IPods and You

[Negotiableterms]

This forum is about iPods and other Digital Audio Players. You ask why?

For 1/1/05 through 10/31/05, total sales volume of all Home Audio Equipment was about $1,549,000,000. Of that, sales of CD players and recorders were a measley $58,231,000. Total sales of Digital Audio Players were $1,784,000,000. One in four households then owned a digital audio player ("DAP"), and 70-80 percent were iPods. That was October. Apple has now reported that at year-end 2005, it had sold 35,000,000 iPods, of which 14,000,000 were in the 4th quarter of 2005. Apple alone is expected to sell something like 2,000,000 per month in 2006. Total sales of turntables were not reported, as they are statistically insignificant, slightly behind home CD players.

With its playlists and ability to play losslessly compressed files, the iPod is a micro-sized music server, but this sub-forum isn't limited to iPods. Any DAP is included.

There's no such thing as a vintage iPod, but whether vintagephiles like it or not, digital storage of music, one track at a time, appears to be here, and here to stay. AK is all about the music, so the goal of this forum is to understand how we can maximize the quality of digital storage and downloaded music, and learn what gear does it best, and with the highest value, in an effort to integrate the iPod into our music enjoyment.

[Lefty]

This forum is about iPods and other Digital Audio Players. You ask why?

For 1/1/05 through 10/31/05, total sales volume of all Home Audio Equipment was about $1,549,000,000. Of that, sales of CD players and recorders were a measley $58,231,000. Total sales of Digital Audio Players were $1,784,000,000. One in four households then owned a digital audio player ("DAP"), and 70-80 percent were iPods. That was October. Apple has now reported that at year-end 2005, it had sold 35,000,000 iPods, of which 14,000,000 were in the 4th quarter of 2005. Apple alone is expected to sell something like 2,000,000 per month in 2006. Total sales of turntables were not reported, as they are statistically insignificant, slightly behind home CD players.

With its playlists and ability to play losslessly compressed files, the iPod is a micro-sized music server, but this sub-forum isn't limited to iPods. Any DAP is included.

There's no such thing as a vintage iPod, but whether vintagephiles like it or not, digital storage of music, one track at a time, appears to be here, and here to stay. AK is all about the music, so the goal of this forum is to understand how we can maximize the quality of digital storage and downloaded music, and learn what gear does it best, and with the highest value, in an effort to integrate the iPod into our music enjoyment.


While being a die in the wool vintage fan, I have nothing against this new format and media. If it can be patched into my AUX port then it belongs with any other source I have, including my Pioneer HR-100 8 track. However if the avalible tunes cannot be aquired in lossless format or have been mixed with lots of compression I will probably hold off on aquiring one. So far many report that sound quality not all that hot, but I'm sure there is lots of variation in software and listener's perception.

Lefty

[sandoz]

Nicely Done!

[Mark W.]

QUESTION would this now be the forum for PC based music sources? Another words if I use my laptop as a source for my SA-9100 would I ask questions or make comments on it's use here?

If so I think the new Forum will be a great addition.

[dingus]

until i heard Mark W.'s iPod, i thought my Creative Nomad Jukebox sounded pretty good. then i realized that at some point i had been using it with the EQ sound activated. now that the EQ is off, i think it sounds pretty good again.

i use mine mostly for work and use only maximum quality mp3's (320kb bitrate). its plugged into a Sansui 2000a receiver and a pair of Advent Utilities. sounds very good, better than mp3's have a right to.

[BeerCan]

I have grown pretty attached to my rio karma. I have no stereo in my car so I use my karma with an altec lansing im7. Sounds pretty good for a mobile rig. Of course only flacs will do. Not really necessary but it makes me feel better

[Negotiableterms]

QUESTION would this now be the forum for PC based music sources? Another words if I use my laptop as a source for my SA-9100 would I ask questions or make comments on it's use here? If so I think the new Forum will be a great addition.

