Well I've had this Marantz 2252 for a short while now and it sounds great. Love it. Hooked up a new technics 1200MK5/Shure M97x, and custom built 3 way towers.

My old amp was a 150 watt per channel hafler. Anyway I think the marantz sounds better for home use, vinyl media.

OK, so after around and above 1/3 volume, I get a clip, I think it's a clip, sort of a pop seems like from the midrange driver of the 3 way towers, but only one channel (so far I think it's just one). Turn it down a tad, and it goes away. Tried digital source, still there at same volume. So I ruled out the TT causing possible feedback/rumble. If I keep turning it up of course it does not help, and I really dont want to do that.

My hafler never did this.

So, I believe it has to be 1 of 2 things:

1) Marantz 52 watts per channel is not enough and I should have a 2325 :),

OR

2) There is some internel problem with the Marantz.

I tend to believe it's clipping.

But what is clip? I think it's the amplifier nearing it's limits of *something* that causes it to send distortion or *something* that causes a speaker driver to "pop" ?

I do sort of like music louder, so maybe a 2325 with 125 watts per channel would be up to what the hafler did, and the reserve power allows it to crank without clipping sooner??

Am I on the wrong track here you think??

It's a litle difficult to tell, as the diy speakers are an unknown quantity, so to speak. No offense, but, for example, what is the nominal impedance for the speakers? 8 ohms? 6 ohms? 4? What is the impedance curve like? You could have some nasty impedance dips, to 2 ohms, or lower, which could be giving your Marantz fits.

Efficiency of your speakers? Unknown? they might require more power, to reach your desired volume, than the Marantz will give, when coupled with whatever the impedance is.

Can you bi-amp your speakers? The Marantz on top, and a beefy amp for the LF, maybe even the hafler.

I am sure that others will have more questions. I should have, but can't come up with them, right now.

The "pop" you are hearing MAY be the voice coil "bottoming out" on one of the speakers as the amp tries to play loud and may be unstable in that channel and sending a brief surge of DC to one speaker (most properly working amps just start sounding 'nasty' when going into heavy clipping).

Switch the speakers on the channels and see if this "pop" effect moves with the switching of spealers, if the problem stayes with the channel involved, its the amp channel, if it switches, then its the speaker.

Mark T. :music:

It's a litle difficult to tell, as the diy speakers are an unknown quantity, so to speak. No offense, but, for example, what is the nominal impedance for the speakers? 8 ohms? 6 ohms? 4? What is the impedance curve like? You could have some nasty impedance dips, to 2 ohms, or lower, which could be giving your Marantz fits.

Efficiency of your speakers? Unknown? they might require more power, to reach your desired volume, than the Marantz will give, when coupled with whatever the impedance is.

Can you bi-amp your speakers? The Marantz on top, and a beefy amp for the LF, maybe even the hafler.

I am sure that others will have more questions. I should have, but can't come up with them, right now.

Thanks for the reply. I knew the speaker spec questions were coming, but they were built by a guy that did this for a living. I had the hafler at the time, and was only using digital media. I told him what volumes and what music taste I had, what room they would be in, if it had carpet, etc., etc., In other words, he asked the right questions. He built them to fit my taste and they are nicer than most speaker systems I have heard. And I do know they can handle a lot of kick. But I do not know the nominal impedance or the efficiency. I thought I used to be mister know it all when it came to speakers---before these I always used JBL drivers, or altec lansing, a few other brands, with homemade cabinets and I must have spent weeks with all kinds of different ports, placement, crossovers, tweeters, insulation, etc. etc., and, I never ever even came close to what these towers sound like now. They are mostly based on cabinet dimensions and internal placement, porting, etc., stuff I never could get myself. I do know the actual drivers are not expensive and not brand name, and still these sound terrific.


But they have always been able to handle high volume and never had a problem with them doing this. I dont have the hafler anymore so I cant biamp test it.

I sort of want to discuss what clipping is and what causes it, since I have heard that lower power amps tend to clip faster, using the same set of speakers.

