Computer Hardware Question(s)

[jimmymagick]

Okay, this one is gonna be easy for you guys but I need a little bit of handholding.

Computer is a Dell Dimension 2350 with a 2.00 GHz Pentium 4 and 256MB ram.

I have some time on my hands so I figured to do a little upgrade with more ram and a DVD drive. I was planning on having it done at CompUSA but now I'm wondering if I can do it myself. (I replaced the floppy drive on my old computer so I'm not a complete novice.)

1. I went to the Crucial website and let it scan my computer for the appropriate RAM. I have one open slot--according to the scan--and I ordered 512 MB, which doesn't exceed what the computer can handle.

I can't believe I just can't just snap the thing in myself. True?

2. I originally got a DVD-ROM drive from Circuit City but I just received an email from Micro Center.

For a couple of bucks less, I can get:

"SAMSUNG 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2M Cache ATA/ATAPI DVD Burner With LightScribe - OEM"

They don't list the minimum requirements for the computer. (And I have no idea what ATA/ATAPI means.)

Will this work in my computer?

And just as important: can I install it???

As I said, easy for you guys but I need some guidance.

Thanks.

[VA tubeaudio]

Guy check the documentation that came with your Dell. Good way to double-check the type of RAM the computer will take. Installing it is very simple, and instructions should be in your documentation as well. If you have lost the documentation, most manuals are available online at Dell's website. Try this link for your machine:

http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dim2350/docs.htm#1106171

Installing a new DVD+R is fairly straightforward as well. You need only to physically install the new drive and make two connections - one for power and one for data transfer. This is not unlike replacing a floppy drive. Depending on the number of device bays you have, you might not even need remove the existing drive if you don't want to.

As for ATA/ATAPI, the terms are synonymous and refer to a data transfer technology. If your Dell is a few years old it will undoubtedly support ATA drives.

[jimmymagick]

Thanks, Power.

I have an open bay so I was just planning on adding the DVD. Sounds like that will make it easier. (I was originally just going to add a DVD Rom so I could pull the audio off some discs but I figured a burner that was even cheaper was a no brainer.)

I'm going to guess I should disconnect everything (external hard drive, dsl modem) and install the ram--then reconnect everything and check it.
Then do the whole process over again with the dvd.

Again, thanks.

[skippy_ps]

It's a piece of cake to snap the memory module in place. There's a little cut out on the contact side of the module so it will only go in one way.

That Samsung drive appears to be an oem drive and will come with nothing but the drive and the software disc so you'll need screws and a ribbon cable. It's $41 at Newegg. Perhaps there is an unused connector on the existing cd drive that you can use but it seems to work better if you use a separate cable plugged directly into the mobo.

Murray

[jimmymagick]

Screws and a ribbon cable. Gotcha.

But I have no idea of what you're referring to by "mobo."

(By the way, I have a coupon from Micro Center that has the drive for $37.99, instore only.)

[SPL db]

mobo means mother board...

If it's possible, and doesn't complicate things too much for you, I would run the current ROM
drive and the new DVD drive on the secondary IDE channel and let the HDD run on the primary
IDE channel alone.

That way the ROMs have their own channel and so does the HDD... speeds things up a little
bit... also check to see what transfer mode the ROM drives are set for in device manger...
if they are set to "PIO only" mode, change them to "DMA if available".

Scott

[skippy_ps]

Good point on enable dma transfer. Under "ide ata/atapi contoller."

Murray

[jimmymagick]

I'm not sure whether or not you guys have scared me off from the project but I'm certainly going to give it a try.

Thanks for letting me know where the possible problems are. (Especially what's not included in the box. I never would have realized I needed additional parts.)

I did find somewhat detailed instructions on the Dell site for adding an additional DVD/CD drive to my particular computer.

Again, thanks for all the help.

[SPL db]

It sounds worse than it really is... you'll do fine! :thmbsp:

If the instructions tell you to strap both drives to CS (cable select), it would be better
to run one master and the other slave.

