okay guys. here goes. So, i've decided i need to get a nice turntable. I have a pioneer pl-v70 (same as pl-910, pl-l90) linear track and i'm getting sick of it as my day to day table. I have looked around at the high end tables out there -- B & O, Dual, Empire, Thorens and quite frankly it's a bit hard to decide from all of these. I'm looking to spend MAX $200 + shipping and i'm in no hurry to buy. Basically, I want a turntable that can become my daily unit that will 1) Sound great 2) Not damage my records 3) Look nice.

I guess i just need some recommendations. It doesn't have to be one of those above brands, just high quality and in good condition. I tend to prefer simpler tables that are all business. Strobes are fine, but the less to break the better in general. Direct drive or Belt drive is fine. This table would be married to a Pioneer SA-8500 II through Advents or hopefully down the line, possibly some pioneers. Just wanted some of your expert opinions :) thanks in advance guys. :smoke:

I like a Technics direct drive table. It's nothing to look at, however it is rugged, simple and all business. They are relatively common and easy to find. Someone probably has one in their attic within a few blocks of your house.

I like a Technics direct drive table. It's nothing to look at, however it is rugged, simple and all business. They are relatively common and easy to find. Someone probably has one in their attic within a few blocks of your house.


Plenty of good TT's to choose from, when you decide post a thread in the classified for what your looking for and let AK'ers help. :thmbsp:

I have a Pioneer PL12D II that needs a new belt. New arm, exact replacement I installed a few years ago. I kept the 'tabe as a back up. Works fine.

Ron

A thorens td 160 would be a good choice. Good luck on your selection.

I have a thorens TD-160, and it needs a stylus.

Good suggestions above. One thing to be aware of with a Thorens is some have a spring suspension, which means they are susceptable to footfall vibrations and will most probably need a wallmount shelf for it to sit on (unless you have concrete floors). I have a TD160 in use and I love it.

I also have some experience with Technics DD tables and would recommend a SL1XXX model (with the 1200 being amoung the top). I currently have an SL1300 and an SP25 and prefer the SP25 over the SL1300. There is a website dedicated to info about vintage Technics tables, but I lost it last week when my computer was killed by a nasty virus. Maybe someone here will post a link.

Of all the tables that I have used in the budget catagory you are looking at, I would get the Thorens for musicality and easy tweaks. If you want no fuss operation, then one of the better Technics would be a good choice.

I also suggest you search for one locally to avoid shipping damage. But I am sure those who have offered above know how to package a TT to lessen the risk of damage.

I also suggest you search for one locally to avoid shipping damage. But I am sure those who have offered above know how to package a TT to lessen the risk of damage.[/QUOTE]

Well, actually, I am not all too sure about that. I know the platter needs to be removed. The tonearm obviously needs to be secured with string or such, and probably wrapped with foam or such, right??what else?? Do the springs need to be removed, or fastened down?? There appears to be a place for "shipping screws" on the TT under the platter.

I have several duals and BIC's I am in Nj where are you? Pickup is better thasn shipping. Find an older person who might have one near you.

:wave: PMs Welcome

Rich P

I also suggest you search for one locally to avoid shipping damage. But I am sure those who have offered above know how to package a TT to lessen the risk of damage.

Well, actually, I am not all too sure about that. I know the platter needs to be removed. The tonearm obviously needs to be secured with string or such, and probably wrapped with foam or such, right??what else?? Do the springs need to be removed, or fastened down?? There appears to be a place for "shipping screws" on the TT under the platter.
The counterweight needs to be removed from the arm also.

See Joel's advice at The Turntable Factory (http://www.theturntablefactory.com/packing.html).

- Harald

I highly recommend the Technics tables. I bought an SL-Q2 on ebay for $52 shipped right to my door, and I haven't regretted it for a second. It's rock solid, and while it lacks the pitch controls and high torque motor of the SL-1XXX series, it sounds just like one. I also happen to think the Technics tables are very nice to look at.

Just a friendly reminder. People, please send a PM to an individual if you have an item for sale in response to a general question.

Do not post in a thread about stuff you have for sale. It contravenes AK rules.

If you are looking for a specific item, either to buy or sell, post in the classifieds.

A general question like the one from Rommaster asking what TT is a good buy is OK, but if you ask a question like" where can I buy a Yakazoni TT (a fictitious example), the post is sure to be deleted unless it is in the classifieds.

For the people that posted they have an item available for sale in this thread, please edit your post and remove the references to items you have for sale. The posts where a recommendation is made for a specific model are fine and helpful. It is when a person says I have XYZ available that is taboo.

