Thorens in progress

[WildWest]

Well I etch out a minute here and a minute there to work on this. Dying to get it up and rolling. But I had done some dampening work and such so I thought to share it here. I have decieded to not use any Dynamat on this project. Mostly because of its cost. Found a nice thick cork material that works well. Also I found that using rubber cement rather than Blu RTV silicone is much more forgiving to work with and provides for a cleaner installation. I used a good latex white caulk at the cork edges. Made for a clean bead ya know?

I have installed the RCA jacks and installed a better molded head power cord. The bottom plate is done also but I will show that once I have it all together.

[WildWest]

new RCA jacks instead of existing defective RCA cords.

[WildWest]

What the heck...Here is the bottom plate. Notice the larger feet. Makes for a good foot print.

[bully]

I like what y'all got going, the mods look clean and to the point.

pete

[WildWest]

Well I have got all the cork and other dampening materials in place. Whew, what a job but is this thing ever solid now. Hard to see but the speed control bar is wrapped in a tape we use called rubber tape. It's real heavy stretchable tape that molds well. I damped every dang thing I could...

[Wardsweb]

man, thats a lot of work - so whats it sound like, eager minds want to know.

[WildWest]

Sigh...more than anything I wish I could tell you what it sounds like. But alas, I still have the suspension to set up. The tonearm to detail and install. I may pound this out tomorrow and start the final process but with company in town, I ain't sure it will happen. But as soon as I can I will post on how it sounds compared to my current Technics TT. With my new heavy steel stand and these mods I have high expectations. Hope they are met! ;)

[ProAc_Fan]

WW screw the company and get that TT finished. You must be a patient man cause there's no way I wouldn't finish that puppy ASAP. I bet she's gonna sound very sweet. I bet you're rightfully proud of the work you've done and I hope you can soon enjoy the fruits of your labor.



Mike ;)

[WildWest]

So tell me this. How many guys that do the mods to their Thorens reinstall the German sticker from the old plate to the new bottom plate huh huh huh? :dunno: Clearly only a obsessed demented mind would only do such a thing! Razor blade surgery. (hee hee hee)

In spite of that, the bottom plate goes on tonight. Spent hours over the plater bounce and tone arm set up. It's as close as it will get for now. Likely I will tweak slightly after I hear it. Tomorrow after work I put the spark to it! :yippy:

[Wardsweb]

You are a VERY sick man :D

[car67]

reinstalling the sticker - I think that's a very nice touch!:D

LOL!

Jack - hope the notes I sent help with the platter bounce.

[bully]

"A tweaker's got to do what a tweaker's got to do!" :D
It seems perfectly normal to me ...

Pete

[WildWest]

Yea Jack, them notes did help a lot thanks tons!

Saaaayyyy Pete....Dave says that you run a Shure V15 IV cart. (or did) I cannot for the life of me find a replacement stylus. (Garage and Needle Doctor) and when I called Shure service they said no way on repair either. Can you shed any light here or
am I S.O.L?

[bully]

I hope not!!
http://lpgear.com lists styli for the V15-IV @ $68 & change.
I don't think I paid more than $150 when I got my cartridge!!
Mine is mounted on the Fisher TT, and it is packed away and is NOT handy to get out right now :( It is in OBM and in a very safe area, dry & high.

pete

[Thatch_Ear]

Any thoughts on or have you tried using a cord with earth ground? Wondering if the amp chassis ground can go By By. I have been staring at an old Dual belt drive thinking on tweeks. I am going to have to haul out and overhaul a Dyna Pas to use it. Might be why I am just looking at it right now.
Hey WW is there a Store Of Knowledge in your local upscale mall? I bought a sqeezy ball full of little soft balls for $5 and if you press the little balls for a while between boards that are weighted they flatten enough to go under gear feet and work real good at isolation. If you don't flatten the little guys first your TT will just roll off. Desparation and or lack of cash is the mother of invention!
Thatch

[WildWest]

Thanks Pete! Saved the day!

Hey David we don't have that store but I will keep my eyes open for something similar. Sounds interesting...


