View Full Version : Totem Beaks - Anyone tried them?
Bigerik 03-11-2006, 10:11 PM I remember seeing these things a few years back in a Totem ad and not having a lot of belief in what they were selling. Then again, I didn't believe that interconnects really sounded that different either. Totem says:
" Tuning pods that control resonances and allow for better driver integration.
Results in imaging and dynamic improvement."
Has anyone actually tried them? Any experiences to share?
http://www.totemacoustic.com/english/products/access_beak.htm
opt80 03-12-2006, 12:20 PM I checked into them 4 or 5 years ago.They were $90CDN and you had to beg the Totem people to sell them
Alan
Nice sig line Erik
i tried these with a well known audio reviewer (former reviewer for 6moons, stereotimes, and sales person for Sound by Singer). he swore he could tell a difference. we were at his house and on his main system, i blind tested him about 10X, not once could he tell me if they were on the speaker or not. he was disappointed afterward. by the way, we were using totem hawks, unicio unison, and audio note trans and dac.
ProAc_Fan 03-12-2006, 06:35 PM I'll just say that they do work but I find them rather ugly.
Mike
sump pump 03-12-2006, 07:37 PM A friend of mine has the Totem Hawks w/the beaks (Hooked up to Red Rose Tube Integrated amp). I asked him about them, he said he could tell no difference, and they (salesperson) threw them in the deal when he purchased the speakers. He had tried them on/off, and just left them on, more for conversations sake, so I really :dunno:. I will tell you the speakers sounded absolutely amazing in general and I was really impressed with them :yes:
Mark W. 03-12-2006, 08:26 PM I don't see how they could work any different then say $2.00 a piece target arrow points or Plumb bobs or any other pointy piece of metal.
Bigerik 03-13-2006, 12:35 AM I don't see how they could work any different then say $2.00 a piece target arrow points or Plumb bobs or any other pointy piece of metal.
And thats what we are here to find out....
thedelihaus 03-13-2006, 05:23 AM Here's an interesting homemade spike kit for components I recently read- for gear, not for speakers, but nonetheless pretty neat, made from bullets, silicone, and BBs-
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/bulletspikes_e.html
Here's a homebrew stone block isolation pad article too-
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/sblocks1e.html
And here's a good read on both home-made isolation devices and those premade and sold to the hifi market, both testing and comparing everything from $$$ devices to sliced raquetballs-
http://www.audiotweaks.com/reviews.htm
thedelihaus 03-13-2006, 05:33 AM Oh, and I'm not joking, but I'm considering ordering some punk-rock spikes to play around with.
http://www.studsandspikes.com/
Here's a bag of screw-fastening spikes from the above website for a whopping $5.39 for 20 pieces.
http://www.studsandspikes.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=468&osCsid=d10760f2a8e6de6e8639c02b6f68fb1b
That's enough to make enough isolators for 6 pieces of gear at 3 spikes each, or 5 pieces using 4 spikes each.
I'm getting confused as this thread progresses. I thought Totem beaks sat on top of the speakers at different corners and that they are not floor spikes, which Totems also use. I think Totem calls them Claws.
If you look at the photo gallery on the Totem site, you can see beaks on top of the speakers in a few of the photos.
Please help confused old me.....
Billfort 03-13-2006, 10:47 AM Yes, the Totem 'beaks' are cone shaped things that simply sit on top of speakers, not floor spikes or coupling/decoupling feet.
Mark W. 03-13-2006, 02:43 PM If they sit on top of the speakers what possible use could they have. I must be dense here I thought they were at least some silly form of anchor spikes. But to sit on top of your speakers and do what? Add weight how about a couple rolls of Nickles would they work for this magical what ever.
Sorry just can even grasp a clue
Mark W. 03-13-2006, 02:50 PM OK I'm out of here this is just to weird for me. Makes me think of some late 1800's snake oil sales man.
Charivari 03-13-2006, 02:58 PM If they sit on top of the speakers what possible use could they have. I must be dense here I thought they were at least some silly form of anchor spikes. But to sit on top of your speakers and do what? Add weight how about a couple rolls of Nickles would they work for this magical what ever.
