Progressive scan????

[THOR]

What is progressive scan on a DVD? Is it worth the extra cost for a player and the $60 - $80 for the special cable?? Anyone here use it?

[ProAc_Fan]

Thor, in any TV set with a picture tube each frame is displayed by "painting" or scanning lines horizontally across the face of the tube. For each frame, interlaced video scans alternating lines in 2 1/60 second passes- first all the odd-numbered lines making up the frame and then the even-numbered lines- while progressive scanning paints all the lines in numerical order in a single 1/60 second pass. With twice as many lines scanned in every pass, progressive scan images have better vertical resolutuion than interlaced images and are free of the jagged edges on diagonal lines and borders present in interlaced video. Thor to take advantage of progressive scan you need a TV that can use it otherwise its a waste.But if you've got one it's worth the extra $50 or $100 to get progressive scan.

Mike

[michael w]

For an explaination of what progressive scan is...

http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.8


As to whether it is worth it ..it depends !

On how fussy a viewer you are.

Whether your TV can accept a progressive scan signal.

Some modern digital sets have builtin video convertors that can produce just as good results by upconverting an interlaced signal.

So like most qualitative aspects of AV ...YMMV.


Regards,

[THOR]

This is the TV I am leaning heavily towards purchasing:

http://www.bestbuy.com/detail.asp?e=11100679&m=1&cat=24&scat=25

Would I benefit from progressive scan?

[michael w]

That JVC looks nice !
Wish we had sets like that availble here.
But we don't have and probably never will have HDTV, so there's zero chance of anything like that coming here.

:(


That set has what I was talking about ..a built-in upscaler that internally converts all sources to 1080i resolution as well as built-in line doubling and progressive scan display.

My bet is that such advanced built-in processing may be just as good with a standard DVD player.

The only way to know is to have a demo with both interlaced and progressive scan DVD players.

If you are also after a new DVD player there are lots of affordable progressive scan DVD players out now, the cost isn't that much more than an interlaced player.

If you already have a player, it will probably look great through that JVC.

This site is a great resource for DVD player reviews and information on progressive scan.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html


cheerio

[THOR]

Yeah I saw some Progressive scan DVD players that weren't that much more than regular ones but what WAS mucho expensive was the special cable you need to buy for it, at Circuit City it was $80 :eek:

[michael w]

What was so special about the cable ?

All the progressive scan players I've seen output the prog.scan video signal thru the component video outputs with 3x RCA connectors.

All you need is to get 3x decent quality 75 Ohm RCA cables; eg Ratshack Gold.

The fancy cables with three conductors all stuck together as one cable are convenient and look tidier but are not essential.


cheerio

[reyneman]

Once you start on the dark path of expensive cables, there is no return.

I agree with Michael W, special cables are not required, believe this is a profit maker for BB.

I do think good looking cables are required (coolosity factor matters), and I do believe you can get better shielding and assembly at the $80 level than the prepackaged ones.

[WildWest]

YES progressive scan is worth it. The Panny RP82 is an amazing performer. I did a review here about it when I got mine. For right around 200 bucks I don't think you can beat it. And you don't need no stinkin fancy cables to hook up component video.

Someone said earlier that they don't think they will ever get HDTV? I wonder why they said that. In a very short time, all stations will be offering that signal "off air" very soon and you merely stick your antenna up, get your 1080i TV, decoder box and you are in!

[House de Kris]

Originally posted by WildWest
said earlier that they don't think they will ever get HDTV? I wonder why they said that. In a very short time, all stations will be offering that signal "off air" very soon and you merely stick your antenna up, get your 1080i TV, decoder box and you are in!

That other person has a location of NZ, which I assume to be New Zealand. As such, the FCC does not mandate their usage of the airwaves.

[WildWest]

ahhhhh another country. Well that certainly explains it now don't it?

[THOR]

The guy told me you need a cable that divides up the blues, reds,and greens he showed it to me it looked different than the yellow red and white AV cables that come with everything.

[michael w]

'Twas I who said we weren't getting HDTV.

We have FTA digital, pay digital and pay cable TV (all at SDTV level) here but going HDTV appears to be too big a financial hurdle for any investors, given our small market.

Plus our guv'mint ain't stumpng up any cash.
Instead they go wasting millions on Maori TV which bugger all people will ever see.

:mad:

So once again we get stuck in the stone age as the rest of the western world advances...

:(

And yes , the Panasonic RP82 is amazing, it got the top rating in the last Secrets of Home Theater pro.scan DVD Player Shoot-out.

At only $200 , why buy a no-name brand ???


cheerio

[Thatch_Ear]

I hooked up progressive scan today and like it better than S cable which I like better than the single video IC. I used 3 ICs that I paid $6.50 ea for, nothing special.

[THOR]

Both of the TV's I am thinking of getting have an upscaler built in and in reviews I have read on one they said the TV looked better without progressive scan and that they saw artifacts on screen with progressive scan.

[Thatch_Ear]

Well since you have all those ICs you can easily find out. My new set does it pretty much by itself but I would rather use the electronics in the player since it is what will be replaced the soonest. Other than that I highly recommend the S cable for your picture.

[THOR]

What about optical cables??

[ProAc_Fan]

Thor if you're gonna use the digital out on a DVD player the 75ohm digital coax cable is the one to use. It's a much better performer than any fiber optic ( toslink) cable. It's also more expensive but hey you only live once.

