This just arrived in my inbox. Interesting that a tekkie publication has all but admitted the defeat of digital by vinyl.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7860_7-6443696-1.html?tag=nl.e404

Great news for the vinyl lovers :yes:, maybe more titles will be made available :scratch2:

:music: Thor will be celebrating when he hears this great news.

ROTFLMAO! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I think vinyl is going to take off in a big way over the next few years – but as a used market experience, given the ambitions of the big media companies. A large part of the boomer generation is entering into a life period in which leisure is really important in its own right and sharing stuff - food, participants sports, home threatre programming (or just TV) and music - we all know is a larger part of the leisure experience than expensive vacations. Basically, they're senior enough to retire, or leave work at 5 pm sometimes (what a concept!) or not work the weekend and go home and fire up some tunes for friends. Now, a large part of this consumer cohort remembered when 1) audio quality and musicianship mattered, 2) didn't have to deal with credit cards to buy music online, 3) crappy expensive players that only they could listen to through the stereo to share with friends without patching chords, etc., 4) crappy overcompressed music and, worst of all, 5) the harassment of Digital Rights Management technologies.

They’ve accepted that the Internet will not go away and they cannot sue it out of existence no matter how many congressmen they buy. Now they look at the Internet as an opportunity to externalize all distribution and lock out the retailers once and for all so that they can realize their righteous destiny – free or cheap content, cost-free or free distribution and total control of content after-sale. This is their imagined end-game: all music will be digital and everyone will pay the media companies for every single play through DRM that will 1) stop consumers from relocating the music, 2) signal the rights-holding media company when you want to play it so that they can bill your credit card and 3) make your music disappear when you break your iPod or whatever if you haven’t observed some kind of bizarrely arcane back-up procedure – and can manage to do it without the DRM stopping you or signaling for an RIAA SWAT team to be sent to your house. (The RIAA tried hard last year to link music piracy to terrorism. That’s right. The argument to be forged and sold to the American public is that anyone not using a DRM-equipped player and stereo equipment is, at the least, an unwitting accomplice to al-Qaeda if not a culpable fellow traveler.)

The media companies are now facing people who would rather buy used records than listen to crappy sounding, troublesome new stuff - interestingly a cohort that 30 years previously made them all very wealthy buying slabs of vinyl from them. Companies like Warner with deep catalogues could clean up on re-issues of back catalogue titles and issue “audiophile” pressings of new stuff, if they would actually sign artists that can play well enough for the playback technology to matter. The danger here is that they’ll infect the younger crowd with an appreciation of quality reproduction, a cohort they really want to condition to endure compressed music that will be (ultimately) reproduced on a pay-for-play basis, a scheme enforced by technology and the threat of prosecution. My sense is that the lawyers will let a few new audiophile pressings loose but they’ll chase the end-to-end, from now-to-forever control scenario toward its most logical extreme.

The question is whether new media companies will pick up and run with vinyl.



This just arrived in my inbox. Interesting that a tekkie publication has all but admitted the defeat of digital by vinyl.
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-7860_7-6443696-1.html?tag=nl.e404

as anyone over the age of 35 who's made the mistake of sticking a pair of quality headphones in an ipod socket will know...you might not notice the compression...but you sure as hell wonder where the quaility went..
the king is dead..long live the king :thmbsp:

I'm a young man, compared to many here, and I get my music one of two ways. I download MP3s to find what I like, then when I find it, I buy it on vinyl. There are a growing number of people in my generation doing this. Electronic music and hiphop have been releasing new music on vinyl for a long time, and are just releasing more all the time.

I have a respect for the tactile sensation of music. I have gagillions of compressed songs on my computer, and I've been listening to them for a good portion of my life. Its hard to be in touch with the music when you can't touch it. Vinyl satisfies that for me, in addition to any sonic benefits.

