Teac A-2340 problem - pinch roller?

[wank]

I'm new into RtoR, having come into possession of an Akai and a Teac 2340 (new if you don't count childhood experience), and so terminology is a problem for me. But I've got a problem with my Teac, and wondered if I could get some advice.

The pinch roller and associated parts seem to be jammed or gummed up - they don't move on their own. The motors, belts, and heads all seem to be fine - or at least functional. I'm able to thread a tape and reverse/forward at both play speeds as well as FF/rewind. The problem is, when I try to play, the pinch roller doesn't pinch, and the guide pins below the heads don't move into the heads (necessary to put the tape to the heads and play). I can push the pinch roller into position (which also moves the guide pins in), but it doesn't do it on its own.

I've had it open to look into it (to make sure nothing was blocking free movement of parts, that the belts visibly look OK, etc.) and it looks like a large piston looking part (I'm gonna make a guess and call it 'solenoid') appears not to be moving/engaging. I knew that if I screwed with stuff without giudance I'd permanently damage it, so I didn't screw with stuff. Is this a common problem with an obvious fix? I'm relatively handy with most tools - at least as far as lawyers go.

I'd really appreciate any help.

(And don't get the lawyer bit fool you, I work for the government, so if this isn't a self fix or a <$100 fix, it isn't going to happen).

[GasMan]

The pinch roller pivot is lubricated with a grease that in time turns to cement! From inside the deck apply some penetrating oil to the pivot while moving the pinch roller up and down from the front. It will eventually free up. This is not a permanent remedy however. A complete service involves taking the assembly apart and replacing the old grease with a modern lubricant. 2300 series were durable and reliable beasts.

[Jay Pemberton]

TRUE! I have a 2340SX that was given to me about 8 years ago that was the same way. Got it loosened up with the help of a cigarette lighter to heat the pivot and melt the gunk. Still works by the way.

[wank]

Thanks guys. All the searches I did and I never landed on the one thread that would have helped me:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=52184
Adding "pivot" to "pinch roller" did the trick.

Is 3-in-1 oil the right type of stuff?

[GasMan]

I have used 3-in-1 oil with success but penetrating oil works faster. Good Luck!

[chekov]

I had exactly the same problem with my Teac R2R.
The helpful folks here on AK provided the info I needed to fix it-
http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=54515&highlight=pinch+roller+teac

[wank]

Great - I missed TWO threads directly on point. Thanks for rubbing my nose in it. :D
I was very pleased to find the solution. But I may have to perform major surgery like you did. I've gone through the drops of oil (with 3-in-1; then gun oil) and heated with the soldering iron. And it moves more freely, but still not on its own, and gums up at the bottom.
I'll give oil one more shot, and if it's a no go, I'll do what you did.

And oh yeah - mine was identical to yours, and $20, with the Teac RE-711 takeup reel. :banana:

Interestingly, using the tape I've got, I played forward through front l&r, then turned off front, on rear, and listened to the apparent reverse side backwards. I love this stuff.

[wank]

This is getting to be too much like work.
I've tried the simple version, with 3-in-1, gun oil, sewing machine oil, soldering iron, soldering iron then oil hoping the expansion of the outer sleeve would help the oil penetrate. Pulled out the big guns with PB Blaster, still didn't get it solved.

It does move MUCH more freely now. I had to really jam it into position before, and now it's not much pressure. But it's gummy at the last 1/8" of retraction, and just enough that the solenoid doesn't appear to be able to move it up on its own.

So I started to break it down and try to disassemble the inner/outer sleeve. I got the bracket, flywheel, flywheel mounting bracket, and then had to remove from the pinch roller tensioner (retractor) spring, which involves two screws a right angle to how a screwdriver should be inserted from the back. I still couldn't pull the damn outer sleeve/bracket assembly.

I think I'm going to just have to save up lots of money I don't have and buy fully functional and pre-serviced gear from now on. Other than cleaning TT pitch control pots.

[chekov]

So I started to break it down and try to disassemble the inner/outer sleeve. I got the bracket, flywheel, flywheel mounting bracket, and then had to remove from the pinch roller tensioner (retractor) spring, which involves two screws a right angle to how a screwdriver should be inserted from the back. I still couldn't pull the damn outer sleeve/bracket assembly.
--
As I recall, this operation took me three hours (I'd never done this before either).
Can you tell what's preventing the outter sleeve from being removable?
Once it's disassembled to the state where nothing mechanical is preventing the outter sleeve from being pulled off the inner post, maybe it's just friction from the dried up grease(?) If so, maybe you can slowly work it off- just be careful not to break anything if force is required! Let us know if you need pictures or anything.
I think there are quite a few AKers who have been through this operation.