Thanks for your understanding about this.

I second the Thorens TD-160. :thmbsp:

A Pioneer PL 71 will match up nicely with the rest of your gear, it's a great deck, largely underrated.

A Pioneer PL 71 will match up nicely with the rest of your gear, it's a great deck, largely underrated.

One of the best looking decks I've seen.

Ron

Just wanted to post a thank you for the input. I am watching this thread and checking out the different suggestions. Right now i'm leaning towards either pioneer or that thorens that was suggested. I think the direct drive pioneer may win, still shopping :) I'll post more later.

Isn't anyone going to tell Rommaster not to go for a direct drive table, or have I been misinformed this whole time?

I've always thought of it as preference. Is your argument because of higher noise from the motor? Now that i think about it though, i've never used a direct drive. Every single one has been belt...hmm.. so guys, is there noticeable motor hum and noise even on the high end direct drive TT's?

I would suggest a belt driven table, I've had some very nice tables of both varieties and I believe belt driven tables sound better.

Stay away from linear tracking in your price range.

Less features are generally better - no fancy smancy cueing or other such things to muck with the sound.

I owned an MMF-5 at one point - A little more than what you are wanting to spend but a nice table at the price. There is one on Audiogon currently for $300.

Does the $200 budget include cartridge? inquiring minds want to know.

Contrary to popular myth good quality direct drives are often quieter than belt drives. Think about it - a small motor spinning at around 300rpm is always going to create more vibrations than a motor turning at 33.3 rpm and on a direct drive motor the main bearing (which is turning anyway) becomes the motor bearing and is the only moving part. Added to this there is no belt pulling the bearing to one side which can also increase noise and wear as well as transmit vibrations into the platter.

I own (among several belt drives) a Technics SL1510mk2 direct drive (like a 1500mk2 only in black). It is a superb turntable, silent as a grave, stable as a rock and with a lower noise floor than many belt drives. So, no, direct drive is not inherently noisier than belt drive.

Or maybe TD-145, TD-146, TD-147, they all have auto off. The TD-147 is supposed to be like the TD-160 Super, but with auto off.

The debate rages: Direct Drive vs Belt Drive

I have had good examples of both kinds in my system at various times, from a Thorens TD-145 and a Dual 505 belt drive, to a 1200 Technics and a Dual CS 607 direct drive. Frankly, I could live with either, but prefer the direct drive tables. Sonically I couldn't detect any major differnences, with maybe the DD tables having a more lively sound.

At the end of the day, I doubt we'll arrive at a concensus on this topic on this forum. I think that is simply an indication that the folks here have a diversity of experiences and needs, and advocate from their own perspective.

So, its back to you. Do your homework, check out all your options, and feel confident that you've made the best choice for your own, particular, circumstances.

Get a nice old Dual 1019 or 1200 series, slap a new cartridge on it and your good to go for years.

I don't think you would be disappointed with a good belt drive or a good direct drive, provided you stay away from the cheaper offerings. It seems every manufacturer made some very respectable models that would serve you nicely in your price range.

If I was in your shoes (which I have been) my first preference would be a Thorens 124 thru 166 model. After that I would seriously consider one of the better Technics SL1200 thru 1700. The lower #'s in both would generally be the better table. Just be aware that alot of the SL1200 might have DJ use, I would stay away from those if you don't know it's history.

There are also some good Duals, especially the 701 and 1229. They are pretty complex if they aren't working properly. Also, Acoustic Research made some nice tables. ALso, Denon made some excellent tables. The DP59 and higher are awesome looking to boot.

Anyway, you have gotten some excellent suggestions in this thread. This should give you a good idea of some tables to keep and eye out for. There are many more not listed, as Pioneer, Sony, Sansui, Kenwood, all made some excellent tables in their higher end offerings. Take your time and pounce when you find a good one.

One more thing and I will shut up. Also keep an eye out for a Technics SP models.

Pass on the B & O. I've had one for 16 years, I love it, it looks great, it tracks beautifully. But that proprietary cartridge isn't worth it. For what you'd pay for the cart alone -- if you can find one -- you can get a better performing turntable from the possibilities others have already mentioned.

As far as direct vs. belt, keep in mind that almost every radio station turntable has been direct drive. The single defining factor in how good a table will sound is the quality of it, not whether it's direct drive or belt drive. There are some great direct drives and some great belt drives, just as there is crap of both kinds out there.