Mike

[THOR]

What is the best way to hook up a dvd for the best picture quality?

Svideo?
RCA's?
Optical?
digital coax cable?

[michael w]

If your DVD player/TV combo supports it:

Component video ...the 3x RCA video outputs color coded Red, Green, Blue.

Ideally your new TV will also have individual input memories to store your picture settings as component will often need different settings to S-video/composite.

For digital audio best use the coaxial output.
No fancy cable necessary, just a 75 ohm RCA terminated cable, the same as you would use for video will work fine.


cheerio

[WildWest]

Yup, yup, yup...What they said. Component and Coaxial.

[House de Kris]

So, it would seem we've got three people here who agree with the suggestion that coax is superior for DVD connections. For SPDIF, I completely agree that copper is superior to plastic for the digital interconnect. But, for AC-3, DTS, or even MPEG audio (if your receiver can handle it) I can't fathom a reason for coax to beat out toslink. Those compressed formats do not include word clock as part of the stream. Unless toslink is known to contribute bit errors, I fail to see the problem with it.

Anyone care to share their personal experiences on this matter?

[Thatch_Ear]

I thought the fiber optic was just for sound not that I have ever considered it.

[WildWest]

Not that I completely understand the workings but I said to myself...Self, when the audio signal leaves my DVD player, in order for it to go out via a light form (toslink), that signal must be processed to that light form. Then when it arrives at my AVR it must be processed from a light form signal back to the oringinal signal. Anyway I thought hmmmmm room for error? But the coax digital audio cable does not have to make that change right? Am I completely off base here? :dunno:

[Thatch_Ear]

Could be it goes direct from the laser to the toss, but it certainly would have to be unscrambled by the HTR and then DACed. I'm not sure but it could be that some of the decoding is done in the DVD player 1st if you are using an IC as a dig patch.
My friend Dennis Boyle has been selling 100% OFC ICs for Dig patch and according to him the people that have tried them say that there has been a great improvement in the sonics and I know for a fact that they are not 75 ohm cables. Go figure. Could be Monster has a deal going with the AV folks. Sure is the only brand you can get in Tweeter and last time I checked Monster was the only Dig cable available in Best Buy. $40 ea and they have brass RCA plugs. RS ought to work just as well as they have OFC pos signal too.

[THOR]

So whats the dilly yo? Are plain old RCA's the way to go for both digital and video? There seems to be no consensus. Also I know it may be some work but can I see pictures of what people are talking avout? I assume toslink is the optical? I know what that is. I know what an S-video cable is. I know what the cable looks like that connects to the HD reciever. I know what the RCA's we use for our stereos look like. But what is a "75 ohm RCA terminated cable" and a "75ohm digital coax cable " and "Component and Coaxial" I am sorry I am a noob at this and if I am spending about $3000 for a HDTV and some HT stuff I wanna make sure I hook it up right and in the way that gives me the best picture and sound. I really appreciate all the help from everyone.

[House de Kris]

Thor, sorry for nearly high-jacking the thread. Didn't mean to add confusion to your dilema. In a nutshell, for audio use the coax connection. This will have the familiar RCA connectors on the ends. It will be a 75 ohm cable. For video, use the component connections. These too will have the familiar RCA connectors on the ends. These too will be 75 ohms.

What kinds of pictures are you asking for?

Yes, TosLink is an optical hookup.

[THOR]

Are these 75ohm thingies the normal RCA interconnects we use with our stereos to hook up components?

[michael w]

Hi Thor,

75 ohms is the optimum impedance for video cables (and digital audio cable).

The RCA plugs also have an impedance.
For video these too should be 75 ohms.

The problem is that many cables don't meet this specification.

There was a big video cable test in Widescreen Review magazine years ago, where they found that many cables marked as "video" cables were in fact only 50 ohm cables, these usually had color problems etc.

Others used 75 ohm wire with 50 ohm plugs, also with losses in performance.

To get the best hookup both the cable and the plugs should be of 75 ohms.

Most good quality cables should have this information marked on the cable or on the pack.

Hope that helps.


Regards,

[michael w]

The main reason for the inferior sound of Toslink compared with coax digital connections seems to be a combination of:

The conversion needed at each end as the digital data is converted from an electrical signal to light then back to electrical and;

The poor mechanical connection that Toslink uses plus the generally low quality of optical cables. The connectors lack mechanical integrity, usually being crummy plastic moulded jobs.

The cables are fragile and also poorly constructed but they are cheap, which is the main reason for their proliferation amongst comsumer equipment.


The only optical digital connection I know of that performs as well as coax was the AT&T glass system which used a high quality fibreglass cable and matching high quality connectors. This was used on many High End digital transports and processors. The connectors and cables were of very high quality but too expensive for mainstrean use. Even getting to be a rarity amongst current High End digital equipment.


cheerio

[botrytis]

The optical link has problems because the cables are so fragile. They kink, bend, and basically have general problems that way.

Component Video (I think every one was talking about component not composite (what most cheap VCR's have) is best then S-Video is next.

Progressive scan is the way to go for your DVD player - look for a really simple explanation here (This is the type I like:D ) - http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/0-3219398-8-6226096-1.html

You will need a progressive scan DVD once everyone is getting HDTV.

I hope this helps.

Dave