Thanks and good question. Actually, there's another sub-forum for "PC-Based Music Servers" which would probably be even closer. In fact, there's already a thread there on laptops into analog. On the other hand, it's not like you'll get beaten on if your post is slightly in the wrong sub-forum. The worst that could happen is that your post may not get the attention it deserves.

[Mark W.]

Negotiableterms I just noticed the new way the forum has been organized and I like it. Got a lot to deal with right now just getting the main system up and running but in the near future I will have a lots of interest in this subject. I want to be able to use my Laptop as a server as well as traveling stereo system for when the wife and I go out and about. SO there will be lots of questions and hopefully lots of feedback as I learn my own system about what works and what doesn't.

[fropiler]

Does she really, or are there better choices for portable mp3 playing devices out there? looking for some pros and cons. any input appreciated.

Thanks,
Ed

[Negotiableterms]

Does she really, or are there better choices for portable mp3 playing devices out there? looking for some pros and cons. any input appreciated.

The iPod is capable of playing ALC (lossless compression) files. Most other MP3 players do not handle lossless compression. There are some that handle WMA.

The iPods are well made, very well styled, reliable, etc. If I were buying one now for a kid, I'd find a cheap Nano on eBay, because being SS, there's no HD inside to break when it gets dropped, etc. The HD models will hold a lot more, but does a kid really need more than 6GB of music?

I know, I'm old and old-fashioned.

[mg196]

Does she really, or are there better choices for portable mp3 playing devices out there? looking for some pros and cons. any input appreciated.

Thanks,
Ed

There is a reason that iPods have an iron grip on the market right now - they are the best at what they do. Yes, there are other choices, but at the moment the iPod has no cons (in my book) other than initial cost.

I have an iPod mini. My dad and brother have the video iPod.

[uofmtiger]

Yes, there are other choices, but at the moment the iPod has no cons (in my book) other than initial cost. I love the iPod, but the main con for me is that they are not being supported by any of the monthly service fee based companies (Rhapsody, Yahoo, & Napster). I have two iPods, a 2nd Gen 20GB version and a Shuffle, but my Creative Zen is the one I take on the road with me.

Personally, I feel no real need to buy music for $1 a song off of iTunes or more on MusicGiants. If I really like something, I will buy the CD/SACD, but in the meantime, I can listen all I want for $15 a month on Rhapsody.

Unfortunately, Yahoo now charges $10 a month for their unlimited to go service, so the days of the $50 for a year of unlimited+"to-go" are over. Not sure if your daughter is into music enough to pay that much for the service. I am, but I am a fiend when it comes to music variety.

Also, iPod makes it very difficult to change out the battery. My 2G version has worked for years without an issue, but I hear others have had battery problems in much less time.

Finally, she will probably be happy with any brand you buy her. The iPod is the "hip" mp3 player for the moment, so that may appeal to her. However, once she is able to take her music on the road she will be very happy with any of the players.

As Bill Gibbons on ZZ Top put it: "I think the iPod is a convenience tool that liberates one from having to pull wagons full of heavy products down the steet".

[bytor]

hello i am interested in getting a i-pod soon. i will probably get the shuffle as i would mainly be using it in the car or when i am mowing the lawn, ect. is there a good fm transmitter that anyone could recommend? also what do you think of the i-pod shuffle? i don't need that much memory and i believe it is a flash memory so the batteries will last longer.

[uofmtiger]

hello i am interested in getting a i-pod soon. i will probably get the shuffle as i would mainly be using it in the car or when i am mowing the lawn, ect. is there a good fm transmitter that anyone could recommend? also what do you think of the i-pod shuffle? i don't need that much memory and i believe it is a flash memory so the batteries will last longer.For what you want it for, it will work great. I bought my shuffle for the small size and I mainly wanted it for yard work and other outdoor activities. I also bought a sports case (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00074Z9OQ/ref=pd_sxp_elt_l1/002-9931460-5008819?n=172282) to keep it dry.