Best to run the old drive as the master and run the new drive (that's able to R/W to a
larger list of media) as the slave drive.

Clear as mud? :D

Scott

[skippy_ps]

There's nuthin to it. Anyway, the best way to learn is to just jump in and get started.

BTW, it just occurred to me that your Dell may mount the optical drives with rails or a sled. If so, there's probably some extra ones snapped to the bottom of the case or in an empty bay. Once you open up the case, you'll see what I'm talking about - if the drives are mounted that way.

Murray

[jimmymagick]

Damn, you're good.

According to the directions I got from the Dell site, there are extra alignment screws.

There's also supposed to be an middle data connector on the ribbon cable.

I'll may just need a power cable and securing screws.

Starting to get excited. Thanks.

[slow_jazz]

all the hardware you need should be in the new dvd drive your buying.

piece of cake putting the memory in. sometimes you have to push hard to set the memory in.

[markthefixer]

Damn, you're good.

According to the directions I got from the Dell site, there are extra alignment screws.

There's also supposed to be an middle data connector on the ribbon cable.

I'll may just need a power cable and securing screws.

Starting to get excited. Thanks.

For some reason your userid won't take PM's so here goes...

I've been through this recently with a Dell P3. I'm near York Road and Irving Park in your area (just in case) and am just a PM and a phone call away.

There will probably be extra power connectors hanging loose in the box, the screws can be metric or english, and I have a bunch of both if you decide to hit the pavement looking for some.

DON'T get scared by the stuff below:

That "channel" stuff and DMA stuff can be tweaked later...

The computer motherboard usually has TWO disk controllers ("Channels"), because a disk drive keeps the controller busy doing things(like a 2 year old)....
so to speed things up , say in copying things from a CDROM/DVD to your hard drive, (or burning a cd etc..) they have TWO controllers... otherwise the controller would have to wait for everything to finish with the source drive before it could start writing to the destination drive...

Then for expandibility they added a second drive capability to each controller
allowing you to have 4 drives in the computer, with the operating system (usually) allowing to use two at a time...

So if the two drives you are using for that operation are on the same channel/controller.... it's going to be slowwwwwwwwwwww.



As to that ATA/ATAPI cable stuff, there are 3 variations of disk drive cables,

one variation is very very old and slow (ATA) and you had to set a little plastic shorting plug with internal wire on each drive (master / slave) if you used two drives on that cable,

then there is the most likely cable with your P4 - the ATAPI... the same physical connectors (very very wide) but the wiring is different internally to boost the speed and since they fooled around with the wiring they added that "cable select" stuff.... so whichever of the connectors it was plugged into decided which drive was master or slave. They also added stuff so the disk controller can "sense" if a fast cable is plugged in and take advantage of it.

The third variation is VERY new, and it's called SATA.. It's a whole DIFFERENT animal with a MUCH smaller connector. The only reason I mention it is that a 2.0 Ghz P4 MIGHT have it....

[jimmymagick]

Again, thanks. I picked up the dvd drive at Micro Center this afternoon and it looks like I have everything I need.

And when I got home, UPS had been here with the additional RAM from Crucial. Looks like an interesting weekend.

Installation looks fairly straightforward (altho it would probably would be easier with slightly smaller hands).

As for the settings after I install it, I think you've made that as clear as possible.

Thanks--but you may hear from me again.

One more question: should I install the ram and drive at the same time or would it be safer to install the ram, plug everything back in and check it.
Then disconnect everything again to install the dvd?

[skippy_ps]

Just do it all at the same time. If something goes wrong with the ram, your system will hang at post (pre operating system test) and if the drive is haywire, it will just not be recognized (system doesn't see it).

Right click on "my computer" then properties and you should see the total sys ram, then hardware and device manager. Under "dvd/cdrom" you should see both optical drives.

I would power up with the case open 'til you get everything running smoothly - you can lay it on its side if need be.

Murray

[markthefixer]

IMHO one thing at a time, and see that it works before doing the next... plus it will feel better to clear one hurdle at a time.

