View Full Version : Best vintage speaker option for Rock, Blues, Jazz?


64JAZZBASS
07-06-2006, 08:16 AM
I'm a newbie here so I'd appreciate any advice you all can give. I recently resurrected a McIntosh 240 + C-20 preamp combination and listen mostly to rock, blues, jazz, and some classical. My friend has kindly lent me a set of AR3s and Large Advents to try with my set-up and they both sound great, but I "think" I want bigger sound (more low mids and bass). Next we're going to try a JBL D130 set-up with horn, but I'm concerned about the size for the room it's in. Can anyone recommend something that may fit the bill but be a bit smaller? I was thinking Klipsch Heresy or Cornwall, but as I said before, I am new to vintage speakers for the most part. I'm open to suggestion beyond these speakers. Thanks!

Ken

jguzman21
07-06-2006, 09:05 AM
Welcome Ken!

Of the three speakers you listed and what you want from a speaker I would go for the Cornwall. The Heresy and the JBL D130 won't come close to the bass of a Cornwall.

-j

Brian
07-06-2006, 12:02 PM
You won't find a speake that goes lower than the AR3a without getting into a BIG cabinet. The MC240 with them would be a nice mate for classical and jazz but will fall short on rock it the music is in the range you mentioned as wanting more of since the 240 with them will sound "flabby" and slow. Likewise with the Advents.

Another way to go is to try out the ARs with a MC2100 or 2200. Both have decent voicing for tube lovers but with more power will help the 3s sing.

The Klipsch will deliver more spl but the bass even with the Cornwalls will not go as deep though the 240 with them may provide more control and speed. The Heresy is not a speaker for bass lovers it really favors classical, jazz and vocals but anything with deep bass, it is not the way to go.

Not familiar with the JBLs.

cubdog
07-06-2006, 12:04 PM
JBL L-96 would do well with all those types of music. Plus they are affordable.

cubdog

Vitopanch
07-06-2006, 12:11 PM
Welcome Ken,
There is an endless amount of suggestions no doubt. Available cash, room size, how fast do you want to fill this need, and all of that enter into the equation. Any loudspeaker of quality of course, with a passive radiator, such as JBL L150 will certainly fill your need for good strong REAL BASS without a giant cabinet. Loudspeakers with Watkins woofers such as in Infinities also do the trick quite well. Check these out if you are so inclined; http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/index.htm.

Many more good suggestions will be forthcoming from other members. again, welcome to AK.
Vito

mhardy6647
07-06-2006, 02:29 PM
Altec 604B's or C's in an appropriate enclosure or Quad ESL-57's. Either should be stunning, although quite different, with an MC-240.

If you want to go new, I'd give serious consideration to a pair of Edgarhorn Titans & Seismic subwoofer.

pmsummer
07-06-2006, 02:44 PM
Of the choices you list, I suggest the Cornwalls (but size is a factor). The new Heresy III's have a much improved bottom, and size isn''t a factor.

You might also try "stacking" the Advents (two pair). Still pretty darned impressive.

Billfort
07-06-2006, 03:04 PM
Welcome to AK Ken.

What size is your room and what is your available budget? I was going to suggest a few things but these 2 factors are all important.

64JAZZBASS
07-06-2006, 05:15 PM
Hi,
The rooms about 13' x 15' and I'd like to do it for as little money as possible. Hopefully under $500...more than that and I'll have some 'splainin' to do. ;)

Ken

CarlV
07-06-2006, 05:36 PM
I use horn type JBL's with all my vintage McIntosh gear (lots:) ) and wouldn't have it any other way. But the nicer horns are what they sound best with. Your budget @ 500. means Klipsch. Heresy's would be less, Cornwalls a bit more.
I would strongly suggest Cornwalls for sound and room size until you can move up from there. They are an easy sell too when time comes.


Carl

BULLWINKLE
07-06-2006, 06:32 PM
Could consider Heresies and a seperate subwoofer.

