green or black magic marker!?!?

[midfi]

a friend of mine mentioned something about taking a magic marker and drawing around the edge of my cd's and it will make them sound better :sigh: . Have I been under a rock or is he on the rock? :screwy: I've tried to wrap my head around this one to no avail. If it worked that good and simple would'nt the manufacturers make the edges black or green during the pressing? What am I missing??? :confused:

[jonman]

There was a lot of post on this a while back. I tried it and it made no difference. Probably something dreamed up by someone selling green markers

[teenytinydik]

If you think it will/might make an improvement is sound quality then it will indeed do so. :bs:

[Paul C]

This is Audio BS that goes back to the very early days of music CD. The theory was that red laser light reflecting around in the plastic would somehow cause distortion. The green coloring on the edge was supposed to absorb the red reflections.

Or so it went in theory.

File this one away with many of the other snake oils being sold to audio enthusiasts... wood volume knobs, cinder blocks stacked on top of amplifiers (I never did figure out the theory on these), little thingies to hold speaker cables off the floor, felt dots on the walls (?), biwiring (not biamping, which is legit), and more.

[theodoric]

Not a Magic Marker - those are petroleum-based. You want a water-based marker.

The Uni Posca PC-5M in green is apparently the hot ticket for five bucks or so. I bought a box of them and have heard a positive difference.

[midfi]

You are probably right Paul C. I'll file that one with bi-wiring also. Wood volume knobs??!!?? You got me with that one! :-)

[Kasra]

Wood knobs? That's as crazy as contact cleaner.
Flame war, commence.

[ozmoid]

What's contact cleaner? :scratch2:

[Negotiableterms]

As a counterpoint, I picked up a subwoofer for Theo a while back, and as a thank-you, he sent me a pair of the Uni Posca PC-5M in green (thanks again, Theo!). A bit of experimenting later, here's what I found:

On a new Mc MCD-201, which reads the disk 4x and error-corrects the data before sending it on to the DAC, I could hear no difference at all.

On an old Sony X77ES, I could hear a difference, and the marker did seem to help a little. Nothing major.

Do I understand this? No. Am I confident of my findings? Yes, as I was not alone in hearing the difference, and my audience didn't know what they were listening for, and no, because I only had 4 duplicate CDs that I could use to compare.

This kind of thing is EXACTLY what Thinking Out Loud is designed to explore, without derision of anyone's view, and with my profound apologies to the mods of both forums, it's headed over there now!

[GaryP]

I have heard about this - the green marker trick works well on older / more inexpensive CD players but has no effect on expensive CD players.

I should pull my old (10 years old!) Pioneer back from my sister's place and do some experiments.

...wood volume knobs, cinder blocks stacked on top of amplifiers (I never did figure out the theory on these), little thingies to hold speaker cables off the floor, felt dots on the walls (?), biwiring (not biamping, which is legit), and more.

The following are my opinions / experiences:
Wooden knobs: Don't know. Vibration, maybe?
Cinder blocks: reduces vibration. I know someone who has his heavy amp over his CD player. It does sound better! :yes:
Cable raisers (stuff to hold your speaker cables off the floor): reduces static electricity from the carpet. Personally, I've never tried this. Actually I can't - the speaker cables are under the floor (necessity).
Felt dots on the walls: I believe this would act like a bass trap. Not really sure, though.
Bi-wiring: Works for me! I have my speakers bi-wires with copper and silver wires - the best of both worlds. :)

So, IMHO, none of this is "BS". Instead, it depends entirely on your system and room.

[theodoric]

Regarding the green pen, I echo Negotiableterms' findings: When I use it with pro mastering gear, which uses SOTA jitter reduction and clock-recovery circuits, there is no difference using the pen.

However, when I use it with a standard CD transport (actually a LaserDisc player), where there is no data buffer, reclocking, or anything like that, where the data is pulled directly from the disc and output in real time, there is a real, audible improvement with the pen.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the wood volume knobs: I seem to recall something that Pioneer put out that claimed that a solid aluminum volume knob sounded better than a hollow one. I'll see if I can dig it out and post it here. The kicker with that, of course, is that the solid aluminum volume knob was included in the price of the preamp, and not a $500 add-on item, as is the magical wooden knob.

