Bi-Wire Cables

[jcmusic]

Are there any advantages or disadvantages to using a set of these cables in a full range set up?

[GaryP]

A full range set up? Is that a 5.1 channel set up?

[Negotiableterms]

You've asked one of the most controversial questions in audio.

I've tried one set of biwires (Tributaries SP-4 biwire) and found that it did make a difference in the sound, and that difference did seem an improvement.

What I haven't done is spend the same amount of money on better non-biwire cable to see if I get the same result, less, or more. So, I'm unable to conclude that bi-wiring, in and of itself, is a wonderful thing. Good cables, though, do give you better sound, IMHO, but I'm still not gonna buy any Valhalla.

[Rob Babcock]

I'm "cable agnostic"- my experience has shown me no differences, but I certainly haven't performed exhaustive testing. That said I do biwire, mostly because I no longer have the jumpers for my speakers and they all have 4 terminals each. So it's bi-wire or make new jumpers.

[Quadman]

For a while Dad and I both had exactly the same set-up: Arcam CD73T, A65+, Quad 11Ls, QED Silver Anniversary, QED Q-NECT. Only difference was, I paid for the Silver Anniversary Bi-wire and Dad went for domestic harmony with the single wire version. To be completely honest, the difference was absolutely negligible and I was left feeling like I should have spent less on the single wire version.

Buying high quality cables as opposed to cheap ones, however, is an absolutely different matter - it really does make a difference IMO. I find Monster and QED to be about the best.

[Duffinator]

For a while Dad and I both had exactly the same set-up: Arcam CD73T, A65+, Quad 11Ls, QED Silver Anniversary, QED Q-NECT. Only difference was, I paid for the Silver Anniversary Bi-wire and Dad went for domestic harmony with the single wire version. To be completely honest, the difference was absolutely negligible and I was left feeling like I should have spent less on the single wire version.

Buying high quality cables as opposed to cheap ones, however, is an absolutely different matter - it really does make a difference IMO. I find Monster and QED to be about the best.While I'm in complete agreement on your first point I question your second. Unless by high quality you mean some high quality Belden 12 gauge for .30/ft.

If you want to try bi-wiring, which I think is a waste of time and money and yes I've done it before, go to home depot and buy some 12 gauge wire and try it before you spend a fortune on some esoteric high dollar bi-wire setup and then judge for yourself.

[hifi_nut]

I´ve tried bi-wiring on different speakers, all with insignificant, if any, discernible differences. But then again I´m no Golden-ear.

Now bi-amplifying, in its several different forms, is an altogether different act.

Jorge

[Rob Babcock]

I´ve tried bi-wiring on different speakers, all with insignificant, if any, discernible differences. But then again I´m no Golden-ear.

Now bi-amplifying, in its several different forms, is an altogether different act.

Jorge

I agree. Bi-amping yeilds much, much more drastic gains that bi-wiring.

[wineslob]

IMO the speakers you use, read: ability to reslove micro-detail, will determine your own ability to hear the differences. Just read the analog IC or the speaker wire reviews and see the different results.

[Quadman]

Can see where you are coming from wineslob, but if the difference is barely audible using top notch speakers like the Quad 11Ls, is it really a difference worth worrying about?

Okay, so the very most expensive speakers like Martin Logans and such like might resolve so much detail that the difference is more obvious but how many AKers can afford those sort of prices????

Plus, reviews mean nothing if a component, cable or anything else doesn't work or sound better in your own system.... I think the AKers are here because they don't take reviews THAT seriously and prefer to go with their own findings...

[GaryP]

I agree with Wineslob - it's based on the speakers.

And the wire.

And the amp.

And the wires you use.

It's always like this, isn't it? If someone sez there is a difference, I can go to their place and verify they are right. And if someone sez there is NOT a difference, I can go over to their place and verify that they are right.

My bi-wired speakers have a copper wire and a silver wire. Big difference from just using one or the other!

[wineslob]

I agree with Wineslob - it's based on the speakers.