64JAZZBASS
07-06-2006, 07:29 PM
I use horn type JBL's with all my vintage McIntosh gear (lots:) ) and wouldn't have it any other way. But the nicer horns are what they sound best with. Your budget @ 500. means Klipsch. Heresy's would be less, Cornwalls a bit more.
I would strongly suggest Cornwalls for sound and room size until you can move up from there. They are an easy sell too when time comes.
Carl

$500 is pretty random number. If there's a considerable improvement above $500, I am open to it. I've spent a lot more on music gear that I would use a lot less. All I meant is that I'd prefer to stay within a budget...but I'm curious about the JBL configurations. Is there a website where I can learn more about the JBL options? Thanks!

mhardy6647
07-06-2006, 07:40 PM
well, there's www.lansingheritage.org :-)

RAzOR
07-07-2006, 01:10 AM
For $500, I'd look for an Infinity RS series from the 80s. You can easily get into a box with perfectly clean dual acoustic suspension bass drivers with the excellent Polydome series mids and EMIT type ribbon tweeters. They will handle between 130 and 200W or more easily with tight bass down to the 30Hz range. They aren't too hard to find. Vitopanch's link is THE place to go for Infinity research.

Good luck!!!

Mark W.
07-07-2006, 07:23 AM
HPM-100 Pioneer buy four stacked if you need more then that your out of my league

Grey.Coupe
07-07-2006, 07:10 PM
Well, for the planned room, Cornwalls will be excessive from the standpoint of their footprint, unless you are willing to have them dominate the room. Great vintage speakers, though. Mine are from 1982, and with new crossovers this year, sound as good as new.

Any of the old "large bookshelf" genre would be great vintage speakers for your set up...

Early 1970's offered some great speakers. Large Advents, any of several ARs, JBLs, Dynaco A-25s or A-35s can easily be had and with some searching effort, easily within your price range. The Heresy speaker mentioned appeals to many. There were recently a pair of Dynaco A-50s on e bay, if you are an auction type, but they start to be too large for your room. These speakers have distinct personalities and need to be auditioned to identify which best suit your tastes.

64JAZZBASS
07-17-2006, 03:46 PM
Well, my friend brought over another pair of speakers to test. This time they were a pair of JBL L-100s. I think these are more in the ballpark of what I've been looking for. Problem is that the cabs are somewhat dinged cosmetically (6/10 condition) with veneer chipping off and they are missing the grills.

They sound great, but now I've got to track down or build a grill...I don't want to obsess about this forever...but the repro grills are absurdly priced, aren't they? The search continues!

dnewma04
07-17-2006, 04:41 PM
Hello Ken, the best Jazz/blues/whatever format, is the speakers that best matches your rooms acoustics. In other words, we can give you a shitload of speakers as recomendations, but without some experience in similar environments, it would be almost impossible to give you any usable recommendations. Describe your room, expected speaker placement, size constraints, budget, what you plan to use for power, listening levels, and anything else you deam important. The musical genre is really unimportant in the big picture.

onepixel
07-17-2006, 05:02 PM
JBL-100s are classics and sought out after especially in good condition. If you liked them try the ADS L-810 or L-710s. They are about the same size, sounds wonderful with jazz and under your budget of $500.

Cheers

bully
07-17-2006, 05:12 PM
If you liked the JBL L100, you owe it to yourself to consider the HPM series from Pioneer--especially the HPM-900.

64JAZZBASS
07-17-2006, 07:21 PM
Hello Ken, the best Jazz/blues/whatever format, is the speakers that best matches your rooms acoustics. In other words, we can give you a shitload of speakers as recomendations, but without some experience in similar environments, it would be almost impossible to give you any usable recommendations. Describe your room, expected speaker placement, size constraints, budget, what you plan to use for power, listening levels, and anything else you deam important. The musical genre is really unimportant in the big picture.

Hi, I've covered some this already, but am happy to again:
- Room is 13' x 16' or so;
-Speakers 6-10' apart;
- Powered by Mac 240 +Mac C-20 preamp;
- Size? L100 is about right...give or take;
- Listening level: All levels...mostly late evening low to mid levels; then mid-high on weekend days.
- Budget: For 2006 under $500; For 2007, under $800.

