I read an article in the new RS saying that the music biz had their worst year since they began recording data in the early 90s. The article said that several No. 1 hit albums reached that spot with the lowest recorded sales ever, something like 70,000 albums sold.

The only thing holding up the biz IMHO is us older geezers who continue to buy CDs, especially the 'latest & greatest' remastered box sets. I mean, how many copies of the Monkees does anyone really need?

Kids today download everything, legally or illegally, on MP3s and have no concept of how great music can sound.

Of course there has been a paucity of great artists and great CDs IMHO, which contributes to this problem, and the fickleness of the music buying crowd by today's teenagers and 20 somethings.

I had a long discussion with a buddy of mine I worked with in my music biz days and we came to the conclusion that groups do not have the fan base or the dedicated followers of years gone by. Sure, there are a few groups, but by and large, most groups have one decently sized hit and then vanish from sight.

Oh well.

Personally, I'm glad about this. Maybe the suits in the music biz will figure out that a pretty face and slick production is not good enough for anything more than just the flavor of the moment. Most of the new music I listen to here is on the university's alternative station (not everything is new though, they play more Beatles & Bowie than the classic rock station). In my opinion, virtually no mainstream artists are pushing the progression of music. 30 to 40 years ago, that wasn't the case. Hell, 20 years ago, most rap even had something to say.

And I think that many bands have dedicated and lasting followings, but many just aren't large-scale commercial successes for long. I've read about record labels deciding to just not support and promote bands for no reason. I also think that there are so many different sub-genres these days that fanbases are somewhat limited for many musical styles. I've talked with people who are into electronica who love jungle and drum & bass, but hate house and trance (even though the two styles are part of the same genre).

I rarely buy new CDs prefer to go the used route. It's the same philosophy that drives me to not spend $9 at the movie theatre when I can see it on cable in a couple of months.

Yeah, maybe if they stopped flaunting bad music, the industry would do better.

Offer a decent product and they will come. When was the last time the offered a decent product in the music scene?

It is a great thing to hear that the music industry is finally getting a hard hit after ruling with an iron grip since the 30's. A wholly corrupt monoploy it is and has been. They have set price standards that nobody could ever question (kinda reminds me of oil companies, too). They have also spent endless resources 'shelving' recorded material, never ever releasing them, and screwing over artists left & right by seizing ownership of unreleased recorded material. Shame on them.

Good music is always hard to find anyways. Just because BMG tells you it's good doesn't mean sh*t. But you folks already know all of this. A discearning ear must only accept fine program material to go along with fine audio equipement.

I get excited about new vinyl, but for general listening I think I'd rather pay and download. Maybe $0.50 a song?

the music biz needs to wake up and price their product accordingly.

$18 for a cd that costs them .50 cents to make is crazy. it's cheaper for them to make cd's than vinyl records. so they should be selling cd's for around $5.

i try to always go used route when buying cd's.

Offer a decent product and they will come. When was the last time the offered a decent product in the music scene?

It depends on where you look and what scene you're interested in. The music Carl listens too (myself and RichP included) comes from overseas, mostly Europe and Scandinavia, some from the UK. It's gothic and celtic metal coupled with mostly femme vox and some cookie monster stuff. While we think it's great, it may not be your cup of tea. I guess my point is that there's great music out there just waiting to be discovered. There really is.

Have you heard anything from Porcupine Tree? Dead Soul Tribe? Anathema? How about that new Willie Nile album? Man, that was killer. I could go on and on.

Cheers

Guilty as charged. I have at least 1500 CD's and over 1200 LP's....And I would guess over half were purchased used. I only buy new when a favorite artist releases a new CD. Like most of us, I just think new CD's just cost way too much....No reason they should be more than $10....Less would be better still!

It depends on where you look and what scene you're interested in. The music Carl listens too (myself and RichP included) comes from overseas, mostly Europe and Scandinavia, some from the UK. It's gothic and celtic metal coupled with mostly femme vox and some cookie monster stuff. While we think it's great, it may not be your cup of tea. I guess my point is that there is great music out there just waiting to be discovered. There really is.

Have you heard anything from Porcupine Tree? Dead Soul Tribe? Anathema? How about that new Willie Nile album? Man, that was killer. I could go on and on.

Cheers

I don't think anyone here would get accused of having "mainstream" taste in music! As long as the "American Idol" crowd buys that pap, it will continue to pour out of the radios, er......... Ipods

I don't think anyone here would get accused of having "mainstream" taste in music! As long as the "American Idol" crowd buys that pap, it will continue to pour out of the radios, er......... Ipods

Really! Wow! I didn't know that. :rolleyes:

It's not about "mainstream" music. It's about finding music you like. We all know that shit sucks and if you look around, beyond the ordinary FM crap, you'll find something. The music industry is not as bleek as others would perceive it.

Cheers.

