Well, you can't win them all

[Cleve]

I'd had a pretty good track record with Ebay/Audiogon and shipping. That ended today. I had recently won a McIntosh Mc2002 200 watt per channel amplifier on Ebay. It arrived today. This is a copy of my e-mail to the seller...

Dear Seller;

I'm sorry, but there's are problems with the amp.

First, the packing was, I feel, inadequate for an amplifier of this size and weight. Double boxing is usually the recommended practice with a heavy amp or receiver, The unit itself should be surrounded with a layer of fine bubble wrap, and then the bubble wrapped unit encased is in foam on all 6 sides in the box so that there's no "slop".

But the unit was single boxed, the size of the box didn't leave much room for padding or packaging, and only one piece of foam was placed in the box - under the unit. Padding was primarily via bubble wrap - and most people in audio will tell you that bubble wrap by itself just won't cut it with a massive amplifier like a McIntosh.

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/8601/digitalphotos66060032mg.th.jpg (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=digitalphotos66060032mg.jpg)

When I received the amp today, I could feel it shift from side to side in the box - that's never a good sign, especially with a 71 lb piece of electronics.
I've attached some photos so you can see - I took them as I unpacked it - now, I didn't really care about the wooden case - I intended to run it in my rack without the case - but you should know that the corners were obviously damaged by sliding/banging of the box during transit. There was actually chunks of wood on the bottom of the box that were worn off in transit, either from the corners being rounded, or the amp sliding back and forth in the case and gouging the insides of the case. One of the seams of the case is almost separated now.

http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/1413/digitalphotos66060041pn.th.jpg (http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=digitalphotos66060041pn.jpg)

Please note also - I took a photo as I removed the unit from the box - and a photo showing the "up" arrow on the outside of the carton - but the power switch is at the bottom of the front faceplate - what this shows is that, yes, the unit was shipped upside down all the way across America.

http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/9804/digitalphotos66060059xt.th.jpg (http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=digitalphotos66060059xt.jpg)

http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/6341/digitalphotos66060061yi.th.jpg (http://img282.imageshack.us/my.php?image=digitalphotos66060061yi.jpg)
Now for the electrical issues - There's supposed to be 6 lamps for the power meters - but 3 of them are completely out. Also, the lamps that do work flicker very badly - they're supposed to stay on steadily - but sometimes they go completely out.
Also, the panel lights that illuminate the McIntosh logo above the Power Guard/Temperature lamps are also completely out.

I intended to use this amp to replace a McIntosh Mc7100 amp that I'm using, bridged to mono, as my center channel amp. I use three identical Klipsch speakers as my left, center, and right front speakers. I did hook the amplifier up to my Klipsch center, set it for mono, and gave it an audition.

But what I found is that the amp is "clipping" far too easily - the factory rates this amplifier as 600 watts continuous - 20 -20 khz when it's bridged to mono - that's twice the power of the Mc7100 that the Mc2002 was intended to replace. Now, I've already used a sound meter and the level settings on my McIntosh MX-132 preamp to equalize the sound levels in all three speakers. But what I found was that just over 20 watts indicated per channel, the Power Guard circuit is tripping on the Mc2002.

I'm using a McIntosh 2205 for my left and right channels - that also is a 200 watt per channel amp - and it wasn't clipping at this sound level - far from it - the 2205 meters read just over 20 watts per channel too - I've never seen the Mc7100's power guard circuit trip - and that has only half the rated power of the Mc2002. Something is definitely wrong with the amplifier, and I removed it from my system.

I'm assuming that these electrical issues are a result of shipping damage - you did advertise this unit as "in perfect operating condition". I've bought a lot of audio gear via Ebay and Audiogon, including the aforementioned McIntosh MX-132, Mc2205, Mc7100, and also a McIntosh Mac4100 receiver, and this is the first unit that wasn't "as advertised" and which I had any problems with.

I realize these things happen, but I would like to know what you propose to correct the problems. I sincerely doubt that FedEx will accept any claim for this unit - as they'll say - and I feel rightfully so, that the packing wasn't adequate for shipping of that distance. Thanks for your help.


Jim

[Mike Gibson]

Cleve, that is really sad to see a good piece of gear treated that way. Hopefully the seller will make good on it.

[Cleve]

Yes, I was less than thrilled. That's terrible packaging, especially for a $900 item. I should have just told them to keep the wooden case anyways - It's not a factory case - just a slip case, it was in less than stellar shape anyways, and I planned to use the amp "nude" in my rack.

Whoever packed it (I think the seller has employees) tried to keep the amp from shifting in the case by stuffing bubble wrap inside, but it just didn't do the job - where the bezel was rubbing on the case - it looks like somebody took sandpaper to it. I'm surre all that extra movement by the amp inside the case didn't do the electronics any good either.

I think the seller's a decent guy - he called me last night while I was out - I'll call him mid-day today (3 hour time difference). I'm going to ask him if he wants it back, or preferably - I take it to Audio Classics and split the repair costs 50/50, as long as it can be repaired for $300 or so.

[SPL db]

I like how in one of your pictures as your unboxing it, you can see part of your system so
nice and neatly in place...

Kind of emphasizes your point of what you wrote in the text! :thmbsp:

Hope everything works out well for everyone! :yes:

Scott

[Cleve]

I spoke to the seller on the phone - he sounds like stand-up kind of guy - we even ended up talking about Audio Classics - he buys and trades with them. He usually ships at least 5 items a day - many of them high-end audio - but he hires people/companies to pack for him. The fellow who packed this amp was let go - unfortunately after my amp shipped - for similar poor packing.

I believe this will have a satisfactory resolution. I'll let everyone know how it works out.

[Cleve]

Does anyone know how long it takes to hear from Fed Ex claims? Supposedly, the seller filed a claim last Tuesday when I received the amp, but I haven't heard anything from Fed Ex as of yet.

[Cleve]

Bump

[EchoWars]

They take their time...and expect the claim to be rejected.

Both FedEx and UPS have disclaimers on their sites that labels such as 'this side up', 'fragile', directional arrows, and so forth can be expected to be ignored.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...if you have concerns about the abilities of the seller to package well, send them the box and materials with instructions. Then they have no excuse.

[Cleve]

Thanks for your thoughts, Echo. This seller had high positive feedback, and sells a lot of audio items, lot of expensive stuff. So I didn't think he'd need a packing and shipping primer. But apparently he outsources his packing - the numbnutz who got my job from the seller packed it UPSIDE DOWN from the "UP" arrow he put on the outside of the box. The seller told me he doesn't use this guy anymore because of similar problems - but fat lotta good that does me.

I just can't believe such an expensive amplifier would be packed so poorly. :( I did file a Paypal/Ebay dispute tonight to protect myself - since there's a 45 day deadline for doing so, and it's already been 41 days since I paid for the auction.

[Grainger49]

If FedEx is like other carriers, they pay the shipper, not the recipient.

That sucks for those of us who buy insurance and shipping.

But it sounds like this guy should move forward regardless of the claim.

Good luck!