Regarding the cable stands: I think the argument might have some validity if the cables weren't surrounded by insulating dielectric. Or maybe there is a difference if one has a floor covered in acrylic shag carpet (in which case, you've got a bigger problem than static electricity affecting your speaker cables, IMHO).

[JoeESP9]

Has anyone tried using an old cut down 5 1/4 floppy disk as a mat on top of a CD. I heard about this a while ago. It seems to make a difference to the good especially on CD-R's. :dunno:

[GaryP]

Sounds like the "double CD" trick. That's when you put in two discs in the transport and press play. Only the lower disc is read and plays, of course. I guess the heavier "disc" makes the transport more stable or something. After all, the CD is spinning pretty fast!

I've never been brave enough to try it...

[GaryP]

Regarding the cable stands: I think the argument might have some validity if the cables weren't surrounded by insulating dielectric. Or maybe there is a difference if one has a floor covered in acrylic shag carpet (in which case, you've got a bigger problem than static electricity affecting your speaker cables, IMHO).

Just curious - what would the bigger problem than static electricity be?

The only thing I can think of (off the top of my head) is a decoration faux pas.

:D

[phorensic]

Sounds like the "double CD" trick. That's when you put in two discs in the transport and press play. Only the lower disc is read and plays, of course. I guess the heavier "disc" makes the transport more stable or something. After all, the CD is spinning pretty fast!

I've never been brave enough to try it...

Well, when you try this on a computer cd-rom the discs spin independantly of each other and cause all kinds of scratches. Of course, this is because the drive spins them up to full speed (40-52X or so) right away. A transport should only spin to 2X max (for buffering/skip protection) I would think. I wouldn't want to try it, though, because every time I've heard it happen on a computer I cringe. I guess trying two burned CD's can't hurt.

[GaryP]

Unless they fly apart and scratch the lens or something.... eek! But if it's 2X speed it shouldn't be too bad.

I guess.

Maybe.

[theodoric]

Just curious - what would the bigger problem than static electricity be?
The only thing I can think of (off the top of my head) is a decoration faux pas.Bingo.

[GaryP]

Bingo.

:lmao:

Of course you're supposed to listen to music in the dark. Especially if you still have shag carpeting! :yes:

[JoeESP9]

I've never tried it on any of my computers. It does make a difference on my Marantz CD63 SE. My Marantz didn't like it when I tried 2 CD's in the tray at once. The cut down 5 1/4 Floppy Disk (magnetic portion only) has not been a problem. :smoke:

[MannyE]

The green marker thing is still alive? I thought this had gone the way of the bi-wire...lol But not to deride anyone's opinion, or actual experience, I never heard a difference. What gets my goat about tweaks is when a real and effective tweak is used by shysters to rip off unsuspecting audiophiles.

Wooden volume knobs...phhht. If they do indeed work (or solid aluminum) should be 10 bucks, and not any more... they would probably sell millions of 'em! I'm sure they LOOK nice...

Those stupid things to raise the cables off the ground... maybe there's a point to them, but not for 100 bucks.... 4 dollars for four... I'm sure I would buy a set just to try it!

Weighted plates to dampen vibrations?... sure! but not at 125 a pop...I can get the cut-outs from sinks at my local granite supplier for just a few dollars!

Silver grease to enhance contacts on ICs and tube connections? Let's do it! but not for 80 bucks... (ask me about this one... I KNOW)

The green marker mentioned is not a 100 dollar tweak, so, why not try it? For a few bucks you too can be on the esoteric cutting edge of mystic tweakdom! And then if you hear a difference, you are a bona-fide golden ear! Yay for you! Run out and get a 300 buck set of spike feet!

[Urizen]

Has anyone tried using an old cut down 5 1/4 floppy disk as a mat on top of a CD. I heard about this a while ago. It seems to make a difference to the good especially on CD-R's. :dunno:

I have not tried the floppy tweak, however, I did purchase an accessory for my Ah! Super Njoe Tjoeb 4000. A formed rubber mat called the DeMat, from Ah! It is formed so that the mat fits around the edge of the CD. It failed miserably with my 4000. The player has a hard time reading discs when the mat is installed.