I'm pleased about the increasing numbers of vinyl releases.

peace,
sam

perhaps its that tactile quality to the sound thats kept analog appreciation alive against all the odds... :scratch2:

I haven't bought a CD in probably 5 years.. To me, it has the disadvantages of analog, without the advantages. Sonically, CD is a great format, I have no problems with it, but when it comes to digital, I can't help but think "Why am I carting around this big ole piece of plastic when I could just serialize the data in flash memory, and get more accurate playback at the same time?" It just doesn't feel worth it. Vinyl, on the other hand... When I think, "Why am I carting around this big ole piece of plastic?" I remember that its because it is a living, breathing thing, for which each playback is another step toward death, and that each time I hear it, it will be different and new, as it evolves toward its sonic end. Digital is 'easy come, easy go', and its hard for me to respect it. I just download it, toss it around, burn it to CDs for the car, delete it when I'm tired of it, etc. Vinyl, on the other hand, is finite, and seems worth taking care of..

All these issues are independent of sonics. I think CD, vinyl, and losslessly compressed music sound very similar on my system, and all very good. There are differences, but they aren't great. Its all the other aspects of vinyl that make it a better format, in my mind.

peace,
sam

Anyone who has any reasonably sized collection of LPs probably has several albums that are long out of print and have never/will never be released on CD. This same argument is also made by fans of other mediums such as laserdisc, however I would imagine with laserdisc it if far less the case (given the lesser amount of time that format was alive). The number of worthwhile obscure/out of print vinyl is quite plentiful and invariably cheaply priced.

Anyone who has any reasonably sized collection of LPs probably has several albums that are long out of print and have never/will never be released on CD. The number of worthwhile obscure/out of print vinyl is quite plentiful and invariably cheaply priced.

Is this really true? I love vinyl, but just when I think I've found some "never released on CD" gem, I see it in the import racks at the Virgin Megastore.

The media companies are now facing people who would rather buy used records than listen to crappy sounding, troublesome new stuff - interestingly a cohort that 30 years previously made them all very wealthy buying slabs of vinyl from them.

That's me, for the last 2 years running....

Yes it is definitely true. For some recordings there would simply not be enough commmercial interest to bother committing it to CD. I'm thinking more in terms of classical music as well as obscure artists that very few people know about.

I don't believe that Nick Mason's solo album Fictitious Sports was ever put on CD.

I believe the Grateful Dead debut album was never on cd either. Forget the name?

I just finished reviving a Yamaha YP-211 with a Audio-Technica AT-110E cartridge for a customer. She was delighted to find that not only were replacement belts and styli still available, but that the vinyl medium was still alive and doing quite well. I made her a list of websites where she could buy vinyl and accessories. She said she had a new HT system, but was going to take her restored Yamaha TT, receiver and speakers and make a dedicated music system with it in her study.

No doubt, there has been some upswing in vinyl production and availability, and that's a very good thing IMO, but it is still very much a niche market, and I can't see that changing, ever. The few big companies responsible for the lion's share of available total production aren't rushing to bring old vinyl production facilities out of mothballs, at least not that I've heard. Digital formats, whatever they are, or will evolve into in the future, rule the mainstream listening world.

No doubt, there has been some upswing in vinyl production and availability

I counted, I have bought 327 albums and 64 CD's in the last year (it's a sickness), nearly a third of the albums were either new or never opened NOS. Average cost 3 bucks a CD, 25 cents a LP.

I was recently thinking along the lines of what PeterFCassidy said,

The RIAA tried hard last year to link music piracy to terrorism.
many of us ought to remember when "the man" was all bent out of shape about home taping. Now it must seem to them like such a huge undertaking on behalf of the consumer that they long for those sweet old days.

another PeterFCassidy quote

make your music disappear when you break your iPod or whatever

I have only downloaded music once, and frankly I'm neither for against such a practice, but what do you do when that computer dies?

I have tried most of it all. MP3, minidisk, CD, 8-track, tape, reel, laserdisk, and in my opinion, vinyl is the best. Ever. I like digital for one reason: I have a Pioneer VSX-3000 hooked directly into my computer, along with a Technics TT, and I have been recording my music on vinyl to MP3. The quality is less, noticiably so, but I did it first with the albums that were only a couple plays away from being framed and hung on the wall. I do the recording for exactly what RulerBoyz said, because vinyl is finite and not all vinyl albums will be made into CD.
But I love it! For the ritual of flipping the album, the cleaning of a side, monitering the stylus, all of it. To me, CD is too disposiable, there is nothing in that format for me to become attached too, but vinyl, wow, everything. :music:

Just my two cents.

