K-horn or K-Clone?

[gonzothegreat]

How can you tell the difference? Somebody wants to sell their 60s vintage khorns and I'd like to know if they're Klones. He said they were better built than the ones he tried to make from plans and had a blonde wood surface before some freak stained them some nasty dark shade.

The horns are in rough shape. The tweeters (T350) both have open VCs (are replacements available for them?) and one of the woofers isn't original (I can't recall what brand it was). The xover is labeled EV fwiw.

I will post some pics shortly from my home PC.

[steamer01]

How can you tell the difference? Somebody wants to sell their 60s vintage khorns and I'd like to know if they're Klones. He said they were better built than the ones he tried to make from plans and had a blonde wood surface before some freak stained them some nasty dark shade.

The horns are in rough shape. The tweeters (T350) both have open VCs (are replacements available for them?) and one of the woofers isn't original (I can't recall what brand it was). The xover is labeled EV fwiw.

I will post some pics shortly from my home PC.
Hello,
They would have serial #'s to identify the year of manufacture as well as the model type and finish option.
If you can get some #'s I have a chart to look it up.
The tweeters are a matter of replacing the diaphrams,easy to get.The woofer is a different matter as PWK used specific custom made to spec for the horn loading of the bass bin.If it does not fall within certain parameters then it wont sound right.But you can get the correct one easily.
Greg

[Filmboydoug]

The serial number on the sticker should also be stamped into the plywood.

Original tweeters were t35's, not t350's, and an EV xover is not correct either.

BECtoo on this forum can hook you up with any parts you need including new crossovers if need be.

[Filmboydoug]

BECtoo also commissioned a run of replacements for the t35 which are said to be a huge improvement.

[gonzothegreat]

Pics as promised.

So far it sounds like they need new tweeters and at least one woofer to bring 'em back to life (ignoring cabinet work). I'll get driver specifics in a day or two.

Any idea what the mids might be?

[Filmboydoug]

This is neither a khorn nor a clone. Klipsch liscensed out the design to other makers. I think that is what you have here.

[macaltec]

Electro-Voice offered a similiar speaker styled like the K-horn called the Georgian. I believe it was under lisence from Klipsch. The controls mounted on the side in that one pic are screaming of the EV plans. EV also offered a T350 horn tweeter. I have been wrong before and it is possible I am now, but thats waht I'm seeing and thinking :scratch2: .

[Filmboydoug]

I think thats it. They made a Georgian and a Patrician.

[macaltec]

I think thats it. They made a Georgian and a Patrician.

......and others.

There would be no mistaking a Patrician. I've looked at some vague plans for the Georgian and on the outside it looks very close to a K-horn. Not sure about the internals as I've not seen them on the Klipsch.

[steamer01]

Definately not a K-Horn that is for sure!
Greg

[gonzothegreat]

Electro-Voice offered a similiar speaker styled like the K-horn called the Georgian. I believe it was under license from Klipsch. The controls mounted on the side in that one pic are screaming of the EV plans. EV also offered a T350 horn tweeter. I have been wrong before and it is possible I am now, but thats what I'm seeing and thinking :scratch2: .

Good work MA/FBD! I punched Georgian into the eb-ay search engine and this is what it spit back (ignoring a bunch of real estate and collectible plate listings).

http://cgi.ebay.com/Electro-Voice-Hi-Fi-Speaker-Georgian-Electrovoice-EV_W0QQitemZ9744304659QQcategoryZ50597QQssPageName ZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This one is significantly different but there are styling similarities - the two level controls (as you pointed out) and the metal mustache on the front of the cabinet. I'd bet this was a homegrown model stuffed with EV parts.

To be honest, I was only casually interested in buying a K-horn (if only for its legendary reputation). Now that I've discovered its an EV, I'm seriously interested. I've fallen head over heels for my thrift store Sentry 5s and I've been jonesin' for something *bigger*. This certainly fits the bill...

Here's a link to a Georgian kit that is a four-way instead of a three way. Not sure if "mine" is a legit model variation or an end user bastardization.

http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/Electro-Voice/117-15.jpg

One more question. I've heard K-horns need a *big* room to really sing. My primary system is in a 18' by 14' room. I have a feeling this is close to the absolute minimum. Any comments?

[steamer01]

One more question. I've heard K-horns need a *big* room to really sing. My primary system is in a 18' by 14' room. I have a feeling this is close to the absolute minimum. Any comments?

!8'x14' will work fine with the K-Horns.People on the Klipsch forum have them in smaller rooms.The best part about your dimension are they are not square.Should work ok.
Greg

[Filmboydoug]

And if possible put them on the long wall.