And the wire.
And the amp.

And the wires you use.

It's always like this, isn't it? If someone sez there is a difference, I can go to their place and verify they are right. And if someone sez there is NOT a difference, I can go over to their place and verify that they are right.

My bi-wired speakers have a copper wire and a silver wire. Big difference from just using one or the other!


Thats why I try to go to other "audiophile's" homes to hear their systems. Many times it is EASY to hear differences and, yes, come to a consensus. Recently I was able to compare CD players, all considered "A" rated. The differences were astounding! No "objectiveness" required. We came to the consensus that one particular player pounded the others. The same can be said of cables. BTW it was through Apogee Scintilla's.

[MannyE]

I'm on the other "cheap" side of this debate. Bi-wiring to me yields no better results than the equivalent increase in AWG. I did notice a SIGNIFICANT increase in quality when I went from lampcord to 12AWG speaker wire from Home Depot.

I have since had a chance to try Monster (a little more expensive) and Transparent ( MUCH more expensive) without noticing any significant differences.

Bi -amping is awesome and in my case made for a tighter, "easier" sound from my DefTechs (which almost seem engineered with bi-amping in mind) but I had to give the amps back and have since gone back to jumpers, one wire, and one amp... It's cool, but it wuld cost me over a thousand bucks to bi-amp and it's not worth that much to me.

So try bi-wiring, maybe you'll like it, but keep an open mind. The debate will continue with one side saying it can hear the differences and the other guys are deaf and the another side thinking they are crazy and hearing the money they spent. I say...if you can hear the difference and it makes you happy, there's a bunch of guys at Cardas that will gleefully take your money!

[Bigerik]

The idea behind bi-wiring is controlling back-emf. The thinking is that the movement of voice coil to the magnet makes for a generator effect that creates a current that is sent backwards through through the wires. Insead of being sent back to the other driver through the crossover, the back emf is sent back to the amp which effectively filters it out before it can effect the sound of the other driver.
Did not explain that very well (must be tired), but I know I have some good articles on it. Will try to post more tonight.
Thanks
Erik

[Duffinator]

The idea behind bi-wiring is controlling back-emf. The thinking is that the movement of voice coil to the magnet makes for a generator effect that creates a current that is sent backwards through through the wires. Insead of being sent back to the other driver through the crossover, the back emf is sent back to the amp which effectively filters it out before it can effect the sound of the other driver.I always thought the idea of bi-wiring was so the cable manufacturers could sell more cable. :nono:

So in the above scenario, who tells the emf's which cable is bringing the signal to the speakers and which one is going back to the amp? :scratch2:

[Bigerik]

I always thought the idea of bi-wiring was so the cable manufacturers could sell more cable. :nono:

So in the above scenario, who tells the emf's which cable is bringing the signal to the speakers and which one is going back to the amp? :scratch2:

Back EMF is going back thru both sets of wires. BIg difference is that they can't get to the other driver and muddy the sound. The only direct connection between the woofer and the tweeter is the amplifier.

[MannyE]

Back EMF is going back thru both sets of wires. BIg difference is that they can't get to the other driver and muddy the sound. The only direct connection between the woofer and the tweeter is the amplifier.

Huh? :scratch2: I'm a little lost...

I can't help but think this sounds like the explanations in a Cardas catalog.

No disrespect intended...I really mean that!

[Rob Babcock]

I've heard the ol' "back EMF" story before- indeed, I'm sure I've repeated it myself. But I've never seen a shred of corroboration from any engineering source. If it helps you sleep better at night bi-wire your speakers (as I have admitted to doing). Otherwise don't fret over your wires & cables.

[Bigerik]

Huh? :scratch2: I'm a little lost...

I can't help but think this sounds like the explanations in a Cardas catalog.

No disrespect intended...I really mean that!

Hey, just passing on what I have read about the issue. It's something I would try myself, but don't have any bi-wirable speakers.
And who says Cardas isn't right? :)

[MannyE]

And who says Cardas isn't right? :)

Ummmm science? lol