Just a pic of the bottom plate installed. Have to yank it back off though. Friggin platter just ain't quite right yet. I never realize the amount of foolin around with respect to this. But it's all in fun!!
:grnbounce

[WildWest]

Taaaa daaaaaa... Whew, I did as Mike said and blew off the company. Gezzz not like we don't see her folks all the friggin time anyway. They understood. :D I pushed this project on to the fast track when I swore I wouldn't. To many more important things to do...YEA RIGHT!! LOL I don't have to worry, you guys understand. <snicker>

I worked and worked this thing and was suprised at all the foolin around with respect to bounce and level. (Talk about breakin a sweat) But I leveled each phase from the spiked steel stand up. Using a torpedo level and a lil center bubble level. Had the base off only once to retweak the suspension so that wasn't to bad. I scrutenized the tone arm at every angle and it is dead on the null points. (that was rather tough. Had to shim the cartridge from the headshell too ugghhh) I wish I could post a pic for you guys but I was only able to shoot the previous pics from my puter cam. Don't have a digital to use in the listening room. But I did take some 35mm shots soooo soon enough.

Hats off to Steve Clarke and his website to inspire me in this adventure. I pretty much followed his instructions but there was places where I felt I did a little better, or worse depending on ones point of view. I like my bottom plate better. The router edge is super sweet. It fit so right on with the little bit of varnish added in. Adds ridgid support I think. (looks better?) I also like my feet better. While he said his are "compliance", I prefer the bigger foot print of mine. After all, it was only 4 bucks for the feet. I used a different material for putty. Couldn't find blu tak and what I used molded just like it and will stay pliable. (dirt cheap too) I also didn't use Dynamat. It just cost to much for my tweakin tastes. I felt my thick cork mat will work well enough and I used rubber cement on every square inch of surface area. Held real well and was easy to use. No seam of cork, no nothing didn't get sealed and dampened. I'm sure it will be fine.

So now comes the meat of the subject... Well, well, well! How did it sound? Sounded MUCH better than the budget Technics I used to have. I am able to really crank the volume up like never before. That's a bonus. The stylus in the Shure cart might be questionable though. It's so hard to say. Under my scope it appeared worn but I am no expert at that. I am funny about stylus, same as tubes. If I ain't had it from day one I quesion it ya know? I will have to roll some carts and fool with this a while to totally zero it in. But first response is most excellent! Great open sound stage and my speakers totally disappear. There is something so crystall clear about the sound. It so spoils you. I can remember laughing at my older analog brother. We really thought the redbook CD was better. Whew! Did I ever go to school. Never had this level of vinyl before so, who knew!?

Was it worth all the sweat and back ache. HAIL YES! This is one fine, fine table now! You can bet I am alreay hot to trot for a sweet new tone arm for this bad boy. Alas, that will be a way off. I need to live with what I have for now. Well, that's what she tells me anyway...

P.S. Sayyyyy I have a bit of a hum. (Didn't have before with the other table) I installed a ground wire from the tone arm connection block and main point of ground on this table. It helped but didn't do it all the way. Anyone here have some good ideas for me? Kewl...Thanks!

:cool:

[car67]

Congrats Dave! Great effort!

This should now provide many hours of listening pleasure. Tweaking the suspension is a real pain but worth it. I needed two sessions and four hours before I got mine right - but then I was new to it too. I'm sure the next time will be a lot easier.

Enjoy the fruits of your labour ! Post the pics when the prints come back...I wanna see!:)

Jack

[Thatch_Ear]

WW,
I looked for it on the net but it seems thay have gone chapter eleven. They are owned or so it seems by Public Televisision/Radio. I guess those pledges just didn'y come in fast enough, or the stores just couldn't pay the rent and were written off.
Thatch

[WildWest]

Well one area of this project that I sorta over looked was the head shell. So I took it into the shop and put it under my glass to do some work. Seems the the P mount hardware in the headshell was rather stiff. So just the slightest liquid gun grease in there got it smoothed up. I packed the small nooks and crannies with tak. Should dampen it some. I scrapped the peeling paint off of it and sanded it down with 1000 grit paper. Very bright aluminum look now. I want to keep the Thoren logo on it so I only use the metric screws that came with it to mount carts. Seems I have had to modify every cart so far but grinding a lil plastic away on both sides won't hurt anything. As long as it is even. I am certain my hum problem is these nasty looking headshell leads. When you touch them turntable on, they make all kinds of fun new noises and hums. One look under the glass and you can see how crappy they are. Can't wait for my new leads! I have a Grado Black with a new stylus that I am gonna try on here next. But to be honest, I don't have high expectations from it. I really need to step up to the plate and get a brand new high quality cart to start from square one and realize the amount of work that has gone into this table. This table will support much better carts that the Black that's for sure.