[macaltec]

I believe the EV Georgian had many speaker driver combos available. They were marketed that way as being expandable as money allowed. Seems to me there was a four way system to be had. Not sure of the driver compliment. The Aristocrat had similiar options as did other models they were available as a kit and plans only for those more ambitious. I'd snag em if I had the chance. Then figure out exactly what I had and what to do with them. Just my $.02.

[gonzothegreat]

I'd snag em if I had the chance. Then figure out exactly what I had and what to do with them.

That's my game plan. I'll have to clear out a big hole in my storage locker while I pound them back into shape.I might have a chance to take a look at them Sunday so hopefully I can find out what woofer I'll need.

Thanks again to all the k-heads. You've been a big help.

[PaulParrot]

He said they were better built than the ones he tried to make from plans . . .

I'd be very very very skeptical of this outrageous claim. He couldn't follow the plans so he's claiming that something he whipped together is superior?

Clearly from the picture the one speaker has been flogged and beaten. IF you can get them for dirt cheap and IF you want to put a lot of labor into making them presentable, then it might be okay to purchase them. I wouldn't, though. Why put that kind of effort into "restoring" something that isn't original, when the effort could be put into restoring a classic?

Also, doesn't look like a legitimate Georgian, so it won't sound like a legitimate Georgian.

[gonzothegreat]

I'd be very very very skeptical of this outrageous claim. He couldn't follow the plans so he's claiming that something he whipped together is superior?

What he meant (and I tried to express this clearly) is that building a k-horn from plans and a sheet of plywood is definitely not something for beginners. He thought these kit-Georgians were better built than his admittedly poor attempt at a kh.

Clearly from the picture the one speaker has been flogged and beaten. IF you can get them for dirt cheap and IF you want to put a lot of labor into making them presentable, then it might be okay to purchase them. I wouldn't, though. Why put that kind of effort into "restoring" something that isn't original, when the effort could be put into restoring a classic?

From our short chat, he bought them because they were cheap. They were in bad shape to begin with and he never got around to restoring them. These will never be diamonds or even rough diamonds. While some audiophiles go nuts over stuff being factory perfect after forty odd years, I'm more interested in what these puppies can deliver to my ears. If I had a bottomless checkbook, maybe but even then I'd still be a scrounger.

If they're cheap, I'll buy them and try my hand at bringing them "up to code". I'm a sucker for abused gear and spending a year or more on a project isn't a big deal to me. Besides, pickings for stuff like this in my neck of the woods is pretty slim so I ain't too particular.

Also, doesn't look like a legitimate Georgian, so it won't sound like a legitimate Georgian.

Weren't the vintage kits (like this one) created so the budget audiophile (like me) could enjoy the likes of EV as long as they were willing to trade some elbow grease and time for a decent discount?

[Filmboydoug]

With some new grill cloth, veneer, adult beverages in moderate quantities, and lots of elbow grease those should look great.

Do you think you'll restore them to original or update the look? You didn't ask for an opinion but if it were me I'd do them up in a out there veneer and peddle the brass ornaments on ebay.

[Filmboydoug]

By the way, is that EV crossover potted? If it is, have fun restoring that! Ha ha! :D

[macaltec]

By the way, is that EV crossover potted? If it is, have fun restoring that! Ha ha! :D

Yup, there's no work that can be done inside most of em. Best to find a schematic and duplicate.

[gonzothegreat]

I saw them on Sunday and they looked pretty clean relatively speaking aside from the peeling stain. They owner said they were made of oak but I don't know my woods.

The woofer was an EV 15wk. The only source I've found for it is some ebuy seller who wants $400 (ouch!) for one. Anyone know of a cheaper source?

The tweeter was a 16 ohm t350 and the owner had ordered 8 ohm replacements for the toasted VCs. As pointed out in a recent thread, this shouldn't make too much of a difference.

I didn't get a chance to look at the mids closely but it resembled the lower part of a clarinet. The owner said it was some strange design that radiated forward and backward into the triangular upper enclosure.

The xover was an EV x336 iirc (will check my notes tonight). Three way with the points at 300 and 3500 if memory serves.

The speakers are on the top floor of a three story house with narrow stairs. That will be a fun move should I pull the trigger. I made the owner an offer and I'll see if he accepts. If so, its time to clean out the car and pawn the family jewels.

[pocketchange]

Way & I mean waaay back, I built a pair of Patricians AND Georgians. The Georgians (for some reason unknow to me) were head and shoulders above the bigger Patricians. In a big room the Patricians came into their own but the Georgians were and still are a great listening system.

I still have them BTW.