The sound quality is very good on this player. If you can live without a display and only want to access your own tunes (rather that a vareity of tunes by a service like Rhapsody), you should be very happy. :thmbsp:

Here is one of my pups enjoying his (the case protects it from all the drooling):

http://www.pbase.com/uofmtiger/image/41479822/medium.jpg

[ozmoid]

I love the iPod, but the main con for me is that they are not being supported by any of the monthly service fee based companies (Rhapsody, Yahoo, & Napster).
File format/Operating system/DRM Licensing/incompatibilities are all impeding progress in that arena.

I like the format at the iTunes store, but I have recently subscribed to yourmusic.com and will probably not buy much at iTunes. I mainly used it for "mix albums", where I did not want to purchase an entire cd I knew I would never listen to.

Personally, I prefer to make Cassette tapes off my vinyl albums and give them away for free. :finger: RIAA!!

[uofmtiger]

File format/Operating system/DRM Licensing/incompatibilities are all impeding progress in that arena. You point out why it is best to buy CDs if you want the whole album. I also belong to yourmusic, but I only buy Hi-Rez music from them. I would never advocate using iTunes to anyone unless they only want one song off an album and do not mind buying compressed, somewhat-disposable, music.

I personally prefer Rhapsody because I like to listen to full albums by many different artists. Right now, I have a bunch of Rhapsody tunes at work with me. I am listening to Kathleen Edwards now and I have David Gilmour and Van Morrison's new albums on tap. It is a lot of variety, but I still would not recommend a membership for a casual music fan that buys maybe one CD a month. I spent a lot more than that on CDs and this has saved me a lot of money.

[birddog]

I would highly recommend any of the iAudio players by Cowan audio. they sound better than most, come with decent 'phones (Sennheiser) and the JetAudio software will do everything but cook you breakfast. They have lots of different models, look 'em up on the web and check the specs against an iPod.

[birddog]

OOPS! "Cowon", not "Cowan", Cowan is an Australian audio company!

[birddog]

http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/

[ozmoid]

I personally prefer Rhapsody because I like to listen to full albums by many different artists. Right now, I have a bunch of Rhapsody tunes at work with me. I am listening to Kathleen Edwards now and I have David Gilmour and Van Morrison's new albums on tap. It is a lot of variety, but I still would not recommend a membership for a casual music fan that buys maybe one CD a month. I spent a lot more than that on CDs and this has saved me a lot of money.That's exactly why I like iTunes - it's free, and I don't use a lot of dispoable income on new music. The one CD a month at yourmusic is about my speed. (Add the fact that anything I download is tied to the computer unless I burn a CD - I don't have an mp3 player!)

One of the big advantages I see in ANY service is the opportunity to audition new artists without scanning the radio stations or buying music "blind" off the top ten list. Case in point: Anna Nalick (Breathe 2am) was a free download at iTunes 4 to 6 months before "Breathe" climbed onto the charts. The music is beautiful, the lyrics kick butt, and I might never have heard it if it hadn't been a promotional item!

[Negotiableterms]

Ozmoid, please take a look at MusicGiants.com and let us know what you think. They claim to be the only download source for true CD quality and SACD. I haven't had the time to really look yet, but it's on my list...which grows daily.

[ozmoid]

MusicGiants is claiming encoding at 1100+ bps in lossless Windows Media format. The software runs only on Windows XP, and the music is (naturally) DRM. There are no details about the DRM restrictions, other than you can't convert the files to other formats. The files will only play on the computer they are originally downloaded to, unless you update your DRM files to enable another computer. The way this reads on the site, it sounds like only one computer at a time can be enabled. Of course, you can burn the files to Audio CD then you're home free, the DRM should be gone.

Songs are $1.29 each, service only works in the US, and albums average a little over $15.

I can't try it out, because I'm running Mac OS 10.3.8 and don't feel like searching for a windows hack after midnight. One of you guys already on XP give it a shot!

[Negotiableterms]

MusicGiants is claiming encoding at 1100+ bps in lossless Windows Media format. The software runs only on Windows XP, and the music is (naturally) DRM. There are no details about the DRM restrictions, other than you can't convert the files to other formats. The files will only play on the computer they are originally downloaded to, unless you update your DRM files to enable another computer. The way this reads on the site, it sounds like only one computer at a time can be enabled. Of course, you can burn the files to Audio CD then you're home free, the DRM should be gone.