However, with my Pioneer PD-75, it works perfectly. :thmbsp: I may be mistaken, but I believe that the PD-75 originally had a rubber mat on it's platter. Mine did not come with one, having bought it at thrift. Enter the the DeMat.

Perhaps it helps to dampen the disc motor vibrations, and it may help to reduce laser reflections from bouncing off the silver platter. :dunno:

Whatever, it sounds better with it in place. :music:

YMMV. :D

[Fast_Eddie]

The color marker you use depends on the color of zip cord you use for the speakers. If you use white zip cord, you need a red marker. If you use brown, you need green. If you're foolish enough to use clear zip cord, it won't make any difference.

Ed

[Bigerik]

Lets keep this on topic, guys. If anyone has anything meaningful to add to the discussion, please do so. If you just wanna discuss something you have never heard or tried, please take it elsewhere.
Thanks!

[ozmoid]

It is VERY difficult to evaluate things like the green marker effect, unless you have 2 matching CDP's and duplicate CD's to A/B. When there is too big of a "gap" between the A and the B, it is hard to separate subtle changes from "psychoacoustics".

I have tried the green marker, out of 4 listeners one was positive about the effect, one was negative about the effect, and two were undecided. We only had one CDP, though I did have duplicate CDs.

For my personal experience, I find that the effect is subtle but real. It does not show up audibly on every disc (or even every track) I try.

[PhilMcL]

it's funny, i had never heard of this in an audio context, but it instantly reminded me of a very funny and very true story involving sony and the playstation 2.

Sony made a big deal about how they were putting in crazy copy protection on their games where you wouldn't be able to copy the disks anymore, which people had been doing on their computers. this protection was stored at the very outer edge of the discs, the idea being i guess that that's where disc drives look first, and they would see some code saying "don't even try it" or something like that. but then some genius/idiot/lucky guy discovered that all you had to do was draw a circle around the edge with a black permanent marker and it would work just fine. I always love it when simple, normal things counteract high-falutin technological things. :lmao:

oh for the sake of staying on topic, i bet they... sounded... better... or something...

[ozmoid]

it's funny, i had never heard of this in an audio context, but it instantly reminded me of a very funny and very true story involving sony and the playstation 2.

Sony made a big deal about how they were putting in crazy copy protection on their games where you wouldn't be able to copy the disks anymore, which people had been doing on their computers. this protection was stored at the very outer edge of the discs, the idea being i guess that that's where disc drives look first, and they would see some code saying "don't even try it" or something like that. but then some genius/idiot/lucky guy discovered that all you had to do was draw a circle around the edge with a black permanent marker and it would work just fine. I always love it when simple, normal things counteract high-falutin technological things. :lmao:

oh for the sake of staying on topic, i bet they... sounded... better... or something...Many copy protection schemes can be defeated by applying a little opaque "mask" of tape over the disk area where the info is stored.

[MannyE]

Many copy protection schemes can be defeated by applying a little opaque "mask" of tape over the disk area where the info is stored.


lol...you are correct! Like the recent scandal with the multi-million dollar HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs...turns out capturing each frame of the movie in hi-res was enough to bypass all the high falutin' copy protection! ha ha screw them!

To get hback on topic, however, I think that although it may be fun to post something smart alecky about esoteric tweaks (and yes... I am guilty of it too) this forum is all about taking a good honest look at all these crazy tweaks and giving them a chance... which I will do from now on...

The green marker thing is a great example of a cheap tweak that anyone can try... personally I've never heard a difference with either green or black...

[Fast_Eddie]

Lets keep this on topic, guys. If anyone has anything meaningful to add to the discussion, please do so. If you just wanna discuss something you have never heard or tried, please take it elsewhere.
Thanks!

I say this with as much respect as I can- I'm not sure I agree with the implication of what you're saying here. Not fighting or slinging barbs here. There are a world of people who make a living dreaming up products that appeal more to the emotion than fact. Some are down right silly. There are a lot of products in the world that I have never used but have surmized a pretty keen understanding of. I don't need to go to a bar and order a Bud to see if I will be over run by hot women. I've never had a McGriddle, but I know I'm not lovin it. I've never bought the kit to make a million investing in real estate with no money down, but I'm pretty sure I'm not missing much.