[wank]

After all of that disassembly, there was nothing structural/mechanical in the way of the outer sleeve coming off, I think. There certainly was nothing connected to the bracket that is the outer sleeve (yes, I took the pinch roller off).
I think it's just grease/glue holding it on. It was such a pain to get to that point the first time, I think it will be a while until I try it again. My fingers still hurt (I don't have the right sized hands for this work). But I got it to come up ~1/16" before I gave in.
I think I'm going to try to find or fabricate a couple of really small prybars to put equal pressure on opposite sides to push the sleeve off, and heat the thing with a soldering iron first (remembering not to try to grab it if it comes off).
We'll just have to see where we go from there.

[wank]

Success!
Just thought I'd let anyone interested know that after three straight days of attempts with gun oil, sewing machine oil, 3-in-1, and I may have even saturated a Q-tip with wd-40 and touched the end of the outer sleeve, I let it sit for about a week, and it still felt slightly hesitant.
I threaded the tape, powered up, and when I hit play it worked just fine. If I can find a new tire for that roller, I'll be really happy, since it has two dimples.
Thanks to everyone for their help.
Now all I have to do is give the Akai (x-360) a try and decide which I like better, since I doubt I need to keep 2. Financially anyway.

[Fred Longworth]

Once you have removed the pinch roller and disassembled the mechanism from the rear so that the pinch roller arm assembly's bearing (shaft inside tube) is visible, you should follow the following procedure:

(1) Get two beefy flat-head screwdrivers. You will need these to pry on opposite sides of the base of the arm assembly.

(2) Get a 200w soldering iron. Weller makes a good one.

(3) Get a friend to hold the tip of the iron against the open end of the bearing. Heat up the bearing for 2-3 minutes.

(4) After about a minute, begin prying. It is crucial to apply equal pressure on opposite sides of the arm assembly.

(5) The grease-that-has-changed-into-glue will soften. Simply pry the arm assembly off the shaft.

(6) Using acetone or ethynol, clean the shaft and the inside of the tube. Relubricate with a light oil -- or leave dry. Do NOT use grease.

(7) Reassemble and test.

At my store, we do the service this way because we want the fix to last.

Hope this helps.

Fred Longworth
StereoTech Classic Audio Repair
http://www.repairaudio.com

[wank]

Fred -
Thanks for the expertise. I'm very happy I actually have it working, but I'll go through this once I can find two flatheads that will actually fit in there. It's not roomy, and I don't have the smallest hands. I'll also wait til I can get new tire on that pinch roller, since it seems to have a couple dimples.
When I do - what would be an appropriate "light oil"? Would sewing machine oil or gun oil (Rem Oil, with teflon) be the right stuff?

[Fred Longworth]

Terry's Rubber Rollers can help you rebuild the pinch roller tire. Terry Witt does first-class work. Last time I checked, Teac still supplied the roller.

As far as lubricants, you're on the right track. Use light machine oil or Teflon lubricant.

* * * * *

On many Teac's, to be able to get the flathead screwdrivers in place, it helps to remove the panel on the right-side of the machine. I have two (cheap) flathead screwdrivers that I've bent the tips on so that they function as efficient pry-bars.

Best,

Fred Longworth
StereoTech Classic Audio Repair
http://www.repairaudio.com

[Boobtubeman]

SPEAKING OF TEACS.....

I have a pair of A-2340 decks Both have that sticky situation and ill use this thread to fix em, Right now both decks have other severe problems:

Deck 1 has a bad CH1 record head otherwise it plays tapes exellent...
Deck 2 has no FF or REW. When you push either of these keys you hear the relays respond, but the motors act as if theres no power getting to them...
Advice, a schematic, a swift kick in the right direction would be appreciated :)

Steve

[antf4rm]

I'm having the same problem everything works great but no fast forward or rewind. All the relays switch, the brakes release. The motors just dont spin. I tried cleaning the relays but it made no difference.
I'm wondering if the Boobtubeman ever found out what the problem was.


Chris

[antf4rm]

TEAC A-2340
Same problem here everything works great but no FF or REW. Relays are working brakes are releasing just no power to the motors it seems.

Wondering if boobtubeman ever found the solution to this problem.
xxxxxxxx

sorry posted twice.
chris

[jblmar]

Sounds like a power supply issue.

Ron

[antf4rm]

actually i fixed it.

turns out the lever switch was very dirty and not completing the circuit for the motor voltage.

i had to remove it and take the switch itself apart clean each wafer with a fiberglass brush and fine sand paper (for getting under the discs and in between the legs). Make a nice legend so you know where the wires are attached and leave the caps on.

Attached all the wires again stuffed the switch back in and now i've got FF and REW!

yay.

hope this helps boobtubeman.

chris