I am delving into the area of veneering. A lot of info in different places. It would be nice if someone developed a veneering sticky much like the refoaming sticky. I know the refoaming sticky helped me out a lot when I started refoaming...

Just a thought...

omi

i think it is a really great idea, i am thinking of getting into it too, and there is so much information it would be nice to get at least some of it in the same place... OMI please give yourself a pat on the back for me for such a great idea

I'm not a woodworking kinda guy, but isn't veneering a sticky business anyway?

Probably not a bad idea. Maybe merrylander or wardsweb can chime in.

I am thinking on it, made a start at some basics, when time permits.

Rob

The only issue I see with this is there is no consensus on which method is best. I know 5 professional woodworkers, and between them, they have 5 different "best methods" to apply veneer. Everyone claims to have had trouble with every option but their own.

Exactly where a 'sticky' should avoid recommending any one method. It really needs to cover all, or as many, of the techniques as possible. Regardless of which glue you use there are certain 'basics' that are unaffected by technique. They used to use hot hide glue, and some older artisans still swear by it but I doubt that anyone thinking of veneering today would go for that.

Rob

Any one remember playing the old Leisure Suit Larry PC games.. That’s me with my first veneering job :) Am trying to make EVERY mistake I can on the first job:)

I can be used as the "This is what YOU do not want to do" part of the sticky:)

Read all I could here on AK…. Ordered some unbacked veneer that came in today… Went to work on the side pieces …

Sanded down the old veneer on the MDF (they have wood veneer on them already) … Sanded the narrow sides and rounded them in the sanding:(

Got a bottle of Tightbond II , small roller and an old iron at the TS store…

Cut the veneer for the side panels

Started with the side panels… Spread the glue on the large face…

Spread the glue on the veneer and it rolled up….

Chipped a piece of glued veneer… Fixed that….

Got the 2 end panel looking fair and then DROPPED THEM!!!

Messed up a corner on each panel… Will have to live with it at this point…

My challenge on Saturday is to see how I can mess up the top part of the case…:)

It is one way to learn…..

Finished my 1st veneer job....
On a 1 to 10 I give myself a strong 4:)
Have a loooong way to go and lot more to learn...
.. Like backed V.S. unbacked veneer?
.. Any special tools that reaaaaaaaly help out??
.. Clear off your work bench so you have room to work... The top of a trash can and the garage floor may not be the best working area:)
.. Any good begininning veneering books out there?
.. Looks like there is a lot to learn on the different finishing methods. I used cherry veneer with a rosewood stain and a number of coats of poly...
.. the corners were a bear...
.. triming the veneer back was a bear...
.. triming the veneer from the center of the top was a bear...
.. any special method / tool to cut the veneer to size?
.. any bits / tools for a Dremil that help the job along?

Next project will be better:)

But as Merrylander says there are certain basics. And they all apply to prep work.
Your choice of adhesive is dictated by type of veneer, backed or raw, whether you are veneering panels or finished boxes, your equipment budget and previous experience with this or that technique.
PPR is the king of glues and if I have the time and/or can only get an exotic species in raw leaf I will use that.
I have no problem with contact adhesive and paper-backed veneer. Thousand of cabinet shops turn out millions of pieces done that way. Could a sunny window cause a bubble? Sure. Could you get hit by a train on the way to repair it?
For smaller projects where a single raw leaf will cover Hot Hide Glue is great. Especially in colder environments. And the FTC has mandated that $12 drip coffee makers keep the liquid at a steady 150 degrees which is the perfect temp for hide glue.
Want to see the most skilled veneerist I know use the PVA and iron method on a $3000 leaf that was laser cut and matched?
Watch Martinelli sweat (http://www.woodhorn.com/curvedveneer.htm)
One absolute is that if you veneer one side of a panel you have to veneer the other. No exceptions. Not true when the workpiece is a finished box.
If you use contact get some 3M blue masking tape and tape the side the bearing of the trimmer will ride on before you spread the glue. It will keep glue off the previously veneered side and cause the cutter to ride away from the edge. prevents scalping and leaves a 1/16th to easily trim.
Theres more good stuff at ART Craftsmen and Asylum High Efficiency and Bottlehead.

Veneering for the uninitiated.

Applying veneers to cases and cabinets is really not as difficult as one might think; much depends upon the veneer and the adhesive.

Veneers:

Veneers come in several styles or types, there is plain wood veneer, usually about 1/42 of an inch thick, there is paper backed veneer, somewhat thinner and bonded to a paper backing, there are veneers with an adhesive already on them that is activated by heat (not you wife’s good iron, get an old one). And there is imitation woodgrain veneer on heavy gauge vinyl.

Wood veneers come in a wide variety of woods, native and exotic. All have their own ‘look’ and all have their own characteristics. Some are easy to work, others will shorten your life. As a broad generalization, the exotics tend to fall into the latter category.