[car67]

Hey WW,

So you found a source for the headshell leads then? Not long ago, I saw a audioquest set in a hi fi shop selling for about $25. Talk about being gouged!:rolleyes: Not looking for any for myself - just noticed them. Reckon it would be cheaper to buy a old tt from thrift shop that maybe still has a headshell with wires on it.

Have you done the mat yet? Not sure if you've seen it but there's a guy on AA who's making felt mats for thorens's.

The thread..

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/143008.html

Jack

[WildWest]

Well Jack ya know, I was gonna make my own leads. But after I chased down the parts and then fooled with it why, I would have saved money to mearly order them and have the big brown truck drop them off at my door. I have several head shells and frankly, the leads on them are junk too. The leads I have coming are nice corrosion proof gold end leads with heat shrink at the solder joints. (The signal is very low here. I want excellent connections) Real sweet compared to anything I could scrape up outta the ole head shell/cart parts box.

Hey I did see that guy's thread on mats. I had a few old mats and currently I am using one that I like well enough. I really like the bi-layer leather mat idea and in time will dig that up.

[ProAc_Fan]

Hey WW nice work. BTW just what model number of Thorens is this? There's a relatively inexpensive 160 available now I might get if I know someone who can assist me with the "mods".

Mike

[WildWest]

Say Mike...I know there is a model number here besides the TD 160 but I just ain't sure what it is. MRK something? How embarrasing eh? LOL Anyway, where is this Thorens you are looking at? I wanna see!

If you can score a TD 160 for cheap and the motor is good I would grab it. I had a BLAST building mine and it really is simple. Not much soldering and such things.

I am by far no expert but I have seen a few turn tables in my day. The mods that can be done to the low cost Thorens TD line can raise it to a level of table that you normally never could afford. (Well I could't anyway) If I can offer any help to you please feel free to ask. I would enjoy seeing you embark on this and then hearing you brag about the results LOL ;)

[WildWest]

Mike...does it look like this?

[ProAc_Fan]

Man just lookin at yours is making me lust for one. The one I'm referring to was on the bay but the auction ended before you could respond. I'll be keeping my eyes open for another 160. There always available and often for less than a $100.

Mike

[WildWest]

Well uhhh that's not mine in that pic. Looks verrrrrry similar so I stole it LOL Pics of my completed table are coming soon.

Yea keep your eyes open on the bay. I saw one go the other day for friggin 78.00 bucks, dustcover and all!

Make sure you ask all the dumb questions though of the seller. Good luck!

[WildWest]

Check this out... E bay #1371812106

[WildWest]

Hey! Sexy lookin leads too. Better friggin be for 20.00 bucks eh? Gezzzz, ole WildWest gets smoked on cables... BUT, I beg to differ. You see, normally I scoff at high dollar ICs, power cables etc. But when you are talkin about such a low signal as the headshell it then does become important. Not so important as in the conductor itself but the connector and how that conductor is landed in it. Copper will corrode over time. <specially humid climates> Between that and the connector metal being poor why... guess what? Easy to screw up that signal!

Anyway that hum I mentioned that I had? Well guess what? It's gone. Poof, outta here, later dude... You should hear the differance! Stone cold quite! I am tickled to death!! Guys, never under estimate your headshell leads. It's a 20.00 tweak that I would do even if I didn't have that noise/hum that I had. Nice gold connectors. Multi insulated conductors wove together, heat shrink on the crimp area to keep atmosphere out. I even put em under the glass and sealed up the heat shrink with liquid rubber tape. <uhhh can you say carried away? Oh well, tis my fun after all> Should be good to go for...uhh good!