Songs are $1.29 each, service only works in the US, and albums average a little over $15.

WOW!!! You're fast! I've been meaning to give them a look for weeks now, but it's tax time, so I'm swamped. Thanks very, very much for your effort!

Overall, do you think it's a step up from the others, as claimed?

[sorenj07]

I would go with a rio karma personally. I've had an ipod and it's not all it's cracked up to be - sure everyone at school has them, and the buttons are nice, but it was _horrible_ for playing cds of mixed songs, for example, not only because of the inherent padding introduced with mp3 encoding but because there's a delay of about a half second REGARDLESS OF FORMAT when playing back on an ipod. However, to put things into perspective (and to calm down a bit :P), Apple does have solid tech support, the nano is small, and I doubt your child will get as bent out of shape over these flaws as me - so in effect, it's a question of what she would want. You know her better than us :P

[2DualsNotEnough]

I owned a 30gb ipod last year,and since I was only using it when doing chores around the house or after my wife went to sleep,I found it a daunting task to stop what I was doing to access the song or set of songs I wanted,plus it seemed a little bulky to me.I also hated the fact that if I wanted to add songs to it later I had to keep my entire playlist on itunes,THEN add songs to that playlist to download.
I thought that maybe this format was just too much for me,until I read a few really informative articles on Consumer Reports website about different types of players.I found that for me,the flash players were best,since you didnt have that big hard drive,and on some you could add an external SD memory card to increase storage.When I went shopping for one this week,I found out that a lot of companies have phased out the external card feature.
I finally found an RCA Lyra that was perfect for my use-external card option,small,flash player,256mb built in,and best of all it was only $40.Im using it with my Grado SR-60's,and its not a bad combination.Its pretty limited in the kind of files it will accept-it wouldnt take my AAC files,but overall,Im pretty happy with it.Its like the modern version of the old cassette walkman:you wouldnt use it for critical listening,but its a lot more convenient than carrying around a cd player and a stack of cds.
Jimmy

[ozmoid]

WOW!!! You're fast! I've been meaning to give them a look for weeks now, but it's tax time, so I'm swamped. Thanks very, very much for your effort!

Overall, do you think it's a step up from the others, as claimed?Sorry, NT, I missed this when you posted it.

CD audio is encoded at 1,411.2 kbps. iTunes downloads are certainly lower than THAT, and certainly lower than MusicGiants. I will check out the encoding tomorrow when I'm at my "music" computer and post again.

Now I'm also curious about the "Apple Lossless" encoder in iTunes, and how it compares to CD audio vs. iTunes Store vs. MusicGiants. I do know that downloaded Tracks sound pretty darn good at iTMS, and I'm wondering if that's a variable bitrate... :scratch2:

[ozmoid]

The skinny on iTunes:

Music Purchased from the iTMS: 128kbps, 44.1 hz.

AIFF file at 48 hz: 1536 kbps

AIFF file at 44.1 hz: 1411 kbps

Apple Lossless encoder: 958 kbps, 44.1 hz

I use iTunes (the software) to RIP/MIX/BURN ( :D ) and I like it - simple interface, loads of settings for audio import, good results even with high compression ratios (<192 kbps).

I use iTMS (the music store) mainly for the "Free Track" featured each week. It's a great way to find new artists I might not have otherwise heard/discovered. I also like the DRM Apple uses, it is very generous (IMHO) with the number of times you can burn each track to disc, or the number of times you can burn an individual playlist. And as always, once you have the songs on CD, they can be re-imported (usually at a higher bitrate to reduce artifacting/quality loss issues) DRM-free.

Downloaded songs sound quite good on all the systems I've tried them on, some of you may have gear that reveals the "lack" of these mp4's more readily than mine does.