I think it's pretty smart to be more than a little cynical about things that sound a bit outlandish. The responsability is on the advertiser to convience me that their product is worth my time, not the other way around. Furthermore, if a product is really great, often times the folks who have tried it will chime in and say "hey, wait a minute." Look at AK- there are a fair number of folks who think interconnects don't matter. But you sure do see a lot of posts from folks who say they do! That gives me something to think about, not just unfounded advertising claims.

Please, I mean no disrespect. I'm just stating a point of view. There seems to be an opinion being expressed in a couple of threads right now that no one can question an advertising claim without trying the product. I'm just pointing out that we all do it every day. Not only do we do it, but it's a wise thing to do. I sure do teach my kids that they don't need to try every cereal or toy they see a comercial for to find out it's not as great as they made it out to be.

Final thought- there is validity to both sides of the arguement. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

If I'm out of line, just say the word. Really, just trying to express an opinion that I think everyone should think about.

Take care,

Ed

[Bigerik]

I say this with as much respect as I can- I'm not sure I agree with the implication of what you're saying here. Not fighting or slinging barbs here. There are a world of people who make a living dreaming up products that appeal more to the emotion than fact. Some are down right silly. There are a lot of products in the world that I have never used but have surmized a pretty keen understanding of. I don't need to go to a bar and order a Bud to see if I will be over run by hot women. I've never had a McGriddle, but I know I'm not lovin it. I've never bought the kit to make a million investing in real estate with no money down, but I'm pretty sure I'm not missing much.

I think it's pretty smart to be more than a little cynical about things that sound a bit outlandish. The responsability is on the advertiser to convience me that their product is worth my time, not the other way around. Furthermore, if a product is really great, often times the folks who have tried it will chime in and say "hey, wait a minute." Look at AK- there are a fair number of folks who think interconnects don't matter. But you sure do see a lot of posts from folks who say they do! That gives me something to think about, not just unfounded advertising claims.

Please, I mean no disrespect. I'm just stating a point of view. There seems to be an opinion being expressed in a couple of threads right now that no one can question an advertising claim without trying the product. I'm just pointing out that we all do it every day. Not only do we do it, but it's a wise thing to do. I sure do teach my kids that they don't need to try every cereal or toy they see a comercial for to find out it's not as great as they made it out to be.

Final thought- there is validity to both sides of the arguement. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

If I'm out of line, just say the word. Really, just trying to express an opinion that I think everyone should think about.

Take care,

Ed

Hi Ed
You are not out of line for asking what you are asking. Your thoughts are fair and well argued.
However, please keep in mind the point behind this forum. The idea behind this was to create a space that was open for people to discuss cables, tweaks, etc without having to be told they are an idiot for hearing whatever they are hearing.
Cable and tweak discussions have always been a flashpoint in almost every discussion forum on AK or any other online forum. Invariably, whenever a discussion has turned to cables, or wires or tweaks of any kind, a group will start chiming in about how people cannot possibly be hearing what they are hearing because this or that tweak can't possibly work, etc etc.
This is exactly what we are trying to avoid in TOL. We are trying to create a space where people are free to discuss what they hear. Ask questions about weird tweaks without being made to feel like an idiot for doing so. If in the course of doing this, some discussion gets stifled, then that might happen.
But we have set up a test program to let people actually try wires, etc in their own homes. By letting people actually try wires, cables, etc, we open up a whole new area of discussion. For good or for bad, I will not stop anyone from saying what they hear or don't hear. If they try a product and it doesn't work or sounds worse than what they have, so be it. They will state their findings and thoughts and it will be discussed from there. We are actually going past the advertising claims and we are creating a body of relatively unbiased reviews by average users running a whole gamut of systems.
If this were the only place in the online world where advertising claims can be questioned, then I can see your point. But we are trying to do something a little different here. I invite you to sign up for the cable trials. Try them in your system. Post your results, good or bad.
There is much more coming. I will be posting a whole new series of review material in the coming days. Stayed tuned. We are gonna be in for LOT of fun!