As far as direct vs. belt, keep in mind that almost every radio station turntable has been direct drive.

See, i had heard actually that radio stations typically used belt drive. I heard that the empire troubadour series were popular radio station models.

Glad to hear that direct drive vs. belt drive actually seems to be preference. The only reason why i was leaning towards direct was 1) I don't like to replace belts 2) i've never owned one and kinda wanted to give it a try 3) I like the idea that they have negative feedback controlling the rpm to an exact tolerance.

So, here's an update. At this point, from what has been said, i have come to the following conclusions for what i should get:

1) Thorens TD-160 (belt)
2) Technics SL-1200 - 1600 (DD)
3) Pioneer -- inconclusive to which model
4) Dual 1019 or 1200 (belt)

It seems to me that the thorens is overwhelmingly recommended vs. the other models and from my own research, the thorens seems really nice. From what i had read, the thorens has really good isolation at basically every point of construction to reduce any vibrations that could leak into the audio chain.

So, my question now is, can i go wrong with the thorens? Does anybody have any reasons why i shouldn't get the thorens? After this is decided, i'll need some cartridge help because i'd like to group the optimal cartridge with the TT.

Just to offer my other 2cents.
I'm currnetly using a modest Pioneer PL-12D with a Grado Signature 8MX. It does exactly what it was designed to do. Spin a record. I like it. But...

I felt the need to upgrade to more of a true audiophile table. Like you, I posted a vary similar topic on this site and I was told to get in touch with Dave over at www.vinylnirvana.com. He sepecializes in restoring Thorens TTs.
Like I did, I would suggest checking out his web site and sending him an email. You can then talk to him (he'll call you at specified time) about what you are looking for. Price range and all that.

I'm expecting my Thorens TD-160 in a few weeks. Price was right on.

-Mike

Like I did, I would suggest checking out his web site and sending him an email. You can then talk to him (he'll call you at specified time) about what you are looking for. Price range and all that.

Thakns for the recommendation. If i decide on the Thorens, which I am leaning towards doing, i will contact him. :banana:

As far as direct vs. belt, keep in mind that almost every radio station turntable has been direct drive.

With 30 plus years in radio I can tell you far and away most radio station turntables were idler wheel models made by company's like Gates, BE, Sparta, QRK and such that you just don't see in peoples homes.

Contrary to popular myth good quality direct drives are often quieter than belt drives

The rumble and s/n on my belt drive SOTA Moonbeam are both about 5 db better than on the PL-71 I suggested would go with your system. According to an old buyers guide that I have in my livingroom the PL-71 and the Thorens TD-160 are tied. .All that means is you would be hard pressed to be bothered by any of them.

is there noticeable motor hum and noise even on the high end direct drive TT's

My two cent's, there are good and bad of both types, all the models that have been posted here have been good types.

re PL-71 One of the best looking decks I've seen.

Amen, made for Pioneer by CEC who these days make belt drive CD players.

I'm currnetly using a modest Pioneer PL-12D with a Grado Signature 8MX. It does exactly what it was designed to do. Spin a record.

One of the best selling turntables of all time. Only eclisped by long lived models like the Technics 1200 series.

If you want a "no muss, no fuss" TT that will give you years of service with little or no maintenace demands, try a Technics direct drive. My venerable SL-1300 has had a place in my system since 1974. In all that time, it has never failed to function flawlessly, except that, after 32 years, I need to replace damping fluid at some point. Prior to buying the Technics, I had a lot of different tables. starting with an idler wheel driven record grinder and moving through the BSR's, Garrards, and Duals. My two turntables prior to the Technics were a Thorens ( don't remember the model) with a Rabco arm and a Phillips 212. I intially bought the Technics just to prevent waking up to the endless turning of an LP with the arm at the end. At first I used it only for convenience but it soon won out over the others and has remained a vital part of my gear. :smoke:

One thing I don't under stand is "daily basis", in my world that means a little less super high fidelity and easy to use. That's why I recommended the Thorens TD-147 with auto off. You put the record on and then forget about it, just do you're things and listen "on the run". The TD-160 is full manual; it keeps spinning with the arm down!

...also in the Thorens range is the later TD320 or TD318 decks. These have auto stop and arm lift and are vastly underrated turntables (IMO).

rega p3..
or
thorens td 160

hm..classic fixed plinth vs classic 3 point suspended... :scratch2:

MattC, you are right about that, the TD-320 is supposed to be in the 16x class. But think they do tend to be more expensive.

Dual 1000's & 1200's are rim driven.