[Goldbug7]

Doesn't seem to have been any activity in here for some time so perhaps it's time to point out Krell's KID coming out later this month. (11/07) It essentially by-passes the iPod circuitry, has an integrated pre-amp with a Krell DAC.

I spoke with the Krell rep here in Canada and he commented that after testing it with WMA files, everyone in the room agreed that it "sounded unbelievably close to the Krell 505." I ordered one without even listening as I had been waiting a long time for someone to come up with such a device which essentially turns your iPod into a quality and inexpensive music server. (relatively speaking) as for me I only buy CD's and rip using lossless on my iMac so it seemed perfect.

Oh, and I almost forgot. Along with the KID I just ordered a pair of MC 1201's to power my 802D's Will be getting that in January as it was seriously over my budget. But after a lot of research and reading on this forum, I felt it was the best choice as my room is fairly large. I did look at a lot of other amps and almost bought a Krell. I am so glad I didn't and that I discovered Mcintosh before I made what I would consider to have been a mistake.

Any one else thinking of the KID? Now if only Mcintosh made a comparable device...

[onepixel]

Doesn't seem to have been any activity in here for some time so perhaps it's time to point out Krell's KID coming out later this month. (11/07) It essentially by-passes the iPod circuitry, has an integrated pre-amp with a Krell DAC.

I spoke with the Krell rep here in Canada and he commented that after testing it with WMA files, everyone in the room agreed that it "sounded unbelievably close to the Krell 505." I ordered one without even listening as I had been waiting a long time for someone to come up with such a device which essentially turns your iPod into a quality and inexpensive music server. (relatively speaking) as for me I only buy CD's and rip using lossless on my iMac so it seemed perfect.

Oh, and I almost forgot. Along with the KID I just ordered a pair of MC 1201's to power my 802D's Will be getting that in January as it was seriously over my budget. But after a lot of research and reading on this forum, I felt it was the best choice as my room is fairly large. I did look at a lot of other amps and almost bought a Krell. I am so glad I didn't and that I discovered Mcintosh before I made what I would consider to have been a mistake.

Any one else thinking of the KID? Now if only Mcintosh made a comparable device...

This is the first I've heard of Krell's The Kid. Sounds quite interesting. I know that a lot of manufacturers have jumped on the iPod bandwagon with and endless array of products. But hearing that Krell made a dock is worth taking notice.

I have a 3rd generation 20 gig iPod so I neede to upgrade to a 160 gig. But the more you wait the bigger and cooler those buggers get. I was actually considering a Mini Mac as a music server.

This past weekend I was fooling around with the iPod. I hooked it up to a Cary tube preamp and a vintage Marantz Quad in 2-channel. They're driving some Thiels and the combo sound pretty darn good. I'm hopefully upgrading soon to a new tube amp so that'll probably sound even better.

As for The Kid, the reviewers seemed very impressived. I'm still not quite sold yet using the current iPod as a server, maybe in time.

Thanks for the heads up.

http://onepixeldesign.com/stereo/tube_iPod.jpg

[centralflori]

Does anybody use the Cowon(Jetaudio) mp3 players such as the XL5 30GB or the D2. Speaking from experience the XL5 blows away the ipod on sound quality and build quality IMHO. Also helps to have a good pair of Sennheiser headphones. Not trying to put down the ipods, just know that most here really care about sound quality and most have not heard of or used these Cowon units.

[cruisaire]

Just bought my daughter a new nano (video capable). This is one cool "tiny" player! She picks up a couple of songs a month so I-tunes works well. Downloaded a full length movie last night, tiny but excellent quality image.

[Markway]

I have been using an iPod for some time now; am on my second video version. The big problem with these units are design and support. Apple does NOT support their product. They encourage having them engraved, which they do for free, as it voids most of the warranty. Just try talking or emailing with a real person. That said, the darn things need a replaceable rechargeable battery, like a battery drill or the old cell phones. The video mode drains power fast, and the batteries do die. This has been an innovation that Jobs et al have stubbornly refused to implement.

