as good as 95% of the reviews make them out to be... man, the audiophile magic pixiedust is stronger and more liberally sprinkled than I thought possible.

If anyone who's seen dramatic or at least noticeable results with a RD V would mind sharing their techniques, I'd appreciate it. E.g., how much fluid do you use? Do you pour a line from edge to edge that you spread around, or a generous splash all over? How long do you let the solution sit for? 1-3 minutes, as suggested, or a good deal longer? How many spins brushing the solution around, and how many spins on the vacuum? Things like that.

Sandbar92
08-02-2014, 04:53 PM
I think that's what's driving me up the wall. All of my records have been through a Spinclean with plain ol' store-brand distilled water and the stock Spinclean solution, and for about 80% of them, there was a pretty dramatic improvement afterwards. Equipment totaling about three times the price, that this gullible guy believed would be better than a dunk through water with some probably-by-now dirty brushes, is having, at best, a tenth of the improvement, and even then only on 1 out of every 10 records.

I'm aware, that it's not going to "repress a record," take out groovewear or other permanent damage, etc. But if you folks are telling me that a cheap, distilled water bath in a Spinclean got these records as clean as they're ever going to get, and a vacuum machine isn't nearly as good as 95% of the reviews make them out to be... man, the audiophile magic pixiedust is stronger and more liberally sprinkled than I thought possible.

If anyone who's seen dramatic or at least noticeable results with a RD V would mind sharing their techniques, I'd appreciate it. E.g., how much fluid do you use? Do you pour a line from edge to edge that you spread around, or a generous splash all over? How long do you let the solution sit for? 1-3 minutes, as suggested, or a good deal longer? How many spins brushing the solution around, and how many spins on the vacuum? Things like that.

I use Nitty Gritty Pure2 on my RD. I squirt a line of fluid from the label to the edge. I spread and work in the fluid with the supplied velvet brushes - mine are made by NG. I then do 5 to 6 manual spins. Then I flip over to vac for 4 to 5 spins. Repeat for the other side. Each side takes a few moments.

gary7
08-02-2014, 05:01 PM
I haven't used my Spin Clean in about a year. I use home brew (10% alcohol, 90% distilled water, few drops of Dawn). As the record spins I cover the top with the solution spread out with my Nitty Gritty felt brush. Let set for 30 seconds. If particularity dirty I use a Paint pad to scrub sections as I turn the record with the RD turning pad. Then I move to the RD switch on and rotate until dry. Seems to work great except for physical damage to the record.

kirk57
08-02-2014, 06:10 PM
senseabove- are you applying the fluid to the record while it's on the RCM?

I've found it works best to put the record on a towel over a flat surface and then apply fluid, that way you can really apply some pressure with the brush.

beatcomber
08-02-2014, 06:43 PM
senseabove- are you applying the fluid to the record while it's on the RCM?

I've found it works best to put the record on a towel over a flat surface and then apply fluid, that way you can really apply some pressure with the brush.

I never thought of doing it that way...

senseabove
08-02-2014, 09:18 PM
senseabove- are you applying the fluid to the record while it's on the RCM?

I've found it works best to put the record on a towel over a flat surface and then apply fluid, that way you can really apply some pressure with the brush.

Yeah, I've been applying it while the record's on the machine, as per the instructions, by holding the brush on the part of the record over the vacuum mouth. And the Audio Intelligent solution instructions say you should only apply light pressure, otherwise you're pushing dirt/grit/stuff down into the grooves, rather than letting the solution pull it out.

But the instructions ain't done diddly for me yet, so I guess I'll try the towel+elbow grease method.


And thanks, gary and sandbar, for your routines. I've only been doing two or three spins with the vacuum on, usually two in one direction, one in the other. I'll try giving it a few more rounds.

jkilla
08-10-2014, 10:16 PM
Any progress on this senseabove?

I am thinking of grabbing one of these to use with a scrubbing bubbles technique (surprisingly effective cleaning job as documented in the Audio Karma thread). I hope your experience has improved since?

senseabove
08-11-2014, 02:19 AM
TL;DR: If the convenience of being able to clean 1 record at a time is important, and $200 won't break the bank, go for it, but don't waste your money on fancy products like I did; and expect results approximate to a SpinClean ~80% of the time, better than a SpinClean sometimes, and Holy-wow results only once every now and then.

The Long Version:

A bit of progress, with some method change:

1. Lay the record on a towel and lay out a line of the pre-cleaner #15, plus a few splashes around
2. Scrub almost continuously for a few minutes, alternating directions
3. Vacuum almost immediately after scrubbing. Let it sit for at most a minute, usually ~30 seconds, and make 4-5 vacuum rounds total, a few in each direction. I was previously using only two or three, but 4-5 seems to make a difference.
4. Apply the #6 cleaner with the record on the RDV, same scrub and quickly vacuum technique

I've had exactly one record that it's had a revelatory difference on, a few that it's had a noticeable (if you're paying attention) difference on, and a few where it's been convenient to be able to clean one or two, instead of having to wait until I have 10-20 to put through the SpinClean.

The few records I've bought used and cleaned with the RDV seemed to clean up about as well as the SpinClean would have (which is entirely hypothetical, admittedly). So I have to say the convenience factor is... significant. I'm still not seeing—most of the time—significantly better results than the SpinClean was giving, though, but that's knowing that you can't clean the same record twice, as I'm sure Heraclitus would have said.

Other things: I did notice, when cleaning them, that the MoFi brushes shed. Quite a bit, actually. I swapped out a replacement pad to see if maybe just one of them was defective, but haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet. Perhaps I'm leaving velvet debris in the records...

I'm also gonna try to mix up my own cleaning fluid sometime soon to see if the Audio Intelligent fluid is just snake oil, since it doesn't seem to be having much of an effect.

I saw the Scrubbing Bubbles thread and it's made me curious, to be sure, but I'm a bit trepidatious about whether vacuuming it up would be alright for the machine.

jkilla
08-11-2014, 09:48 AM
Thanks for the detailed response. I too, am considering it for the convenience. To fill up the spinclean and go through the whole process, and have to air dry etc. and pretty much having to clean 10-20 records at a time makes it too much of a chore.

Having the RCM do a record and not having to go through an extended air-dry process seems much better, and requires a lot less planning ahead.

With regard to the scrubbing bubbles route, is that it will do a better job than the AIVS solution, as there is probably a more active surfactant ingredient and effect to it. I would probably do the scrubbing bubbles part during the laying on a towel step you mentioned above.

After that, I'd try a brief rinse using distilled water, possibly also on the towel or maybe in a sink. This, I hope should rinse out the scrubbing bubbles, which given its surfactant properties, should rinse out easily? After that, back on the RCM to vacuum off the remnants. Shouldn't cause too much damage to the machine I think?

drtool
08-11-2014, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE

Other things: I did notice, when cleaning them, that the MoFi brushes shed. Quite a bit, actually. I swapped out a replacement pad to see if maybe just one of them was defective, but haven't gotten a chance to try it out yet. Perhaps I'm leaving velvet debris in the records...

.[/QUOTE]

On the MoFi brushes and VPI wands I have, when dry, I use blue, lowest tack painters tape to pull off loose fibers,dirt,etc.