Sorry just can even grasp a clue
Interestingly enough, compared to a lot of snake oil out there, there is some physical sense behind these. The idea of panel resonances is that there are certain nodes, position and strength depending upon panel shape, material, and thickness, where the vibration is strongest. The principle of having a parasitic element that draws out these vibrations and breaks down the wavefront via a conical/tear-drop derived shape does work to a degree. I recall reading an article a few years back published in Science (iirc) that involved building extremely strong sonic wavefronts within a teardrop shaped vessel and disrupting them by moving the front towards the conical end. There was some really interesting science behind that, but my brain isn't working too well at the moment.
At any rate, any suitably conductive (sonically) material in a roughly conical shape, preferably with an increasing taper like a pointed bullet, should break down the resonances if there is sufficient coupling with the surface. However, this effect is likely so small considering the resonances found in the panels of a well-made speaker as to likely be unhearable. Suitable coupling is also a question as the object would have to be practically a piece of the panel and like material for it to work, near as I can tell. To be honest, better results would likely to be had by just thickening the panel and/or adding mass such as lead sheeting firmly secured to the inside (no flexible glue, want firm, very firm contact).
Still, I would like to see a comparison done between Totem Beaks and brass plumb bobs with a listener who can honestly hear whether they're on or off the cab.
- JP
Bigerik 03-13-2006, 03:34 PM OK I'm out of here this is just to weird for me. Makes me think of some late 1800's snake oil sales man.
No snake oil here. We are here to discuss and to learn. If it doesn't interest ya, there are lots of other forums for you to enjoy.
GaryP 03-13-2006, 05:48 PM Some of this stuff really sounds amazing once you hear of it. For example, I never thought isolation devices would make a difference. I thought what's wrong with normal "feet" that come with the component? Then I tried superballs for isolation and I could not believe my ears. I was shocked....
Totem Beaks? Who knows - try them and let's find out! :)
thedelihaus 03-14-2006, 07:53 AM Sorry guys if I almost derailed the post earlier. I went to the site and though I looked at the Totem Beaks, I didn't fully understand what they were- I assumed spikes right away. I moved my homebrew spike idea to a different thread.
Interesting thread however. It's been an enjoyable read.
Mark W. 03-14-2006, 11:47 AM No snake oil here. We are here to discuss and to learn. If it doesn't interest ya, there are lots of other forums for you to enjoy.
Bigerik I understand your above statement I take it you didn't understand mine. In the process of reading about and looking at these things I could imagine no way they could improve the sound of a speaker or component. And the resulting sense I got was that of a snake Oil salesman that would offer great results with no basis for those results relying on the sale pitch to push the buyer into a sale.
Once the sale was made in oreder to not seam the fool the buyer would step up and back the claims again with no basis for the "cure"
Now I'll go into the living room and place a .45 cal conical shaped bullet on top of my speakers and carefully listen to see if there is a differance. I will also do this while my system is pumping out Pink Noise and see if anything changes on my Spectrum Analyzer.
Don't hld your breath.
Remember for an open discussion all points of view need to be included including that of someone who disbelieves.
I'll be glad to play that part.
Bigerik 03-14-2006, 12:53 PM Bigerik I understand your above statement I take it you didn't understand mine. In the process of reading about and looking at these things I could imagine no way they could improve the sound of a speaker or component. And the resulting sense I got was that of a snake Oil salesman that would offer great results with no basis for those results relying on the sale pitch to push the buyer into a sale.
Once the sale was made in oreder to not seam the fool the buyer would step up and back the claims again with no basis for the "cure"
Now I'll go into the living room and place a .45 cal conical shaped bullet on top of my speakers and carefully listen to see if there is a differance. I will also do this while my system is pumping out Pink Noise and see if anything changes on my Spectrum Analyzer.
Don't hld your breath.
Remember for an open discussion all points of view need to be included including that of someone who disbelieves.
I'll be glad to play that part.
Hi Mark
If you check my original post, I asked for comments from people who have tried them, not from people who don't belive in them. It is very easy to say that they don't work because you don't believe they will. I don't exactly understand how they work either, which is why I was asking for comments from people who have tried them. If you want to try them out and post your opinions, as to what they did or did not do, you are most welcome to do that. So far your comments have added nothing to the conversation except that you don't believe in them. Ok, we all get that.
The point of this forum is to go beyond that. What we are trying to do is put togther a discussion area for people to try out new equipment that is not of the usual source/amp/speakers type. We wanna look at all those little details that can be used to fine tune a system. So far, for a new forum we have gotten some pretty great information on equipment that is perhaps outside the range of experience of a lot of AK members. This body of knowledge will expand greatly once we start getting feedback from our cable test program. We will be able to really get how well cables work in certain peoples systems, or if they don't. Maybe in the future we can get some cones, speaks or even beaks into the program.