Now, the real question. I have hooked my iPod up to Shure in ear headphones, and the sound is extraordinary, but when I hook the iPod up to the Aux input on my stereos the sound is muffled and sounds as if it were sonically limited. I don't have the electronics to explain why this is happening. It sounds a bit like comparing a low quality cassette to an audiophile LP or a CD. Can anyone explain this to me?

[ecandle]

I have a Gen 3 ipod, it is easy to use and looks cool as it has control buttons that glow and the scroll pad works in combination. I also have an iriver IHP 120, a nice unit and cheap. Both have been loaded with freeware, by rock box ( www.rockbox.org ), this is open architecture, and it allows you to load transfer and even record in WAV and I transfer and enjoy FLAC files with them every day. The iriver is the live AUD bootleggers device of choice for stealth recording. The iriver is bullet proof when rockboxed, the ipod software is good but a little buggy, when you load the ipod it also keeps Steve Jobs on board and you can switch to open mode or itunes mode upon boot up.

[Goldbug7]

Not too long ago I posted about the new iPod docking station by Krell which bypasses the internal iPod circuitry. It has a small preamp section, Krells DAC does the decoding and is fully balanced. Mine was delivered on Friday (10/30/07)

Right out of the box the quality using lossless files was very good. I played it all through the weekend (about 50 hours of play) I'm really not sure if it was my imagination or not but at about 40 or so hours of burn time the preamp section really opened up. The highs were exceptionally smooth with gorgeous mid detail and a wide sound stage.

With the arrival of the Krell KID, in my opinion the iPod has come of age. A very nice, good quality server at a very reasonable price. Anyone in the market for something of this nature should certainly have a listen. Krell did not disappoint - It actually exceeded my expectations.

[rushfan]

i use mine mostly for work and use only maximum quality mp3's (320kb bitrate). its plugged into a Sansui 2000a receiver and a pair of Advent Utilities. sounds very good, better than mp3's have a right to.

I have always maintained that really well encoded mp3's sound good, as do high bitrate WMA files. One thing that I have noticed is that most mp3's clip since they don't have the bandwidth to adequately reproduce the original signal. The trick is to reduce the gain in order to eliminate the clipping. MP3Gain is ideal for this purpose and better still - it's free.

[tlgibbs]

Like any music media, there are pros and cons to what an iPod can do. I personally have an 80 gig iPod and find it to be extremely good at one important thing: travel. I can load my favorite music on my iPod and take it wherever I want. There is simply nothing that even comes close to iPod's portability. I always keep a patchcord with my accessories so that I can plug in to any home system or use my own portable speakers. I take it camping, flying, everywhere. Within my circle of friends I am known as the man with the tunes, because I always have my iPod and I'm ready to plug in.

I have done side by side comparisons of the sound quality of mp3 versus vinyl, cd, tape, etc. The compression takes something away, no doubt about it. But how many times has someone said to me "gee, I dont think the guitar solo on While My Guitar Gently Weeps from your iPod has as much presence as on my remastered version that I play through my expensive SACD through my esoteric amplifier and into my expensive speakers!?" Of course the answer is never! Are mp3's perfect? No. Do they do some things very well? Yes. Would I want it as my only music source? Probably not. But I wouldn't want any media format as my only source. Each has it's place.

That's my 2 cents worth. :D

[rhom]

Not too long ago I posted about the new iPod docking station by Krell which bypasses the internal iPod circuitry. It has a small preamp section, Krells DAC does the decoding and is fully balanced. Mine was delivered on Friday (10/30/07)

Right out of the box the quality using lossless files was very good. I played it all through the weekend (about 50 hours of play) I'm really not sure if it was my imagination or not but at about 40 or so hours of burn time the preamp section really opened up. The highs were exceptionally smooth with gorgeous mid detail and a wide sound stage.

With the arrival of the Krell KID, in my opinion the iPod has come of age. A very nice, good quality server at a very reasonable price. Anyone in the market for something of this nature should certainly have a listen. Krell did not disappoint - It actually exceeded my expectations.