I believe the Grateful Dead debut album was never on cd either. Forget the name?

Uhh, it's called "The Grateful Dead" (clever, that) and yes it's available on CD (at least two versions, the original and there should also be a Rhino remaster with bonus tracks).

Now, you may be thinking of the original mix of the second (EDIT: that'd be the third; thanks, Andy!) Dead album -- AOXOMOXOA. That is indeed not available on the silver disc. A vinyl version is well worth seeking out if you're a Dead fan, BTW.

To me, CD is too disposiable, there is nothing in that format for me to become attached too, but vinyl, wow, everything.

If you think that a CD is disposable, then digital music on your computer is even more disposable. Given the way many of us manage the files on our computer, it is kind of like taking your record collection and storing it in the middle of the street (minus the protective covers) in front of your house and watching people drive over them.

I've been reading this thread for the past few days, and I have to agree that though I really enjoy my CD collection, I still enjoy listening to my old LP's and R2R tapes, and I'm only 34

I'm just amazed at the quality of some LP's and recordings on tape that are over 40 years old. I also just like the hands on approach and interactivity with such a physcal medium like vinyl and tape. I feel more connected to the album when playing it on a turntable or R2R deck then some MP3 on a computer or Ipod.

As for MP3's they're great for portabilty in the car, etc, but I don't like the DRM restrictions and would sooner convert what I have to MP3 then buy something that I can't strip the DRM protection out of it. DRM is just horrible if you don't backup files on your computer, you could loose an entire collection from Itunes if your computer crashed. And finally, almost all the MP3's I've downloaded are too compressed for quality sound reproduction, so they get deligated to the Car.

As for Vinyl, can anyone recommend a good site to purchase new music, such as classical, jazz, even rock music? Or maybe a list of current production Vinyl releases.

My only regreat was not purchasing more vinyl albums when I was younger back in the 80's.

- Mike

I'm glad I never invested more than about $10 in musicmatch's DRM files, because I have lost the ability to play all of them.

If you think that a CD is disposable, then digital music on your computer is even more disposable.

Right you are on that one. But I also know that someday, that album of Gershwin playing Rhapsody in Blue back in 1935 will go out sometime. I am not going to stop listening to it though just because I know it is finate, but that makes me appreciate it even more. Plus, with a recoding of it on my computer, I know that it is saved somewhere. Now, if I can just find it.... :headscrat

I have way too many CD's to try to buy on vinyl :yes:

MP3's to me, are way worse then Redbook CD's :yes:

Yes, Vinyl is the best for sound - You need the right gear though!

And, all you people who burn their Redbook CD's to MP3's, love ya, the used bin of CD's has never been bigger - Thanks

A year ago December I bought the Xitel analog to digital recorder so I could transfer my vinyl to CD. Comes with LP recorder and LP ripper software. At least that way I can record what I want for portable enjoyment and still have the abilty to re-record it in case anything happens to the CD. The biggest problem with digital storage is the ability to lose the data, or not able to read the data. If a CD goes bad, I just throw it away and make a new one. And still have the ability to play my records at home. The cost of a blank CD has come way down. And of course, you can't get as many "goodies" in a CD package as you can with records, unless you get the expensive boxed sets.

I agree that the sound of good vinyl can often be superior to Redbook CDs. But, I'm not convinced that it sounds better than really good SACDs played back on a really good SACD player. Some of the really good SACDs can sound truly amazing.

OTOH, MP3s are just complete $#!+.