[House de Kris]

OK, I've been convinced to post my personal opinion of the green pen topic, now knowing full well I'm free to have such opinions. BTW, I don't think there is a thing wrong with people posting comments like, "how could such-and-such possibly make any difference at all? How can those guys be asking for cold hard currency for this stuff?" But, when it gets to the point of people making up silly satire just for the sake of being noted for their comedy, is when it gets a bit tiring. It may indeed be a legit phenomena that they are lambasting. Perhaps, eventually, they may learn through their own experiments that they were making fools of themselves, but then again, that may never happen either.

You see, I too used to make public spectacles of what I thought were shysters out for a quick buck. Green pens being one of my targets since the claimed method of affecting the audio was beyond reasonable. I felt I was qualified to make such judgments without validation since, in general, I am one major Type-A analytical bastard. Via a lengthy story that needn’t be gone into here, I was lucky enough to get what we in the engineering world would call a “nut-case audiophile” to invite me to his house for tunes and audio tweaks. Believe me, as I was heading towards his house, I was already practicing how to tell him what he claimed to hear couldn’t be there in as gentle a form as possible. I was that convinced.

Luckily, he had a copy of the same Tori Amos CD I had brought along left over from a previous friend’s visit (of course he wouldn’t own such rubbish, he was, after all, an audiophile). So we green penned one of them (mine), and left the other untreated. He proceeded to stick the discs in one after the other, each time telling me which was which. Each time we played the same song, “Baker Baker,” and after a short while, I let him know I only needed to hear the first few seconds of each. Well, gosh darn if I wasn’t completely amazed because I thought that I could actually hear a difference between treated and untreated. Fearing I was “just hearing what I wanted to hear” because he was identifying each one, I had him stick in the discs at random without telling me which was which. After a while, I asked what was the one I was hearing right then. After that, I told him to randomly choose them, don’t make any sound, I’ll stare straight down at the floor, and I will identify which is which. Out of a small sampling of eight tries, I only missed once, and I was internally pretty sure I was going to be wrong on that one.

How did I do it? Actually, I could tell super easy in less than one second. Well, to be exact, I could tell when listening to only the first second of the Tori Amos song “Baker Baker.” Couldn’t pull this stunt off as easily with most other tracks. If you’ve ever heard “Baker Baker” you know that there is, essentially, no sound in the first second. This is the time where Tori inhales in preparation to make that first percussive ‘B’ of the word “Baker.” What I listened to was the coherence of a single sound source mid-way between the speakers. The untreated disc was exact and precise. The treated disc was a lot more airy and diffused. Pin-point precision beats out diffused haze in my book, so in my own personal opinion, the green pen actually degrades the performance of a CD. Now, I can certainly understand how a person who likes and/or prefers the sound of analog recording medium would give the green pen the nod over an untreated CD.

Regardless of how it is judged (good or bad) the startling thing I learned on that visit was that the green pen actually had an effect. No need to give the guy the ‘gentler kinder’ speech I was preparing, the thing actually does something. In fact, I only told him of my surprise I could identify it so easily. He jumped to the conclusion that if I was able to hear a difference, then the green pen must be an improvement. Since that’s what he wanted to believe, I left him with that thought. No need to argue with him that the pen actually destroyed one of digital’s many advantages over analog.

I was so flabbergasted by the discovery that treating a disc could have an impact on the sound, that I have then spent the many years subsequent trying to learn as much as possible about how seemingly innocuous things could alter digital audio. My own personal conclusion is that the number of seemingly insignificant and bizarre things that can screw with digital rapidly approaches infinity. Luckily, all of their effects are truly small (next to undetectable) when you look at the big picture, and you usually have to listen quite hard on high resolution systems to weird background noises to be most successful at it. Uh, that be my opinion.

[Bigerik]

Awesome post, HdK!
Thanks!

[wineslob]

Hummmm, interesting pro's and con's here. I invite, wait, dare the naysayers to at least try a tweek. What do you have to lose? A green pen is cheap. This forum is just for that purpose, and you wont get flamed.
BTW, I've never tried the green pen. But I might in the future. Also, I'm going to send a few CD's to another (different) forum member for balancing. He swears that it makes a difference.

