Brian
05-11-2003, 09:12 AM
Well, after playing around quite a bit, the Philips preamp is not as bad as I thought it was. Unlike McIntosh where the amp gain controls do best fully opened and still require sufficient voltage to keep the preamp in the optimum curve of the output voltage, the Philips combo does better with the amp gain controls turned down and the preamp pushing higher voltage. The inputs and outputs must be buffered to minimize impedance mismatching.
The preamp inputs don't overload with 2 volts which is the max out of the Philips tuner throught the variable outputs. I used about 1 volt for listening.
I settled on testing with the Smaller Advents which do well in my room as it is. I decided not to use the Klipsch since the speakers are too efficient and I couldn't get the settings where I wanted.
I have been moving the Advents using a Sony STR6045 receiver and they are positions about 3' from any wall and about 18" off the floor to get the tweeters closer to listening position. As is, with the Sony, the sound stage is almost wall to wall and starts in front of the speakers and goes quite deep. The height is from the floor to almost the ceiling (7') but, not too tall with solo instruments. As setup, the Sony/Advent makes for a really nice classical listening system though a better antenna would help I think to reduce the Fm noise base. With the Philips, the bottom to top soundstage stayed while the side to side is now done to the outside of the speakers and the front edge moved back to the fron tof the speakers. Driving the tuner directly into the power amp increased these but, still less than with the Sony. I've tried moving the speakers a bit but there was no position that increased the soundstage.
Soundstage is only 1 thing I look for with, another being instrument placement. Here the Sony took the back seat. With the Philips, you almost felt you could put a marker where each instrument was. Subbing the C28, the soundstage increased but, not to the dimensions of the Sony and instrument placement was not as well defined.
The Philips does not have the authority of the C28. It does have greater detail while resolution in some ways is better and some ways not as good. The C28 delivers the tones from the soundbox of stringed instruments better while picking out what is being used on a cymbal goes to the Philips.
Kettles and cello has more of the attack recognized by the Philips while the C28 conveys more of the tonality. The C28 meanwhile picks up the attack on a triangle better as well as the tonality. Male vocals on either are very close. The is more sibilence with female vocal on the Philips but the voice is - well a bit more feminine.
The C28 gives me the feel that I'm say in the BSO listening while the Philips seems to put me on the banks of the Charles river listeing to the same thing. Lees hall effect, more open and airy.
The phono preamp was turned down to about 2mv and it helped focus and did not have the confused sound which it had been exhibiting. This is the opposite of what I had thought should happen but after rading the manual and realizing the preamp has four (4) independent phono preamps - yes each phono input has a separate preamp so you can run 2 radically different cartridges without having to play the gain reset game as with most preamps. You could even mod 1 for a diferent optimal load if you wanted. The result here was consistent with my other observations.
The Philips requires a bit more time to set up in the system to get the best out of it as I found out. But, once dialed in is better than I initally thought. I suspect the reveiwers back in 1978 of the preamp got so involved with the lights and switches they did not set it up and the resulting reveiw was as close to a neutral comment as I'd read. They spend too much time on the lights and switches and maybe 25% of the space on the sound qualities. If Philips had devoted a bit more to the sonics, the preamp could have been a contender for the very top few positions.
The Philips system as a whole, is very good to excellent. The total presentation is different from a McIntosh and for those who don't find the McIntosh experience to be enthralling should really enjoy the Philips. Even as a McIntosh lover, I find the system, now that it is dialed in better even more impressive. It will become my #2 system moving the tube systems down the line by 1 notch.
For those looking for a budget (I'd estimate the amp/preamp/tuner to reasonably go for aboout $1,000 though, a few total systems have been picked up just prior to the FM shootout for something like $400) high power high quality system, the Philips is a must try. That's about half the going price (and 2X the power @ 8ohms) of my McIntosh. If either AM or FM is important, then the tuner, esecially should be on your short list.
As a side, I'm mating the Sony up with the Advents for a longer term tryout. The presentation with classical is as well presented as even the McIntosh though not competitive from the prospective of individual sonic attributes.
The preamp inputs don't overload with 2 volts which is the max out of the Philips tuner throught the variable outputs. I used about 1 volt for listening.
I settled on testing with the Smaller Advents which do well in my room as it is. I decided not to use the Klipsch since the speakers are too efficient and I couldn't get the settings where I wanted.
I have been moving the Advents using a Sony STR6045 receiver and they are positions about 3' from any wall and about 18" off the floor to get the tweeters closer to listening position. As is, with the Sony, the sound stage is almost wall to wall and starts in front of the speakers and goes quite deep. The height is from the floor to almost the ceiling (7') but, not too tall with solo instruments. As setup, the Sony/Advent makes for a really nice classical listening system though a better antenna would help I think to reduce the Fm noise base. With the Philips, the bottom to top soundstage stayed while the side to side is now done to the outside of the speakers and the front edge moved back to the fron tof the speakers. Driving the tuner directly into the power amp increased these but, still less than with the Sony. I've tried moving the speakers a bit but there was no position that increased the soundstage.
Soundstage is only 1 thing I look for with, another being instrument placement. Here the Sony took the back seat. With the Philips, you almost felt you could put a marker where each instrument was. Subbing the C28, the soundstage increased but, not to the dimensions of the Sony and instrument placement was not as well defined.
The Philips does not have the authority of the C28. It does have greater detail while resolution in some ways is better and some ways not as good. The C28 delivers the tones from the soundbox of stringed instruments better while picking out what is being used on a cymbal goes to the Philips.
Kettles and cello has more of the attack recognized by the Philips while the C28 conveys more of the tonality. The C28 meanwhile picks up the attack on a triangle better as well as the tonality. Male vocals on either are very close. The is more sibilence with female vocal on the Philips but the voice is - well a bit more feminine.
The C28 gives me the feel that I'm say in the BSO listening while the Philips seems to put me on the banks of the Charles river listeing to the same thing. Lees hall effect, more open and airy.
The phono preamp was turned down to about 2mv and it helped focus and did not have the confused sound which it had been exhibiting. This is the opposite of what I had thought should happen but after rading the manual and realizing the preamp has four (4) independent phono preamps - yes each phono input has a separate preamp so you can run 2 radically different cartridges without having to play the gain reset game as with most preamps. You could even mod 1 for a diferent optimal load if you wanted. The result here was consistent with my other observations.
The Philips requires a bit more time to set up in the system to get the best out of it as I found out. But, once dialed in is better than I initally thought. I suspect the reveiwers back in 1978 of the preamp got so involved with the lights and switches they did not set it up and the resulting reveiw was as close to a neutral comment as I'd read. They spend too much time on the lights and switches and maybe 25% of the space on the sound qualities. If Philips had devoted a bit more to the sonics, the preamp could have been a contender for the very top few positions.
The Philips system as a whole, is very good to excellent. The total presentation is different from a McIntosh and for those who don't find the McIntosh experience to be enthralling should really enjoy the Philips. Even as a McIntosh lover, I find the system, now that it is dialed in better even more impressive. It will become my #2 system moving the tube systems down the line by 1 notch.
For those looking for a budget (I'd estimate the amp/preamp/tuner to reasonably go for aboout $1,000 though, a few total systems have been picked up just prior to the FM shootout for something like $400) high power high quality system, the Philips is a must try. That's about half the going price (and 2X the power @ 8ohms) of my McIntosh. If either AM or FM is important, then the tuner, esecially should be on your short list.
As a side, I'm mating the Sony up with the Advents for a longer term tryout. The presentation with classical is as well presented as even the McIntosh though not competitive from the prospective of individual sonic attributes.