like phono carts have zero forms of distortion - yea right


sell me another brooklyn bridge

I dunno how far vinyl production facilities have advanced since 1975, say, but if it's anything close to CD production, it might be accessible to a large number of new producers, essentially new media companies chasing niches that they have embraced. Outfits like Ryko just came out of nowhere and attained large-catalogues quickly, I think, in part because gaining a fast, malleable production facility was non-onerous. Naxos just exploded onto the scene I think because CD development and manufacture was relatively easy and accessible. If vinyl really develops a cult following that threatens to become more mainstream, you might well see vinyl-pressing "Rykos" and "Naxoses" coming online. That is if vinyl production has become as quick and easy as CD production. Check it out. If that is the case, what would prevent the Chicago Symphony from putting out its own virgin pressings of all the Mahler and Bruckner symponies and selling them from its website? Actually, there is probably a business model to be exploited in becoming a developer of audiophile private-label recordings for big symphony orchestras. Totally turn-key. The contractor comes in, takes care of all the engineering, production, manufacturing and packaging and, if the CSO wants, they'll have a system for putting a Web page inside the symphony's site for people to browse and buy the symphony's records, then take their orders, package and deliver them to customers and forward the proceeds (minus a 15% commission) to the CSO's foundation.


No doubt, there has been some upswing in vinyl production and availability, and that's a very good thing IMO, but it is still very much a niche market, and I can't see that changing, ever. The few big companies responsible for the lion's share of available total production aren't rushing to bring old vinyl production facilities out of mothballs, at least not that I've heard. Digital formats, whatever they are, or will evolve into in the future, rule the mainstream listening world.

Uhh, it's called "The Grateful Dead" (clever, that) and yes it's available on CD (at least two versions, the original and there should also be a Rhino remaster with bonus tracks).

Now, you may be thinking of the original mix of the second Dead album -- AOXOMOXOA. That is indeed not available on the silver disc. A vinyl version is well worth seeking out if you're a Dead fan, BTW.

Sorry, Mark, that's not quite true because I have one and it's on WB.

In fact, AOXOMOXA is the third LP, "Anthem of the Sun" was #2 and my google search shows it too was a 2003 release on CD. Actually, with all the Dick's Picks, Jerry Garcia Band, and Bob Weir/Mickey Hart/Phil Lesh stuff, I can't beleive that there is any Dead not available on CD. Well, maybe not those old Sunflower (?) releases, like the one with the Ripple bottle on the cover.

like phono carts have zero forms of distortion - yea right


sell me another brooklyn bridge


Like CD players have zero forms of distortion - yea right

I'll sell you another CD player.

Shoot Andy, of course you're right... I was having a flashback, of course... I shall go back and correct my errant text.

Of course, there were two different mixes of "Anthem", too -- one had the white cover and the other the purple one. I do not know if the earlier "Anthem" mix is available on CD.

Nope, the original AOXOMOXOA mix is not available as a CD -- I believe the master tapes are gone. I have a green W7 label I bought from eBAY and it sounds fantastic -- much better than my mid-1970's pressing of the remix. The Rhino CD sounds very good.

Extra bonus Deadhead trivia comment: the working title for AOXOMOXOA was "Earthquake Country". Having lived in the Bay area for a while, I think that'd have been an extremely apt album title.

I know that no format is perfect

I know that no format is perfect


That's absolutely right, nothing made by man is perfect. Nor does it need to be to be capable of moving your emotions. Is your wife "perfect"? Is your house "perfect"?

Course not, but that doesn't detract from how you feel about them. And with music, how you feel about it has a large part about how much you enjoy it.

Back in the days of the CD revolution, I kept reading about how there were a few oddballs determined to hold onto their turntable and LP's largely because they claimed the sound was better than CD. Secretly, I suspected at least part of the reason LP's refused to die was due to their very mechanical, able to see it and touch it nature. And I have never seen a CD player whose physical beauty was as impressive as most any average turntable with it's arm ready to set down on an album. I was sure this was part of the appeal of LP's no matter whether anyone admitted it or not. It was part of why I hung onto my turntable and albums even when I couldn't get new ones anymore.

Then I went all CD for many years.

When I got my turntable out of storage and played my first LP after so long..I knew that the tactile appeal could not be denied. Nor the sound..as imperfect and full of pops ticks and clicks as it was..what was left still put my high price CD player to shame.

Both have their merits. Digital is great for ease and convenience. But vinyl..and analog tapes made from vinyl, are truly music.

Both have their merits. Digital is great for ease and convenience. But vinyl..and analog tapes made from vinyl, are truly music.

You got it. With records, I feel the music.

Both have their merits. Digital is great for ease and convenience. But vinyl..and analog tapes made from vinyl, are truly music.

Well said!