[ozmoid]

Hummmm, interesting pro's and con's here. I invite, wait, dare the naysayers to at least try a tweek. What do you have to lose? A green pen is cheap. This forum is just for that purpose, and you wont get flamed.
BTW, I've never tried the green pen. But I might in the future. Also, I'm going to send a few CD's to another (different) forum member for balancing. He swears that it makes a difference.

Why not? It makes a HUGE difference on tires. (If you don't think so, just go pull all those little weights off the rims and hit interstate!) If the CD is "wobbly" (like any spinning object out of balance) I would think that would have a profound effect on the laser's reading ability.

(trying not to sound like I'm dismissing this - being serious here)

[GaryP]

Also, I'm going to send a few CD's to another (different) forum member for balancing. He swears that it makes a difference.

You mean that little device that trims the CD's edges to make them perfectly round?

You reminded me of something - I know a guy who demagnatizes his CD's with a device of some sort before playing. He swears it makes a difference, too. And he promised to let me borrow it someday. :scratch2:

[wineslob]

You mean that little device that trims the CD's edges to make them perfectly round?

You reminded me of something - I know a guy who demagnatizes his CD's with a device of some sort before playing. He swears it makes a difference, too. And he promised to let me borrow it someday. :scratch2:


Well that one I'm not too sure about, kinda rings of the photon removal stuff.
I have to agree that the balancing makes sense, so I'm going to send some off.

Oh,to answer your question, yes I believe he is making the CD edge round to the center hole.

[GaryP]

Well that one I'm not too sure about, kinda rings of the photon removal stuff.

Phasers on Stun (FM)? :D

Still, I'm going to try it out. I have an old tape head demagnatizer hanging around (somewhere) and I have a Zero-Stat gun which demagnatizes records. It helps prevent cat hair and fluf sticking to the vinyl after playback. I guess I have a dry basement (a good thing).

My thoughts are if tape heads and records benefit from demagnatization, why not CDs that are spinning much faster than 33 & 1/3 RPM?

Makes sense to me.

In reality - who knows. But it'll be free to try! :)

[Reel 2 Reel]

He jumped to the conclusion that if I was able to hear a difference, then the green pen must be an improvement. Since that’s what he wanted to believe, I left him with that thought.

I have been saying that same thing for years now...but it mostly falls on deaf ears...

Sometimes there is a difference.... Sometimes there isnt.. but in the case of "there is a difference "... why is the difference 'always ' better?...

....Why does a tweak make the sound 'better '?...

....Why does the more expensive equipment sound 'better '?...

....Why does it always sound 'better ' when the equipment 'warms up'?...

Think about it :scratch2:


....Why cant there be times with that it sounds 'worse ' when it warms up?...

....Why cant it sound 'worse ' when you put in the expensive caps...or transformers... or power cords?....

....Why cant it sound 'worse ' when you put green marker on the outside of a cee-dee?...

....Or how bout putting a $500 wooden knob on that $5000 amp...isnt there times when it might sound worse?..

I'm not saying that the tweaks are bunk...not at all...its just 'Why is it that the changes always sound better ?'...



How do we know that the sound givin' off by a small 30 watt receiver, with an inexpensive ceedee player, and some off brand speakers aren't a more exact reproduction of what the recording engineer had in mind when he (or she) mastered the recording? Afterall..most studios have small speakers that they use to listen to when the mastering is being done in the first place.

The sound comming out of your system is what you make of it...you have the power to make the changes that suit you ...if something isn't quite rite ...make it rite...Thats what controls and tweaks are for....If they even have to be used at all.... :thmbsp:

[luvvinvinyl]

Gary, for what it's worth, when I tested some of the power cords in the demo program, the most expensive one was no better than the 'disposable' OEM cord, and didn't hold a candle to the ones at 1/3-1/4 its price, and I posted so.

I've had varying success with isolation devices, unrelated to price. Same with interconnects. So much variation, in fact, that I cannot predict how one piece will mate up with my system, or how it will compare with another. Only listening tests satisfy my curiosity.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

[GaryP]

... why is the difference 'always ' better?...

...Why cant it sound 'worse ' when you put in the expensive caps...or transformers... or power cords?....