We don't want to start "religous" debates about types of equipment and whether or not we believe in them. Consider this more of a review forum then a philosophy forum. In that, please feel free to ask questions from posters about their experiences. Please feel free to ask for feedback on a certain piece of equipment. But just coming in and equating something to snake oil because you don't believe in it is just trolling.
Thanks
Erik
Retro Stereo 03-14-2006, 01:47 PM Bigerik I understand your above statement I take it you didn't understand mine. In the process of reading about and looking at these things I could imagine no way they could improve the sound of a speaker or component. And the resulting sense I got was that of a snake Oil salesman that would offer great results with no basis for those results relying on the sale pitch to push the buyer into a sale.
Once the sale was made in oreder to not seam the fool the buyer would step up and back the claims again with no basis for the "cure"
Now I'll go into the living room and place a .45 cal conical shaped bullet on top of my speakers and carefully listen to see if there is a differance. I will also do this while my system is pumping out Pink Noise and see if anything changes on my Spectrum Analyzer.
Don't hld your breath.
Remember for an open discussion all points of view need to be included including that of someone who disbelieves.
I'll be glad to play that part.
Mark,
Just remember, to play the role of non-believer here, you would have had to have tried it yourself first. If you haven't tried it, and have no intention of trying it, that would be a good time to say to yourself, "to each their own" and move on. Just my $.02
Retro
Morden2004 03-14-2006, 03:18 PM Interesting. On first glance my thought was 'and yet another useless item to entice the audiophile .. " but I can see that there is the possibility of a logical explanation as to how it may alter the sound waves depending upon where it is placed in the sound field.
The cone is a special shape that has unusual properties when excited. It has an almost infinite frequency response due to the different cross sections of the cone. They didn't decide upon the conical shape for speakers by accident :no: . It is an efficient shape for transmitting audio sounds over a broad frequency spectrum. A dome is another shape with special properties and is used in transducers as well.
What I'd be interested in hearing is a fair audition of them under some sort of controlled conditions; using an audio generator and an SPL meter plot the gain or loss with and without these devices.
Food for thought.
Paul
GaryP 03-14-2006, 05:03 PM Has anyone ever noticed speaker tweeters with "built in" cones on them? Something a little different from the usual round dome or ribbon tweeter.
I wonder if this is has the same effect or is based on the same theory as beaks?
Hmmmm..... more food for thought.
(I think we're going to see a lot of "Hmmmm"'s here... :D)
Has anyone ever noticed speaker tweeters with "built in" cones on them? Something a little different from the usual round dome or ribbon tweeter.
I wonder if this is has the same effect or is based on the same theory as beaks?
Hmmmm..... more food for thought.
(I think we're going to see a lot of "Hmmmm"'s here... :D)
You more than likely saw "phase plugs" commonly used in horn lens and on some dual-concentric tweeters.
tentoze 03-14-2006, 05:45 PM You more than likely saw "phase plugs" commonly used in horn lens and on some dual-concentric tweeters.
Sounds like he's talking more like the ones in Polk LsiX series speaks, but I may be misunderstanding:
dnewma04 03-14-2006, 05:51 PM Sounds like he's talking more like the ones in Polk LsiX series speaks, but I may be misunderstanding:
In either case, they play a similar role.
dnewma04 03-14-2006, 06:08 PM In the case of the beaks, are these the products that just sit on top of the speaker that totem started pushing 5 years or more ago? Which resulted in "dramatic improvement in imaging and dynamics"? Or are they one of their "high-end" spikes?
In the case of the first, playing around with a DIY copy of them resulted in no measureable or identifiable difference in sound. This experiment was done purely for fun based on a long winded chain of emails from the basslist. I believe a few others did some tests and got similar results.
Erik, I think you will find that there is no measureable for this type of product and it can't fit in anywhere but based 100% on faith. Think of it this way, rooms are filled with much larger objects that will have dramatic effects on response, why spend money on, or better yet believe in, a product that no proveable audible or measureable effect?
***All of these findings were for the dildo shaped product that sits on top of the speaker, if the beaks are not this product strike my response from consideration. Also, there would probably be test equipment sensitive enough to measure a difference as negligible as this would provide.