I'm a music fan in general; I don't really limit myself to any one genre, but when push comes to shove, I do prefer country music. When I say country music, though, I don't mean wannabe pretty boy Timmy McGraw or wife Faithie! :thumbsdn: Country music as presented nowadays has nothing to do with country but has more in common with bubblegum pop music, IMO. :D

The guys and gals who made country music can still sing. People like Willie Nelson, George Jones, Loretta Lynn and others have put out new CD's in the last few years, but does "country" radio promote them? Nope! Country radio practically ignored Johnny Cash's releases on the American label and that's a doggone shame. I've never understood why that you can't let traditional country coexist side by side with the new crap? Of course George Jones and company aren't as popular with the young crowd and some research firm has said that the folks who prefer older music don't spend as much money, so why play George, etc.? Well, let me tell ya, lol, I'm 32 and I know good music when I hear it!!!

I also have to ask why won't country radio, or other radio formats for that matter, explore roots music? I love to hear Jimmie Rodgers, the Mississippi Blue Yodeler (bought the Bear Family box set! :yes: ) and Hank Williams, Sr. both. You can trace a direct line from Jimmie Rodgers to the music of Randy Travis, but yet country radio wouldn't be caught dead playing Jimmie! :sigh:

Well, this is a conversation I could go on about all night, lol, so I better hush!

I'll let the words of a George Jones song from the mid-90's speak about the current state of music:

Deep down in Texas near the DFW
Among the shrubs and patios and barbecues
Was borned a suburban boy named Billy B Bad
Had a white bread momma and a rock and roll dad
Didn't have much soul or country roots
But he sure looked cute in his cowboy suit

B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad
B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad
B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad
He can spot a trend and he knows a pad
He's a country singer named Billy B Bad.

He sounds like everybody on the radio
He's building up his biceps for his video
The people at the label said we like to start 'em young
We know you're twenty three but we'll say you're twenty one
They played him some Strait they played him some Jones
Now he's got that country music way down in his bones.

B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad
B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad
B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad
Watch out for your daughters he's gonna drive 'em mad
The country sex symbol called Billy B Bad.

Now poor ol' Billy's at the end of the line
He's over the hill cause he's pushing twenty nine
He's not as young and he's not as handsome
He just tested positive for Branson
He'll never be that hot again
Look for his music in the oldies bin

B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad
B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad
B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad B-B-B-B-Billy, Billy B Bad
But what a great career he had
Let's say goodbye to Billy B Bad...

I also have to ask why won't country radio, or other radio formats for that matter, explore roots music? I love to hear Jimmie Rodgers, the Mississippi Blue Yodeler (bought the Bear Family box set! ) and Hank Williams, Sr. both. You can trace a direct line from Jimmie Rodgers to the music of Randy Travis, but yet country radio wouldn't be caught dead playing Jimmie!


Ahmen Brother!

Offer a decent product and they will come. When was the last time the offered a decent product in the music scene?

IMO, this is where country music is winning. And not necessarily because of just the music, but there's been some very good music/artists arrive on the scene (Pat Green and Jack Ingram come to mind). But what sets country music apart right now as a success are a few things:

1. The stars appear to be much more accessible to the fans - at their shows, on the road etc. Here locally, most country artists still drop in the local radio stations for a live interview when in town for a show.

2. CMT especially, and other channels like A&E continue to bring the artists "home", through videos, live concerts, documentaries etc. Similar to how MTV once was, but now you'd be lucky to ever find any music on MTV. A&E even has a few live concerts a year called "Live By Request" where the audience members and the TV audience (by calling in) can talk to the artist and request a song on the spot. I saw a Lyle Lovett concert like this, and it was fantastic.

3. Crossover/Crossroads specials - CMT regularly brings rock & country artists together, or two different country artists together. The resulting music is usually great. An example would be Jimmy Buffett and Alan Jackson, or Jimmy Buffett and Kenny Chesney. Or, and laugh if you want, but Kid Rock and myriad country stars. While I'd never usually be a Kid Rock fan based on his own music, when he pairs up with country artists, the guy is amazing. He and Sheryl Crow did a country duet a couple years back that was very good IMHO.

Overall, it just seems Country has the pulse of the fans figured out better than other segments of the music industry right now.

JD

A number of good and interesting points in this thread, but every time I read a "business sucks" story about the music business or the audio business, my reaction is "so what?" The fact that the big manufacturers aren't pulling in the money they'd like doesn't bother me, as long as I can find music and gear that I want. I do have to use the internet for both these days, and that's a shame, but I could care less about whatever's in the pop top 40, and I have no problem finding more music than I have time to listen to. With changes in distribution, making it easier for niche music to find an audience (even a smallish one), I think we'll be OK. Who cares if our hobby is not big business, as it was for an historically brief period?

IMHO.

Overall, it just seems Country has the pulse of the fans figured out better than other segments of the music industry right now.