Some woods have mixed hard and soft grain (Cherry) and should not be sanded excessively nor with anything coarser than 320 grit. Some have open grain (Oak) that some people prefer to fill with a suitable wood filler. Beware because even though the can says this product accepts stain the results will not be what you expect.

Adhesives:

Veneering was originally done with hide glues, kept hot on a stove, fortunately we don’t have to deal with that. Present day adhesives fall into two main categories; contact cements and wood glues.

Contact cements come in a variety of types; brush on or spray, water based or solvent based. All have the same basic concept, after coating both surfaces – the veneer and the cabinet and allowing a suitable time the veneer is placed over the cabinet and rolled down. The biggest problem here is being sure that the veneer is exactly placed because once the surfaces touch they will not allow movement. Contact cements have been known to allow ‘creep’ over time because they all have a rubber-like base.

Wood glues are mainly waterproof or not, waterproof is preferred. I personally use Titebond II (no, I don’t own shares). Wood glues allow you to move the veneer in place before you clamp it down, but there is the rub, you need lots of clamps and pieces of MDF or plywood. Although I have veneered cabinets using wood glues and a small hard rubber roller, you just keep rolling the veneer down while the glues sets up – not the sort of project to start unless you have the time.

Surface preparation:

As might be expected the surface must be clean and free of dust. Cases that have a vinyl covering must necessarily be stripped of the vinyl with a heat gun – tedious but necessary even if you plan on using a vinyl again, because there are always dings to fill in (wood putty) and corners to re-build (more wood putty). If you plan on using vinyl I cannot stress enough, vacuum the work space and wipe down the case surfaces with a cloth or paper towel dampened with mineral spirits. The tiniest bit of debris stuck under vinyl will look like a mountain.

The chosen adhesive should be applied according to the manufacturer’s directions and the veneer applied. When the adhesive is set trim the excess with a sharp knife or veneer saw. I use a #11 Xacto knife because the narrow blade lets you direct the angle of cut more easily than a wide blade. If you can trim the piece of veneer ahead of time so that it is only slightly oversize, trimming will be easier. Above all resist the temptation to take big cuts else the veneer may split on you and break off past the edge.

Where to start:

Much depends upon what you are veneering. Some receiver cases fit behind the faceplate and only cover the sides and top. These are simple, do the sides first, then the top. Some receiver cases have the receiver slipped into the case with the faceplate recessed. A bit more difficult, you veneer the inside of the lip around the faceplate. Trim that, then veneer the face edges. Trim that, then do the sides and lastly do the top.

Which is the best method:

It depends on what you are doing. I like wood glue since it does not have the ‘wherever it lands is where it stays’ risk of contact cement. However I also have over $275 worth of clamps, not exactly what you would want to spend for one veneer job. No more than you would want a quart of contact cement to do an SX-1250 case. Here is where iron on veneers have the edge. So I cannot in good conscience state that this method is better than that method.

Rob

Here is a suggestion. I have four empty cases, all Yamaha; one will fit the 1020 or 2020, one will fit the 620 or 820, one will fit the 600 or 800 and lastly there is one that will fit a 640 or 840. I could veneer one of them and take pictures of the process but I would prefer to have a customer for the finished product as I am running low on veneers and strange as it sounds, they want money for new lots of veneer.

Rob

Here is a website for veneer that I found very useful http://www.woodnshop.com. I had never used veneer before, but I bought the walnut veneer with the self adhesive backing and it was very easy to use. I used it to redo the tops of some speakers and it was a breeze. The peel and stick was a good way for me to begin working with veneer. That's just my .02

Interesting link to a klipsch restoration with some veneering tips.

http://www.dcchomes.com/Heresy.html

The people I deal with have beautiful real wood venners. I used walnut for my speakers. They have a wide range of species in a wide range of sizes. The speakers look great! If anyone here on AK has a specific requirement, let me know and I'll check with them.

Ron

I'm ready to tackle wood veneering, and can't wait for an all-in one place for tips here! I will add though, that this is just like art class in grade school. It takes some actual talent to really make a job look great. Don't know if I have the right stuff. (Always got a C ). But my advancing years have taught me that patience can go a long way when talent has been exhausted. :D

Everyone has there own ways. Here is a link to a project I did covering the build a couple of years ago. I do need to do another. DIY Speaker (http://206.225.95.32/forums/showthread.php?t=24126)

I have jumped into re-veneering my Klipsh Forte's. One item I ordered and recived was a veneer saw from Rockler... Works like a champ. I removed the 2 small bases and have re-veneered them. Used the saw to trim the veneer over hang from the bases. The saw does a bang up job of cutting off the over hange flush... If my work area was larger I woud have used it to trim the over hange on the first speaker I am working on. Cost a bit over $20.00 with sharpening added in... Would work like a champ on case re-veneering projects....

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=1094

As far as a seamless cut between 2 pieces of veneer goes, I've found that overlapping them then cutting works better that the way the author did it. He cut the edges with a straight edge.

Ron