Brian
04-05-2003, 01:04 PM
I've moved here from the vintage forum sine it seem more appropriate. I've been comparing the Philips preamp and my McIntosh using a CD. turntable and tuner. I've been using my McIntosh MC2105 amp and alternating between the Klipsch Heresy and Smaller Advents. After a couple of weeks with only the Philips to allow my ears to get acustomed to the sound since I've been using McIntosh for so long, I began the comparison. I still had the problem with the phono preamp as before and have tried several cartridges with the Thorens TD125 with TPII arm. Finally settled on a NOS Pickering 4500 with about 100 hours on it. With it and turning the phono anntenuators down to probably the 2mv level, the preamp is doing better. It seems that at the max gain there is an issue with either impedance or too much gain though the max input is stated as 750mv. The instruments came into focus and except for the highs being a bit hard and more air than the C28 phono section is a pretty good preamp.
Going between the 2 preamps, the Mc puts the presentation closer while at the same time be more laid back. There is more timbre but less resolution. Well, nto exactly so. On a violin the Mc presents a better sense of the wood and soundbox while slightly less of the resolution of the strings. The Philips gives the resolution of the bow as it touches the strings, the draw etc. better. On Piano, the Philips shows its "speed" with the striking of the sting by the hammer. Very fast rise time I suspect. The hammer is slightly harder and the decay almost instant. The Mc is softer and the decay longer.
As to my response to the speed differences, I think of driving in a Lincoln and an MG at 50 mph. In the MG there is a rush, a certain thrill while in the Lincoln there is almost no feeling of moving but a feeling of being transported in a leisurly manner. But going the same spped just delivering different sensory perceptions. Neither right or wrong.
The Philips has a stepped volume control made by Alps. The specs don't give the range between steps but with the gain on the amp fully opened (this was done for all tests), the MC had no problem being adjusted to an acceptable level and with the input attenuators I was able to balance all inputs. With the Philips, fully closed, there was no sound but move it 1, yes 1 notch and it was slighty too loud. The also because of the phono preamp I could not match the CD output to the phono (there's no control on the CD). I did use the variable outputs of the tuner to match. I ended up using the -20 control on the Philips which drops the gain of the preamp by an added 20 db allowing the user to have more control. There is a mute on the preamp so I can only surmise is that this preamp was designed to really be used with power amps of almost any type. It worked well with the MC2105.
The Philips preamp is quieter than the C28 and there was no crosstalk even using the Klipsch.
I received a service manual last night and all ICs seem to be used outside of the signal path. Because of the capacitive switching there is an added board for the switching. I'm sure there was a reason for the esoteric switching but other than for marketing I can't figure out why. I had found the preamp does exhibit 1 of the faults we found in testing these years ago. I can touch the switch to turn the preamp on but when I touch it to turn it off occaisonally it buzzes has a little click but does not engage and turn off. The circuit should exhibit the problem whether turning off or on but it only occurs turning off. If I wet my finger or touch it with a metal object, it works without a hitch. I remember this became a game for my staff years ago. They took bets of who had the most resistance. it turned out to be the girls. The guys only got lucky sometimes and I tended to strike out fairly often. I'll check to see if there is an adjustment for this. All other switches work correctly. Also, found that the bulbs for the lamps are GE1302.
The preamp has a slight veil to the sound but less so than many ss preamps I've heard.
I've decided it with the tuner are keepers. As for the tuner, if you listen to AM and have a good AM station THIS IS THE TUNER TO GET! We have an oldies station in town I like. In doing some comparisons I switched to it (this is the only AM tuner/radio in the basement that even gets AM) and forgot to switch back. I sat back and immediately realized I had mono and the highs were a bit down but the sound was so good I thought I was listening to the local oldies FM station but I switched to mono. It sounded very good. Only when the announcer came on did I realize what I had done. I can not wait to get an outside antenna strung. I'll use it as my AM tuner and will switch between it and the MR77 for FM.
A tougher call is the preamp. I really liked what I heard with it and the MC2105 but also really liked the C28 with the Philips power amp. The C28/MC2105, the C28/Philips or the Philips/MC2105 or the Philips/Philips - stay tuned.
Going between the 2 preamps, the Mc puts the presentation closer while at the same time be more laid back. There is more timbre but less resolution. Well, nto exactly so. On a violin the Mc presents a better sense of the wood and soundbox while slightly less of the resolution of the strings. The Philips gives the resolution of the bow as it touches the strings, the draw etc. better. On Piano, the Philips shows its "speed" with the striking of the sting by the hammer. Very fast rise time I suspect. The hammer is slightly harder and the decay almost instant. The Mc is softer and the decay longer.
As to my response to the speed differences, I think of driving in a Lincoln and an MG at 50 mph. In the MG there is a rush, a certain thrill while in the Lincoln there is almost no feeling of moving but a feeling of being transported in a leisurly manner. But going the same spped just delivering different sensory perceptions. Neither right or wrong.
The Philips has a stepped volume control made by Alps. The specs don't give the range between steps but with the gain on the amp fully opened (this was done for all tests), the MC had no problem being adjusted to an acceptable level and with the input attenuators I was able to balance all inputs. With the Philips, fully closed, there was no sound but move it 1, yes 1 notch and it was slighty too loud. The also because of the phono preamp I could not match the CD output to the phono (there's no control on the CD). I did use the variable outputs of the tuner to match. I ended up using the -20 control on the Philips which drops the gain of the preamp by an added 20 db allowing the user to have more control. There is a mute on the preamp so I can only surmise is that this preamp was designed to really be used with power amps of almost any type. It worked well with the MC2105.
The Philips preamp is quieter than the C28 and there was no crosstalk even using the Klipsch.
I received a service manual last night and all ICs seem to be used outside of the signal path. Because of the capacitive switching there is an added board for the switching. I'm sure there was a reason for the esoteric switching but other than for marketing I can't figure out why. I had found the preamp does exhibit 1 of the faults we found in testing these years ago. I can touch the switch to turn the preamp on but when I touch it to turn it off occaisonally it buzzes has a little click but does not engage and turn off. The circuit should exhibit the problem whether turning off or on but it only occurs turning off. If I wet my finger or touch it with a metal object, it works without a hitch. I remember this became a game for my staff years ago. They took bets of who had the most resistance. it turned out to be the girls. The guys only got lucky sometimes and I tended to strike out fairly often. I'll check to see if there is an adjustment for this. All other switches work correctly. Also, found that the bulbs for the lamps are GE1302.
The preamp has a slight veil to the sound but less so than many ss preamps I've heard.
I've decided it with the tuner are keepers. As for the tuner, if you listen to AM and have a good AM station THIS IS THE TUNER TO GET! We have an oldies station in town I like. In doing some comparisons I switched to it (this is the only AM tuner/radio in the basement that even gets AM) and forgot to switch back. I sat back and immediately realized I had mono and the highs were a bit down but the sound was so good I thought I was listening to the local oldies FM station but I switched to mono. It sounded very good. Only when the announcer came on did I realize what I had done. I can not wait to get an outside antenna strung. I'll use it as my AM tuner and will switch between it and the MR77 for FM.
A tougher call is the preamp. I really liked what I heard with it and the MC2105 but also really liked the C28 with the Philips power amp. The C28/MC2105, the C28/Philips or the Philips/MC2105 or the Philips/Philips - stay tuned.