The dell I had, had easy access to everything, although at first glance it wasn't evident what would easily move or swing out of the way...

Get a paintbrush (natural bristles) and vacuum cleaner for when you open it, the quantity of dust will astound you. Sometimes a toothbrush will help too.

[Tonedeaf]

Double check your documentation that came with your computer. Not all RAM is the same. I believe Dell uses DDRII. If you install the wrong memeory, you will hose the computer.
Oh yea, and ground yourself from static discharge.

[rulerboyz]

In the past whenever I wanted to perform mods or upgrades on a specific computer I would do a google search and find a discussion group where people who had already done what I was planning to do explained how their upgrades went and made recommendations on what parts worked, which ones to avoid and what actually worked for them in practise (rather than in theory). So you can do a google search using the model of your computer or perhaps motherboard model number. It is the motherboard which determines what is and what is not going to work for your upgrades. Learn as much as you can about the motherboard and you will be golden.

[jimmymagick]

"whenever I wanted to perform mods or upgrades on a specific computer I would do a google search and find a discussion group"

That's a great call. I felt fairly confident about the RAM from Crucial because I let their program scan my computer to see what I needed. But I double checked in a google group and found that Crucial did send me the right ram.

(I did find that most are the posters are fairly consistent in their praise of Crucial.)

Nothing on adding a DVD drive but I did find directions for my computer at Dell.

Thanks.

[rulerboyz]

I can't see why you would have problems installing a DVD drive. You are upgrading to DVD burner, so it should just be a matter of plug and play with Windows XP. It should be a snap. The instructions manual for your computer should actually have a diagram showing you which ribbon you need to connect to your new DVD drive.

You may also want to look into installing the latest version of the bios for your motherboard. I'm not sure how easy it is to do on your computer, but on my ASUS motherboard you can do it online with the click of a button.

[AgentWinchester]

Just a tip for next time:

Newegg.com is the best place I have found to buy this stuff. And most of their stuff is better than Dell's OEM or anything you'll get at CompUSA/Circuit city, usually at lower prices. I suggest Lite-on drives, they're priced right, and came highly recommended when I considered buying a new CD burner.

This stuff is really easy to deal with now, and should be cake. Good luck!

[jimmymagick]

Well, maybe not but I think I've got everything okay. And of course, I couldn't have done it without the help of all you guys.

Hardest stuff was snapping the RAM in (afraid of breaking it) and surprisingly, getting the front cover off the Dell. As always, it was hard to get the appropriate cables to stretch far enough so I could plug them in.

And of course, the thing was filthy. Glad I picked up an extra can of compressed air.

I did change ide ata/atapi controller to "DMA if available"

I ran the devices as cable select because I didn't want to pull my old ROM drive to find the settings. (cable select is what Dell recommends.)

RAM was recognized without any problem. (Again, I recommend Crucial. Price was comparable or cheaper than any other sources I saw and the computer scanner worked well.)

Scott, I printed out all your notes before I started and you say to run currrent ROM and new DVD on secondary on secondary IDE.

If it's not too much trouble, how would I do that.

Again, thanks everybody.

[SPL db]

You'll need your manual (or it could be on the system board as well) to find the primary
and secondary IDE channels (these would be where the flat ribbon cables connect to
on the system board).

The two ROM drives should be on the secondary channel together (there should be two
device connectors on the ribbon cable), while the HDD should be on the primary channel.

Chances are, the HDD was already on the primary and the current ROM drive was on the
secondary... if you added the new drive on the same cable as the currnet ROM drive, you
have already done this.

Congrats! Notice any improvement? :naughty:

Scott

[jimmymagick]

From what I can tell, it looks like you're right and I'm set up properly.

As far as improvement, Microsoft Money is noticeably faster, as is Nikon Capture (the picture editing program for my Nikon SLR).

Now I can't wait to get to the store and pick-up the proper CD-R's so I can see what LightScribe looks like.