Here is something everyone should try for fun. Take an end table and move it 4 inches in another directions and revel in the dramatic differences in sound. This would have an effect on teh sound orders of magnitude more significant than a metal dildo resting on the top.
newoldguy 03-14-2006, 07:10 PM Well I must say I just learned something.I have seen these things around and thought that they were phase plugs,or spikes for under the speakers.Now I see they sit atop the speaker to deal with resonance issues.Interesting.
Erik,sorry but I can offer no opinion,but will read intently to find out more.
Regards
Mike
Mark W. 03-14-2006, 08:34 PM OK I tried placing a .45 cal bullet of similar shape (though I would imagine of a higher mass) on top of my SP-3500's I tried one I tried 2 I tried 3 I tried different corners in the middle grouped together spread apart. I had my wife move them remove and replace them all while I listened from the sweet spot in our living room. And with my eyes closed I could hear NOTHING to lead me to believe that they were changing what I heard.
I went to the web site for these and can't find a price or even a way short of a direct email to buy them. So I guess my chances of trying them out is slim if any . And if they cost anywhere near the 90.00 CDN quoted by one of the other guys. Since I know these can be made on a CNC lathe from a nickles worth of aluminum in about 15 seconds I doubt I will be sending anyone an email to buy something I can make at home for pennies
So if one of you guys happen to have some send me the measurements diameter and height should be all I need the conical will be an easy guess based on the photo's. I'll whip up a hand full for a buck and try them out.
NOW if this is out of line I'm sorry. I just put in my two cents worth and did mean to get in the way of any sales.
luvvinvinyl 03-14-2006, 08:53 PM Mark, you misunderstand. This forum is called "Thinking Out Loud".
It's not about sales, it's about speaking from experience, about something you have tried, or keeping an open mind about something you haven't tried.
If someone asks if anyone has experience with an "Acme Brand" power cord, I'm sure that you can see there is little value in hijacking the thread by relating my experience with my DIY cord.
Ever see an Eichmann 'Topper (http://www.eichmanncables.com/topper/index.html)'? You set it on top of the transformers of a tube amp. I was at my local dealer's shop, and he had a new 300B stereo power amp, that had a hum. Went to the shelf, and pulled down three of these 'funny-looking' devices. Nothing more involved than a brachiated extrusion of some dense material. He set them on top of the transformers, and, lo and behold, hum was GONE! I don't know how they work, or why they work, but they worked, on that piece. If you look at them, 'common sense' seems to tell you, "NFW will these things work, they just sit there", but they worked.
So, long and short of it, this forum is NOT looking for someone to holler 'BS', if they haven't actually tried the Beaks, or whatever tweak is being discussed. Period.
If that doesn't sit well with you, please explore the many other forums that AK offers.
Sounds like he's talking more like the ones in Polk LsiX series speaks, but I may be misunderstanding:
The Polk tweeter is like the Vifa dual-concentric driver. I've used them many times in speaker projects. They're one of my faves.
dnewma04 03-14-2006, 09:00 PM Maybe it should be "thinking out loud*"
What is the value of a thinking out loud forum if only one side of the discussion is encouraged? Also, if someone comes on here and says "I put this on my speaker and now it sounds dramatically better", how does that provide any value to anyone? Recommendations without any technical substance is about as valuable as an "I don't know" answer in a poll.
Speaking of the topper, "Position 3 eXpress Topper™s - parallel and slightly apart on the top of a speaker, close to the front baffle (logo facing out). " I love the logo facing out part, comic gold there.
dnewma04 03-14-2006, 09:21 PM If they sit on top of the speakers what possible use could they have. I must be dense here I thought they were at least some silly form of anchor spikes. But to sit on top of your speakers and do what? Add weight how about a couple rolls of Nickles would they work for this magical what ever.
Sorry just can even grasp a clue
Mark,
In all seriousness, their claim is that high freq congregate on top of a speaker and throw off the coherency of high freq of speakers. By adding their piece of metal, these freq are allowed to dissipate by reflecting off of that. Obviously, these claims are backed with 0 data, which makes their claims an unsubstantiated description of unverified and unproveable results. I call it a creative use of scrap from the mfg of their speaker spikes and I applaud their efforts.
Inspiribomb 03-14-2006, 09:28 PM I'd be interested in seeing the results of several double-blind tests, in which the listener must decide which sounds better, or if there is even a discernable difference. My GUESS is that most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but who knows, that is the point of such a test.
