Quick inputs from a high end shoppe

[reyneman]

You can tell it's high end from the spelling;)

Sorry guys- just want to jot down some notes from here in Delaware...more when I get back

ML- decent sound, upper mid brightness, more like harshness, balance not right

Avalon- great sound, image only in small location, 30K my ass, 100k system, 10k wires

Mirage makes some great theatre sound- remember projector shit, forgot, will look up

Classe, C-J, what the were the amps on the Avalons?

Rotel- did they misadjust to seem worse than higher end?

Classe is classy, esp CD and amps. Pre- I've seen better.

C-J- great basic stuff, pre versatile yet simple/ 17 & 18. No amp hooked up- most rooms converted to multichannel, only two stereo.

No freakin vinyl rigs- said too delicate, have a Basis 2500/Graham 2.2/ Clearaudio cart would let go resonable- 14K reasonable? They ain't using it, should just give it to me

[reyneman]

Ah, the high end has really changed since I last was interested!

Thought I would post some of my findings here, just quick inputs. Please remember that these are only initial impressions, formed during a quick (approx 2 hrs) listen in an unfamiliar setting.

First the shop- this is a fairly well known, high end shop. I was really disappointed with the displays. Although they had five dedicated listening rooms, THREE WERE SET UP FOR HOME THEATER!

Kind of a let down, but I'm sure their decision was based on market forces, so it was adapt or die. Adaptation isn't all bad...

The real let down was there were NO vinyl rigs to play with- what I had been mainly interested in. Seems that with the switch to home theater, more 'little ones' were accompanying their parents (yes, both mom and dad) to the store. These young folks had not been taught the importance of not touching delicate equipment (see Grumpy, there IS an advantage to CD players), and had damaged several TTs. How you could properly evaluate some high value equipment while accompanied by children is beyond me, but so it goes. I will say that the home theater displays were truely awesome, but didn't eval individual theaters.

See, I am a true 'stereo' buff- as the salesman called me?

My next few posts will be on some of the equipment in the two stereo rooms.

[reyneman]

MartinLogan Odyssey Speakers

I must state right off that these speakers will not become part of my rig (yeah, like I have this much to spend on ANY stereo equipment:p: ). Please remember that this, like the small reviews to follow, are a 'what if I could afford' evaluation. Also, ALL the rooms were as well set-up and optimized as they could be, unlike what we would have in our real world environments.

I found the MLs to be somewhat unbalanced, with a bass that didn't seem to mesh well with the rest of the freq range. There was also a harshness apparent in the upper mids- it was this harshness that removed these speaks from my want to have list. The salesman claimed that these speaks would smooth out long term, but they had already been set-up for awhile, so I don't know.

Now, what the MLs do right, they do very very right. Vocals are excellent, decent soundstage, etheral quality. But the bass (just got 'lows', couldn't tell exactly what instrument I was hearing- that's how boomy the bottom was) disconcerted me so much that I couldn't concentrate.

One more thing- these must be one very difficult load, as they brought a Rotel amp to its knees. A pair of Classe monos handled them quite handily.

All in all, I feel there is better out there for the money, but if they work for you, good.

[bully]

Interesting observations. I'll follow along as you continue to post your evals.

[reyneman]

Avalon Eidolons

Wow! Some of the finest speakers I have ever personally heard.

I spent most of my time listening to these speakes, and would like to be able to say something profound, like 'I noticed a slight blurring of instruments at the highest range', but I can't. I could not hear a single deficiency in these bad boys. Balanced throughout the frequency range.

I could say that it takes time to appreciate what this speaker offers, since everything is so balanced, but that would be a lie. These sound SO good that you will immediately remember (or find) the faults you have heard in other systems.

Soundstage is wide and deep, localization is superb, three-D all the way, and yet THEY ARE MUSICAL! THAT is what hits you hardest- these are flat a true pleasure to listen to. Clear, clean, broad, balanced- you think of a term you've heard applied to a great speaker, and these have it. And, they are flat out BEAUTIFUL! Of course, the veneer on this particular set was a $7500 option (and that's just for the veneer? Get real).

Very realistic instruments, the rim shots on drums are especially noticable. It also makes me wonder about that Classe CD player- it was putting out some great sound. Wonder what they would be like with a good vinyl front?

All is not perfect with these speakers- I don't believe the 1W crowd need apply to this club. They take some power to get singing, and they will take all the power you care to give without complaint or compression.

Of course, these speakers would be overkill in most homes, and perhaps much of the excellent balance and soundstage stems from the fact that THIS ENTIRE ROOM WAS DESIGNED, BUILT, AND OPTIMIZED FOR THESE SPEAKERS. Doubt your listening room was. Also, although they sound superb from any angle, you of course derive the greatest effect form the sweet spot, which didn't seem overly large to me. Of course, that could be because of how great they were in the spot, rather than an actual deficiency.