I tossed a new stylus/older cart Grado Black on there for testing. Did some basic set up, spun a song. But the lil woman was in the room watchin da big screen sooooo I really couldn't get carried away with playing. Not worried though. What I have heard so far was just GRRRRRRREEAT

I sure am glad that I have discovered vinyl. For sonic reasons as well as "feed the need" to play at my hobby. :D Sooo much cheap, easy tweakin and such. Yea I grew up with it, but we never extracted the music like I am now. My older brother had a decent DUAL but I don't remember seeing any of the tools that I have laying around. I know full good and well that DUAL bounced around in that cabinet etc. Friggin desert dust bucket it was. Blow on the record, blow on the stylus, that's about it. We just tossed albums on.

Tell ya...The redbook CD is a life saver, just great! How on earth would I ever live without it. I couldn't, listen to so much of it. But my approach like yours, is to keep reaching forward to what our ears tells us is best. Our own "sonic bliss" as it were. Vinyl has given me that extra step forward that I so yearn for. A certain sound that hits the mark for me. Now, doesn't mean it is better than digital but, wait! Yes it is. It's much better...

To me ;)

[WildWest]

Had something come up that I thought to post as it is part of this whole process here...

Well I had the table spinning and was enjoying various records. Funny how some records just don't play worth a chit. (not so much in cracks and pops but in the mastering itself. Some LPs are really phucked up ya know?) I have been rollin carts from Grado Black to some Audio Technica. Anyway, settled in on the Shure V15. But still something seemed wrong with the platter. The bounce was just to sloppy still. But when I got under there and tweaked up the lock nuts on the springs it pretty much lost any bounce at all. That smooth 5 bounce tap that I was shooting for was elusive.

What the heck was it? Drivin me nuts. Then it struck me. DUH! Do you know how your car would ride if it only had springs in the supension? BOING BOING BOING! All over the place right? Hence they install shock absorbers and you get a smooth sweet bounce. So I took some cotton balls and ripped off just a lil bit and stuffed it on the inside of the springs. Now mind you, just a lil bit. Don't want much. Lo and behold that was it! Perfect smooth bounce. Ahhhhhhhh

So if you do these mods don't forget some cotton. It will really help your platter bounce. Worked for me anyway...

[car67]

hey WW,

Think I know what you mean about the phucked up LP's - harsh, compressed, loads of reverb, boosted mids etc. Got/had a few of those!:) Rather listen to the CD if that's going to be the case. At least then I can use the remote. :)

Not sure if it's the same problem, but something similiar happened to me when I was tweaking the Thorens suspension. After a round of adjustments with the spanner, I lost all the bounce. WTF? indeed! Well, I found that recentering the springs i.e. lift the spring free from the nut for a sec, twist to get rid of tension, and reseat it - seemed to do the trick. It was only one spring that went off-centre but it killed the whole suspension. Gotta love these old machines. :)


Jack

[WildWest]

Exactly Jack. If it's gonna sound like that, screw it and toss on the CD. Fortuneatly most LPs sound quite good and some of course sound downright amazing! After all, that is why we go through all the work of vinyl.

In my case, it wasn't so much that I had lost bounce but more like how the bounce was happening ya know? It was just to darn irratic. Not the smooth to subtle transition bounce that any good suspension should have. Just that lil bit of cotton really did the trick. I was very pleased. I think he should have that in his web site. It is a good tip and worked for me in any case.

I know what you mean though about turning the springs. If one does not know about that trick they will never get the suspension right. Each one has to be turned just eactly so. The more you fool with the table though the faster you get at it and the easier it becomes. Kind of fun! :)

[WildWest]

I really want a new cart. That Shure V15 is popular but daannnngggg. 325.00 bucks? Anyway, I did some digging around via seach engines and found a supplier that will sell if for 265.00 SMOKIN!! That's a heck of a savings over what most on line sell them for. I am gonna get me one me thinks.

[car67]

WW,

Guessing you have browsed AA like I have and seen all the postiive comments about the V15 so it's a pretty safe bet especially if you like the sound of the type III.

Say, do you have a moving coil input on your preamp, hint hint?;) :)

Jack

[WildWest]

Moving coil input? You know I am not sure. It's a beefy well built pre but I would have to pull it out to look for any clues about using a MC cart.

Regardless, I ordered the V15 from a supplier that Grumpy told me about. Even cheaper than the source I had found. 249.00 total shipped 2nd day. Can't beat that eh? Looking very forward to hearing it. Let cha know...