Uncle Paul 03-14-2006, 09:34 PM I'd be interested in seeing the results of several double-blind tests, in which the listener must decide which sounds better, or if there is even a discernable difference. My GUESS is that most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference, but who knows, that is the point of such a test.
Double blind tests are only useful if you actually want to know. It kills the joy of endless speculation.
Mark W. 03-14-2006, 09:51 PM OK sorry for getting in the way.
Bigerik 03-14-2006, 10:02 PM Ok guys, lets bring this back to the discussion in hand. The question was:
"Has anyone actually tried them? Any experiences to share?"
dnewma04 03-14-2006, 10:48 PM I have. I posted my experiences and general concensus of those who did measurements and even tried to explain Totem's "explanation" of how they work for those who want more than "they work!".
grumpy 03-14-2006, 10:50 PM I have. I posted my experiences and general concensus of those who did measurements and even tried to explain Totem's "explanation" of how they work for those who want more than "they work!".
Maybe he was asking for others.
dnewma04 03-14-2006, 10:54 PM I suppose that conclusion could be made.
grumpy 03-14-2006, 11:02 PM Well I guess you told us didnt you ...
onwardjames 03-14-2006, 11:07 PM Ok, I'm all for discussing and learning, but it seems every time someone cries bullshit, everyone cries foul. With that said, the Totems make some type of sense. Ever take an acoustic guitar and place the headstock against a wall?? Get MUCH louder, eh??
Hey, peace and love, but sometimes I feel like some of these products are indeed hifi snake oil. As for me, I STILL cannot understand why the resonance of a cdp case should make those zeros and ones SOUND better. I did the isolation thing on one of my cdp's and could not hear a bit o' difference. Yes, we are here to discuss and learn, but also perhaps keep our sonic brethren from spending their hard-earned bread on crap. :yes:
Now, I'm about to investigate this sonic quandry. Think I'll place my Martin on top of the Infinity's. :lmao:
dnewma04 03-14-2006, 11:16 PM Ok, I'm all for discussing and learning, but it seems every time someone cries bullshit, everyone cries foul. With that said, the Totems make some type of sense. Ever take an acoustic guitar and place the headstock against a wall?? Get MUCH louder, eh??
No experience with your example, but I bet someone could easily explain the phenomena and provide measurements, so I don't think thats a good example.
Hey, peace and love, but sometimes I feel like some of these products are indeed hifi snake oil. As for me, I STILL cannot understand why the resonance of a cdp case should make those zeros and ones SOUND better. I did the isolation thing on one of my cdp's and could not hear a bit o' difference. Yes, we are here to discuss and learn, but also perhaps keep our sonic brethren from spending their hard-earned bread on crap. :yes:
My goal on every audio forum I frequent is to try to get people to look at things objectively and I agree with your assessments. maybe another forum should be created called "The Real Deal" where only objective data and measurements of products should be posted and sonic superiority claims can only be supported with facts. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, just an equal and opposite forum to complement this one.
grumpy 03-14-2006, 11:20 PM No there is no problem with calling Bullshit but when someone cries it is everyone supposed to take their word as the Gospel ?
Hell No !
I draw my own conclusions using my own ears on my own system and what ever opinion I have of a product is mine and mine alone. I do not try to deter others from being opened minded as some have tried to do since this forum started.
This forum is about being open minded. Its not about blindly jumping off a cliff.
If people insist upon posting on a product that has never been closer then a state away from them then they will loose the privilege to post to here.
Its all about respect.
FoolForARadio 03-15-2006, 06:29 AM In the attachment is a picture of a Totem Staaf speaker and on it is a real beak belonging to a turtle carved by Elvin King, from Sewanee TN (dead now.) The other speaker has a beaver atop it. I can't tell if they help the sound but it's a nice place to keep the carvings. I point them at the TV if the Tarheels really need help, but they couldn't fend off Boston College!
Dflip 03-16-2006, 11:17 PM I may be in the minority, but I have two pairs of beaks, one for each diagonal corner of my Cornwalls. I find that where I place them does have an effect on what I hear. Closer to the front increases the soundstage (upper mids) and closer to the side increases the bass response. The fact that the speakers are 25" wide and 15" deep may also factor into a difference in sound. I can tell when they fall off because of too much bass and not level enough on one speaker because the sound is harsher. They work for me and have for the past three years.