As you can see from my signature line, I have the Wadia i170 iPod docking station. This product is similar to the Krell KID that Goldbug7 has written about in that docking your pod sends code from the Wadia to disable your iPod's internal DAC. Unlike the KID, the wadia was intended to be used with the external DAC of your choice, there is no supplied DAC. I am using a McCormack DAC-1 that I purchased for $250 off Audiogon. The Wadia comes with a remote that works on your iPod

I purchased the Wadia even though you can also see that I am a Krell owner. Not because of anything being wrong with the KID, but just a cost consideration. The Wadia is about $375 when ordered directly from the company. Used DACs are relatively inexpensive and all of them are more than good enough for use with an iPod. So, depending upon the DAC you purchase, you can have a Wadia setup for a lot less than the KID.

I agree with Goldbug7, the audio quality of the better MP3 and iTunes files lurking within our iPods is a lot better than any of us may think! I have been very impressed and have greatly enjoyed listening to my iPod music collection.

I bought the Wadia because I have acquired some 10,000 plus MP3s & iTunes downloads of vintage pop music, 95% of which I do not have the original LP or CD recordings. Playing my iPod through a standard docking station, which bypasses the iPod's internal audio amp gives mediocre audio quality (you are hearing the iPod's cheap internal DAC). I wanted better sound quality and it would cost a fortune to buy the original tracks.

As mentioned, I am greatly enjoying this setup. Most tracks are as Goldbug7 has described; open, smooth, great resolution and soundstage, much cleaner bass. It all depends upon the recording, no different than with source LPs or CDs. The sound of many of these vintage tracks is much better than I can recall from the LPs and audio systems of my college days. Good enough that I no longer look for the originals.

Note: the Wadia works only with the current iPod generation (6th generation), either hard drive or memory chip versions or iTouch/iPhone or the 5th generation iPod Video. You really want the latest generation anyway, much more capacity and much faster CPUs to find your tracks. I hooked my old pod up in my car, great move. Another note: if you rip CD tracks in Apple Lossless format, the sound quality is pretty much indistinguishable from the CD original.

The Wadia or the KID are highly, highly recommended. Buy either one and you just acquired the most user-friendly high-end music server system on the planet. Fill up your pod? Just buy another and divide your music genres between them. Might make you decide against buying one of those $5K-$10K audiophile music server systems. Also, IMHO the Squeezebox series units don't sound nearly as good as these unless you hook them up to external DACs, they aren't as user friendly as your pod either.

Best Wishes,

Rick

[Negotiableterms]

I too have the Wadia. In fact, I have two of them, and would like to buy two more (3 homes and one office system...).

I've had no problems with them at all, and I find the quality on Apple Lossless to be every bit as good (or even almost better) than the CD.

A high-capacity iPod and a Wadia is all the music server most folk will ever need, and anyone with an HT receiver has a DAC that can work with the Wadia.

Honestly, I think the 170 is the product of the decade.

[Njord Noatun]

A high-capacity iPod and a Wadia is all the music server most folk will ever need.


The Wadia sounds like a great dedicated iPod pre-amp and one that I would like to try one day: Pretty pricey, no?

As an alternative iPod based solution - and this is the digital setup I am currently enjoying - the iPod Touch has built-in WiFi, and can acquire audio streams from your PC or Mac and pass it onto your amp (or Wadia).

Such setup would be beneficial if you have more music than can fit on even the high-capacity iPods. It also allows you to keep only one copy of the music - on your PC (or Mac or ext. hard drive) - instead of keeping one copy on PC and one on the iPod.

I can recommend the Touch as a music server after having tried it for a while - no skips, failures to connect or dropouts on (802.11) "G" WiFi - works fantastically. :thmbsp:

Edit: And it does Pandora, too!

More info here (http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=190256).

[Negotiableterms]

The Wadia sounds like a great dedicated iPod pre-amp and one that I would like to try one day: Pretty pricey, no?

It's not really a preamp, it just sends the digital stream to your outboard DAC. Pricey? Hmmm... $375 certainly isn't cheap, but it's the only game in town.