Well, it happened to me. I bought expensive Cardas Twin Link (not their top-o-the-line) power cords. And eventually I clued in that there was something wrong.... they introduced some kind of high end distortion to the music. Drove me nuts trying to figure it out.

[Negotiableterms]

I'm not saying that the tweaks are bunk...not at all...its just 'Why is it that the changes always sound better ?'

There's a post in the McIntosh forum in which the member says he sold an MCD-1000/MDA-1000 combination ($14000) and bought an MCD-201 ($3300) and is much happier. Myself, I wouldn't buy my MDA-1000 again now that I have the 201 because much of the time I like the 201 better.

On the other hand, I've never heard a $100 CDP that I could be happy with.

I think that in audio, you only get what you pay for up to a certain "turnover" point, and after that, not only do your marginal returns diminish, they can easily become negative. Vintage gear can cause the turnover point to be quite low. That's one reason why we're all here; to figure out what to buy that will really make a positive difference.

[Bigerik]

Thankfully, I am too poor to worry much about true high end equipment. Never have to worry about the disappointment of being unhappy with a $14000 CDP! :)

I do hope David, that if I am ever in Lake Tahoe, I could bribe you with your fav beverage into letting me have a listen. Must sound incredible!

[ozmoid]

Thankfully, I am too poor to worry much about true high end equipment. Never have to worry about the disappointment of being unhappy with a $14000 CDP! :)Yeah, with 14 large in my hand, I hate to say it but a CDP would be pretty low on my shopping list... :yes: ...if I was only gonna buy one thing! :thmbsp:

[House de Kris]

Yeah, with 14 large in my hand, I hate to say it but a CDP would be pretty low on my shopping list... :yes: ...if I was only gonna buy one thing! :thmbsp:
But wait, way back in post 9 of this thread, Negotiableterms already mentioned that the $3300 player makes the green pens (the point of this thread) ineffective. So really, no need to go whole-hog and drop the big bucks here.

[ozmoid]

But wait, way back in post 9 of this thread, Negotiableterms already mentioned that the $3300 player makes the green pens (the point of this thread) ineffective. So really, no need to go whole-hog and drop the big bucks here.Good point, Kris! So now I have to ask - How close is a Unica marker gonna get me to the Mac CDP, NT? :scratch2:

(I would tell you I was using my Playstation 1 for a CDP, but that would just be cruel. :naughty: )

[House de Kris]

Good point, Kris! So now I have to ask - How close is a Unica marker gonna get me to the Mac CDP, NT? :scratch2:

(I would tell you I was using my Playstation 1 for a CDP, but that would just be cruel. :naughty: )
Actually, the green pen might have its most audible effect with a PlayStation. For five smackers, you've GOT to do it now. Yup, green pen the disc, turn the player up-side down, and do the hokey-pokey...quasi-audiophile bliss!

[Negotiableterms]

...How close is a Unica marker gonna get me to the Mac CDP, NT?

Hmmm... let's see...it'll depend where you're starting:

If you're starting with a complete dCS stack ($40,000), I think it'll be a giant step backward or make no difference (not that I'll ever know for sure);

If you're starting with an Ayre C-5xe ($6,000), I think it'll be still be a huge step back, or make no difference (I'm fairly sure);

If you're starting with an MCD-201, it'll be a pleasant activity to color your CDs, and will make no difference at all (I'm certain).

If you're starting with an ancient vintage 14-bit CDP, it certainly couldn't hurt (not that I ever want to find out);

If you're starting with a Sony Playstation, it won't play your games any more.

:naughty:

Erik, I'm very happy with its sound, and you're entirely welcome any time!

[ozmoid]

Actually, the green pen might have its most audible effect with a PlayStation. For five smackers, you've GOT to do it now. Yup, green pen the disc, turn the player up-side down, and do the hokey-pokey...quasi-audiophile bliss!
Actually, I AM using the old Playstation on my "back room" system. (And NT, it hasn't played a game in years anyway - I think we only ever bought about 4 or 5!) The only drawback is that I can't navigate tracks without a TV hooked up - it's just "Play" and "Stop".

I haven't tried any green-lined CD's in it, maybe I need to do that...