I auditioned them for half an hour on a pair of Totem Signature Model 1 which were biwired, ASL Hurricane amps and a Rega Jupiter CD player and could notice a difference when they were applied and then moved slightly around the speaker. The owner of the store let me play with them for the whole half hour without anyone else in the room.
Do they work? Yes, but the degree of the change may be up to the individual. They do make a change, especially when I do not have tone controls. That is actually how I use them depending on what I am listening to and the quality of the recordings.
luvvinvinyl 03-16-2006, 11:24 PM Dflip, thanks for posting that info. My local guy has Totems, and Beaks on the shelf, but I have never heard them, in use. Just what I need, another reason to go in and kill a couple of hours. Like I need an excuse. Just ask my wife.
Anyway, thanks for the informative post.
Bigerik 03-16-2006, 11:43 PM Great post, Dflip!
You'll have to bring them along to the next Toronto meet. We can all have a listen then!
Bluesbassplayer 12-09-2006, 07:11 AM I just tested out a pair of totem hawks last night. The gentleman with the spectrum analyzer needs to fire it up. Should be able to pick this one up, please read below.
The beaks were set up on top of speakers toward the left front of the left speaker and on the right front of the right speaker (pretty close to directly above where the magnet would be on the tweeter but set off to the side). Basically the edge of the "beaks" were located about an inch from each side of the corner of the speaker. When I saw the beaks on top of the speakers, I smiled and thought for sure this was going to be some serious bravo sierra!
I then did some critical listening. The CD I used was Marcus Miller's "The sun don't lie". I was playing "teen town". As a side - those totem hawks are really nice with or without "beaks" (I shouldn't have listened, my Spica TC-50is now seem to need an upgrade!). Along with Mr. Miller's famous bass work, this track has a lot of well performed and recorded snare and cymbal work along with bass clarinet, congas, steel drum, etc.
I went back and forth with beaks and without. The difference was not really subtle. The beaks didn't lie on that particular track on "The sun don't lie"! It was obvious there. The detail of the cymbals and snare really opened up, so you could hear that nice work better. Frankly this percussion work is so busy and reverberating that it really muddies up that area of this recording on most speakers. The attack and reverb on the cymbals and snare really clashes and tends to get a little washed out on most speakers. The way I would describe it is like going from one level of speaker to the next grade up, there was more room for you to hear the subtle nuances of that percussion work. I also played some Joe Henderson and the difference was so slight there that I really would have probably assumed those "beaks" were BS. On the Marcus Miller recording and track I mentioned, very obvious. Some might even say that the high end was brightened --- I wouldn't say that myself. It just kept the cymbal and snare reverberations from cancelling each other out and thus losing the detail.
How does this work? I don't know. Could it be an interaction on the magnetic field with the tweeter? The challenge there is that this is aluminum and not a magentic material, BUT the magentic field off of the tweeter is MOVING so there would be some interaction between it and this piece of aluminum in its field (an electric field would be created and this could interact with the magnetic field from the tweeter).
I would love for someone else to try this and report back. Will only cost you time at the dealer and buying a good cd! Please report back. In regards to several people calling this snake oil, I now have to disagree. I was trying to be open minded on this test but nonetheless was expecting this to be really subtle to non exisitence --- it wasn't subtle under the conditions above. Very obvious - give it a try. After researching a little on the internet, seems that moving the location of these "beaks" greatly affects this effect. I would guess at this point that this is a magnetic/electric field interaction between the moving magnetic field from the tweeter and this conducting metal placed in the field.
Bigerik 12-09-2006, 09:45 AM Awesome first post.
Really am gonna have to take a listen to these.
Thanks much for sharing that with us!
Billfort 12-09-2006, 10:12 AM Welcome to AK Blues and thanks for the interesting post. It's always nice to read the thoughts and experience of someone who has actually listened to things like this while keeping an open mind.
Besides the Totems, what was the rest of the system and what was the room like?
I didn't get a chance to read all the post on this thread but I used a pair of totem beaks when I was auditioning a pair of Totem speakers at home and kept them for my Dynaudio speakers that I ultimately purchased. What is interesting, is that if you slowly move the totem beaks around the top of the speaker while the music is playing at a healthy level you will often find spots where you can actually feel the beak starting to vibrate in your hand. You have to hold it towards the bottom to feel it. Where you feel the vibration is probably where they do the most good. The theory is that the cavity built into the device will resonate with certain frequencies and convert mechanical energy into heat thus absorbing the vibration. I thought they did help with the Totem speakers, were questionable with Dynaudio and I hear no difference at all with Sonus Fabers I own now. I guess much will depend on how well damped the speaker cabinet is to begin with.