Thanks,
Ken

dnewma04
07-17-2006, 07:34 PM
Whoops, i saw the original post with some of the info, but missed the later reply.

edgewound
07-17-2006, 07:37 PM
A great value currently would be a pair of JBL 4412.
Roughly the same size as L100's, and being pro studio monitors they are pretty accurate.

Most importantly...though not cheap...factory repair parts are readily available.

Wornears
07-17-2006, 10:16 PM
For your conditions, check out the AR-91, IMHO they are superior in bass control and midrange balance to the JBL L-100 (I have a pair of L-36, and have heard the L-100 many times), and they can be had in the $250 range or much less. A bargain for the sonics you get -- shipping is not cheap because they are heavy.

They are a sealed 3-way (12-inch wofer, domed mid and tweeter -- same tweet as in the amazing AR-9), 4 ohm, and really start to jump with the watts pushed at them. I run mine with a Carver 1.5 amp and Yamaha C-60 pre, and listen to rock, jazz, blues, reggae (bass!), and classical on them.

64JAZZBASS
07-18-2006, 01:05 PM
A great value currently would be a pair of JBL 4412.
Roughly the same size as L100's, and being pro studio monitors they are pretty accurate.

Most importantly...though not cheap...factory repair parts are readily available.

Is it possible to explain the sonic differences compared to the L100s...since that's what I have as baseline now.

Thanks!

hifi_nut
07-18-2006, 01:21 PM
Altec 604B's or C's in an appropriate enclosure or Quad ESL-57's. Either should be stunning, although quite different, with an MC-240.

If you want to go new, I'd give serious consideration to a pair of Edgarhorn Titans & Seismic subwoofer.


Good grief.
Im listening to my twin soul. The only lacking recommendation in my book would be Tannoy Westminster Royals.

Jorge

Billfort
07-18-2006, 03:55 PM
I am mostly in agreement with mhardy and Jorge except I feel a 13' x 15' room is bordering on too small for a full tilt horn system like Edgar Titans. I used Altec 19's in a room about that size which was ok but I felt they where MUCH better in a larger space where you could get back away from them - more coherent and less of a sense of individual drivers. I do like Quads but they wouldn't be my choice for great rock speakers.

I've become a big fan of co-incident/concentric/duplex (whatever the official brand term) drivers that combine a hi-efficiency 15" woofer and a centrally mounted compression driver horn for smallish or regular sized listening rooms. $500 may be a real challenge but I'd look for Altec 604's (my experience is that E's and G's are the ticket) or Tannoys. I think any of these would do great with rock/blues/jazz with the Tannoys maybe a touch more accurate and refined and the Altecs more...Altec. :)

My preference is the Altec flavor but they all have the ability to combine the imaging and detail strengths of a point-source with the dynamics and sense of effortlessness of high-efficiency partial horns in a package that works when you have to listen fairly near-field. Another very big advantage for me is that the efficiency opens up the option of tubes - even low power tubes - a path that has let me enjoy blues and jazz at a whole different level.

edgewound
07-18-2006, 03:56 PM
Is it possible to explain the sonic differences compared to the L100s...since that's what I have as baseline now.

Thanks!

Sure...

The 4412 has a titanium dome tweeter 035ti, 052ti in the 4412A that reaches to 20kHz and beyond...sounds like Buzz Lightyear wrote that...

The L100 goes to about 15kHz with the LE25, LE25-2.

Freq response on the factory Tech manual is 45-20kHz +/- 2dB for 4412,
30-30kHz +/- 10dB for the 4412A

4412 has a walnut veneer, 4412A is a charcoal vinyl veneer...to keep the costs down.

In all...the 4412 is a much more capable system as far a s accuracy is concerned. Better drivers and a more sophisticated crossover network.

The only drawback is the 4412 has a 128H-1 woofer with foam surround that deteriorates with time, but is one of the best 3" voice coil 12's they have ever produced.

The L100(4311 pro equivalent) uses the 123A-3 which is very durable but tends to be forward sound and can be a bit boomy....it was voiced to sound like an Altec 604 Monitor that was popular at the time.

The first generation of L100 used LE20, LE5-2 mid and 123A-1 woofer

Hope this helps.