[michael w]

The Eidolons are indeed fine speakers.
Forget all the fancy schmancy multi-box, planar, exotic drive systems ...the big Avalons are asskicking, name taking, great all-rounders.

If you loved the standard Eidolons, wait until you hear the Diamond version...

Sell the first born now !

:D

Yes the sweet spot may seem small but show me any speaker with a wide sweet spot and you can bet it will have compromised soundstaging/imaging abilities. It's the nature of the stereo beast for speakers that do the pinsharp imaging thing to have relatively narrow sweet spots.


cheerio

[michael w]

For those who don't know what Eidolons look like....

[BrianB]

If you're in the market for a new high-end audio system, think twice about using any dealer who:

1) either cannot or is unwilling to set up a decent vinyl rig for auditioning.

2) has gone whole-hog on home entertainment systems. (Business is business, I know, but if MUSIC is your passion, then you might do well to work with a high-end dealer with a less "efficient" business model.)

3) seems to have distilled their range of audio products from the pages of the most recent Stereophile "Recommended Components" issue.

I must admit that the Avalon Eidolons do indeed sound quite special, but GEEZ what a price tag! (And my wife would NEVER allow me to place a pair in our living room - she thinks that they look too much like coffins...)

[BrianB]

Originally posted by michael w
...show me any speaker with a wide sweet spot and you can bet it will have compromised soundstaging/imaging abilities.

Have you ever auditioned the Living Voice Avatars?

[michael w]

Hi Brian,

You think Avalons are expensive in the USA, try buying a pair here, we are talking enough zeroes to buy a nice car or cheap house. That could explain why the last Avalon importer in NZ closed shop about 10 years ago.

:(

Haven't heard the Living Voice speakers.
But have read that they are pretty good value for money.

Do they have pinsharp imaging, maintain image size etc. over a wide area ?


cheerio

[THOR]

$7500 for the veneer :eek: Geez I could veneer my house for that ;)

[reyneman]

But THOR, you really missed a hidden point at the start of this thread.

I could have purchased the entire Classe/MartinLogan system for the price of the speaker wires hooked up to the Avalons!

Will discuss the Classe equipment tonight when I get my notes together.

[reyneman]

Classe CDP-10 CD Player

The first thing that strikes you about this (and most Classe equipment, IMO) is the simple, solid yet elegant looks.

The player feels solid, and operating any of the controls continues the solid impression.

The only unit available to compare heads-up with the CDP-10 was a Meridian, and the Classe simply outclassayed it.

Basics- CDP-10 uses upsampling to 24 bit/352KHz, uses Burr-Brown 24/192KHz D/A converters (each channel has its own D/As), HDCD and balanced or RCA outs.

This is a great sounding unit (helped, I'm sure, by the accompaning amps and speakers), but that's what makes it more remarkable. This is the CD hooked up to the 30K Avalons, and I believe any shortcomings would be painfully obvious.

Great spacial info, no harshness apparent, great localization. Smooth top (except with MartinLogans- this is the same CDP used with them. I had the salesman move it to the other room, just to see if some of the harshness heard was caused by the CDP. It wasn't). Gave a great bit of the holographic effect I normally get only with vinyl. Phillips drawer mechanism. No blurring on complicated passages, no compression noted. All in all, one of the best CDPs I have evaluated.

I believe that this CDP would be a great adjunct to a decent vinyl rig, and I don't believe you would get much better sound from CD at any price- as close to analog as I've found in redbook. Of course, the CD has a great influence on the sound (well, duh;) ), but this unit betters my Sony SACD-777 in all areas of redbook playback.

Bottom line- a great unit, worthy of your consideration, and not excessively overpriced for the equipment you get (around $2K). If this is in your range, give this unit a serious listen. Not bad for genuine original coaster player- even Grumpy may find it pleasing:p:

[Thatch_Ear]

Did you have your own music with you?

[BrianB]

Originally posted by michael w
Haven't heard the Living Voice speakers.
But have read that they are pretty good value for money.

Do they have pinsharp imaging, maintain image size etc. over a wide area ?

Hi Michael,

The Living Voice speakers are quite special, IMO. If you want to get an idea of what they sound like, start with some of ProAc's best floorstanders (outstanding PRaT and soundstaging), but then add superior dynamics (these speakers are 94dB efficient, after all) and a noticeably richer and more natural tonal palette.

The off-axis imaging of the Living Voice speakers is indeed exceptional, provided that you toe them in so that the crossover point is about three feet in FRONT of the "ideal" listening position. This would be WAY too much toe-in for most loudspeakers, but it works perfectly for the Living Voice models.

Cheers,
Brian

[reyneman]

Thatch_ear- no. I really wasn't in the area to look at audio equipment, so I didn't have my discs.

I did, however, choose discs I was familiar with, along with using a few my daugter had and I have heard a fair number of times. Many tracks were, IMO, fairly useless for equipment eval, and I would need much more listening with my normal core of discs before I would seriously consider such a large purchase.

As I said in the post, if this is your range, give it a listen.