Bluesbassplayer 12-10-2006, 06:15 AM Billfort,
The associated equipment was:
Music Hall CD25.2 CD player
Opera-Consonance Consonance T1 tube preamplifier
Opera-Consonance M500S monoblock tube power amplifiers
Totem Hawks
Totem Beaks
Also I listed to the following in the same room:
Thule Spirit DVA100 CD player
Kora Explorer 150CSC Integrated amp hybrid tube
Von Scheikert VR-1
It was a lot of fun. Both systems were great. It was in a medium size room with very high ceiling (maybe about 14') in an old main street type of store. I preferred the first system to the second. Thanks for welcoming me. This is a great forum!
Bigerik 12-10-2006, 11:05 AM Billfort,
The associated equipment was:
Music Hall CD25.2 CD player
Opera-Consonance Consonance T1 tube preamplifier
Opera-Consonance M500S monoblock tube power amplifiers
Totem Hawks
Totem Beaks
Also I listed to the following in the same room:
Thule Spirit DVA100 CD player
Kora Explorer 150CSC Integrated amp hybrid tube
Von Scheikert VR-1
It was a lot of fun. Both systems were great. It was in a medium size room with very high ceiling (maybe about 14') in an old main street type of store. I preferred the first system to the second. Thanks for welcoming me. This is a great forum!
Some nice equipment there!Plenty revealing, i am sure.
Thinking Out Loud is the safe haven for anyone who wants to discuss any tweaks in an environment that in which they don't have to fear being mocked or attacked. If you have tried some tweaks and want to comment on what you have heard, or you have questions about any tweak, please post away. Your contributions are most welcome!
onwardjames 12-12-2006, 03:41 PM I recently took 4 common kiln-fired bricks, placed some earplugs beneath them to prevent scratches due to vibration, and placed two upon each of my Insignias. REALLY tightened up the bass, and I didn't even have to go "out of state" to get them.
Not as photogenic as the turtle a few posts back, or as creative as the antique wooden boxes with acorns and nuts from another post, but VERY effective.
GaryP 12-12-2006, 04:25 PM I guess that's vibration control, right?
onwardjames 12-12-2006, 05:48 PM This is AFTER I opened them up and used a pound of putty to dampen vibration. Just got better.
Tried a bunch of Panera bread straws....lost too much bottom end, but did define things a bit...
surething 12-15-2006, 06:33 PM While the Totem beaks is not new to me, (seems Ive known about them for 10 years), I can't say I have tried them. Probably because they were never that widely available. I have however, tried plenty of other devices on or under speakers and equip. I just wanted to mention that you can get a similar effect for about 20 cents. (Using 4 nickels...). I'm sure it's not the same effect, I'm sure it's not as good. But I'm also sure it works in a similar way. In fact, you set up the coins as you do the beaks, two per spkr, diagonally, near each corner (not in the corner but spread out from it).
The heavier the coin, the more exagerrated the effect. I found the coins (whether a dime, a nickel, quarter, etc) could affect the perception of highs, mids, lows, soundstaging, musicality, etc. When I found a location I liked, I blue-tacked them to the speaker. In the end, I believe I removed them. I religiously believe in maintaining the integrity of the sound above all, and that these things can add a colouration I don't care for. YMMV.
Bluesbassplayer 12-20-2006, 07:12 PM I wish we were able to do a study on this. If you can truly hear the difference, you know you could measure it. As I stated above the difference on the totem hawks was very noticeable on cymbals in particular. It was like going from a closet to a very open room without there being that reverb effect of being in a bigger room. Every time the cymbal was attacked, I heard the start of it and the decay, really cleanly, even after the next attack happened. That's what I mean about it seeming like a bigger room. If you were in a small room, you would get a lot more of the cymbal attacks cancelling out what had already been attacked. It was just more true to what you hear live. For me it was like the speakers had been upgraded to the next model line up --- pretty dramatic. There has to be a lot of profit in those beaks, but upgading to the next model up for $100 is a bargain. Still would love to understand more about how that works.
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