JD[/QUOTE]


I agree with you. Country music does give its fans more than any other style out there today. I have kind of been mad at country for the treatment they gave Johnny Cash. He was a productive artist until the end, but shunned by mainstream country until it became evident he would soon be gone. His American Recordings were the most progressive and experimental country in the last 20 year. It was mostly ignored by mainstream country with the exception of "Hurt".

IMHO.

Overall, it just seems Country has the pulse of the fans figured out better than other segments of the music industry right now.

JD


I agree with you. Country music does give its fans more than any other style out there today. I have kind of been mad at country for the treatment they gave Johnny Cash. He was a productive artist until the end, but shunned by mainstream country until it became evident he would soon be gone. His American Recordings were the most progressive and experimental country in the last 20 year. It was mostly ignored by mainstream country with the exception of "Hurt".[/QUOTE]


A very astute observation,Cash was ignored the last years of his life and when death was near everyone jumped on the bandwagon. The American Recording series are the most poignant,entertaing series we have seen in the last 15 years.

Alan

Music (LPs CDs) have always been overpriced. In 1964 an album was $3.98CDN.I remember buying one at that price.I had to save for months to get this album

cds are over priced but the rationalization is that stores like future Shop,Best Buy will sell it for $7.99 and call it a lost leader.That is great for the buying public if your demographic say you are betwwen 10-14,female and adore mainstream pop.

Meanwhile,jerks like me are paying premium cause we like Glenn Phillips,The Foercast, Grant lee Phillips and the like.
I don't D\L cause for some strange reason I like the hunt for new music and I like the liner notes which tell me that so and so is playing on this cd

Alan

"Worst business year ever for music ?" Guess what this is... It's the world's smallest violin player playin' "My Ass Bleeds for You..." The ones I feel sorry for are the session musicians, writers, sound engineers, the grunts who actually make it happen. The big-time Artistes, the suits in the industry, the pimpoid flacks-Screw 'em. So they don't get to buy the 3rd Maybach this year...The guy I care about is the session artist who does OK, but still has 3 kids to put thru school...Irv, the sound guy who gives The Rolling Stones "Their" sound..Unfortunately, it'll be those guys who suffer the most as they're largely invisible...

A number of good and interesting points in this thread, but every time I read a "business sucks" story about the music business or the audio business, my reaction is "so what?" The fact that the big manufacturers aren't pulling in the money they'd like doesn't bother me, as long as I can find music and gear that I want. I do have to use the internet for both these days, and that's a shame, but I could care less about whatever's in the pop top 40, and I have no problem finding more music than I have time to listen to. With changes in distribution, making it easier for niche music to find an audience (even a smallish one), I think we'll be OK. Who cares if our hobby is not big business, as it was for an historically brief period?
You're right on the money pal, and that's what pretty much I was trying to say earlier.

For almost all purposes, music business IS mainstream, and when they are crying about sales, it's probably NOT because Willie Nile didn't go platinum. Face it, Mariah Carey/Celine Dion/Justin Timberlakes' weekly royalty checks are all probably bigger than weekly SALES figures for many of the artists we prefer!

As a blues lover, most of the music I prefer is way under the music business radar and only supported due to the efforts of fanatics like Bruce Iglauer of Alligator who committ their being and passion to the music. Classical is very similar in that it makes up a miniscule portion of sales and winds up being supported in a large part by private donations of patrons.

By and large, most of us here are hobbyists with niche tastes, be it in music, gear, food or film, and while we can find the goods we want and desire, no body is going to start a big business mass marketing it, so we all just have to look a bit harder and not expect to walk into Wal*Mart and find an endcap of LPs.

IMO, this is where country music is winning. And not necessarily because of just the music, but there's been some very good music/artists arrive on the scene (Pat Green and Jack Ingram come to mind). But what sets country music apart right now as a success are a few things:

1. The stars appear to be much more accessible to the fans - at their shows, on the road etc. Here locally, most country artists still drop in the local radio stations for a live interview when in town for a show.

2. CMT especially, and other channels like A&E continue to bring the artists "home", through videos, live concerts, documentaries etc. Similar to how MTV once was, but now you'd be lucky to ever find any music on MTV. A&E even has a few live concerts a year called "Live By Request" where the audience members and the TV audience (by calling in) can talk to the artist and request a song on the spot. I saw a Lyle Lovett concert like this, and it was fantastic.

3. Crossover/Crossroads specials - CMT regularly brings rock & country artists together, or two different country artists together. The resulting music is usually great. An example would be Jimmy Buffett and Alan Jackson, or Jimmy Buffett and Kenny Chesney. Or, and laugh if you want, but Kid Rock and myriad country stars. While I'd never usually be a Kid Rock fan based on his own music, when he pairs up with country artists, the guy is amazing. He and Sheryl Crow did a country duet a couple years back that was very good IMHO.

Overall, it just seems Country has the pulse of the fans figured out better than other segments of the music industry right now.

JD

I agree about CMT...Sessions at Studio 330 is pretty good too...

Lucinda Williams and Elvis Costello was excellent and so Was Ryan Adams and Elton John on CMT Crossroads.