The "pop" you are hearing MAY be the voice coil "bottoming out" on one of the speakers as the amp tries to play loud and may be unstable in that channel and sending a brief surge of DC to one speaker (most properly working amps just start sounding 'nasty' when going into heavy clipping).

Switch the speakers on the channels and see if this "pop" effect moves with the switching of spealers, if the problem stayes with the channel involved, its the amp channel, if it switches, then its the speaker.

Mark T. :music:
Thanks Mark. It will effect both channels when turned high enough, and the pop becomes more of a steady clicking/popping---no I dont want to do this for more than a second. Like I said, the hafler never did this, and I could thump these things. Probably better clipping/surging control in the hafler anyhow than a 70's marantz. The Marantz does have a nice sound, but I tend to think at 52 watts per side, when you start cranking, somethings going to give, no?

Sounds like clipping.
The DIY's were probably made with high watt drivers, and the marantz cannot handle the load.
The more wattage, the easier it is for the amp section to control the coil, keeping it from bottoming out.

If I were you, I would invest in a Marantz 2325 or so.
If not, then you may want a more efficient pair of speakers.

Parts Express (http://www.tkqlhce.com/rc122iqzwqyDFGGKHJHDFEGLLGEE) has good speaker building stuff.

Sounds like clipping.
The DIY's were probably made with high watt drivers, and the marantz cannot handle the load.
The more wattage, the easier it is for the amp section to control the coil, keeping it from bottoming out.

If I were you, I would invest in a Marantz 2325 or so.
If not, then you may want a more efficient pair of speakers.

Parts Express (http://www.tkqlhce.com/rc122iqzwqyDFGGKHJHDFEGLLGEE) has good speaker building stuff.
Thanks alexkerhead. You say the more wattage, the easier it is for the amp section to control the coil. It's funny you know, you would think it would be exactly the opposite. I mean if I had a low power amp, and high wattage drivers, it would seem like, how could the amp hurt the drivers in that manner? Because on the flip side, if you have a high power amp, and some low wattage speakers, you will send the cones thru the wall. Just trying to understand the reason why clipping occurs with low power amps/high wattage speakers.

On another note, and I dont know if this is allowed, but does anyone have a 2325 for sale? Cosmetics and the wood cases are really less important to me than a good functioning unit. It appears all the 2200 series are a lot less expensive than the 2300 series, and now I think I'm beginning to see why. thanks.

Oh K, I see, you guys are talking about speaker efficiency here. Sorry I am beginning to understand all this. I will have to say that since the speakers were also built knowing what amplifier I would be running, hafler p3000, they coupled nicely with it as far as rock the house power handling.

So is it safe to say that if a system is built like this, and the user (me) is known to crank the hafler, then the drivers used should be high watt drivers? That said, does that make them less efficient?

I can put it this way.
A strong man and a weak man have a 13lb iron shot-put each.
The strong man throws it as hard as he can without letting go and pulling back as quick as he can. This action is easy for a man who is particularly strong.

Now we take a weaker man, he has the same shot-put and is going to perform the same action. He cannot pull the 13lb iron ball back as quickly as the stong man.

This is the same principal with speaker coils.
The wattage allows the coil to move, the more wattage, the less "flailing" the cone does. This is why higher watt amps or receivers generally have better bass response above anything else being noticable.

It is quite easy for a woofer to bottom out from momentum with a amp that cannot keep it in the specified frequency distance, this is caused form the low power to the speaker.
A strong amp can pull the coil back quicker.

I hope this helps.

If I were you, I would start looking for some nice speakers that can take some abuse.
Cerwin Vegas are good for abusing..lol
Reason being, any TOTL receiver, especially Marantz, is going to cost you your first born child and three legs.
Or use the 2252 as a preamp to the hafler and hide the hafler..hehe

Hook up another set of speakers (with known efficency rating, obviously) to the Marantz- if the culprit is clipping due to some inefficency in the current pair, the problem will disappear. If it's happening now at only 1/3 volume on the Marantz, I suspect you'll hear it with different speakers as well, and find that the problem lies in the amplifier section of the Marantz.

tentoze, he said it was variable on bass, mid, and high controls, which indicated a preamp issue.

Got ahold of more info, the efficiency rating is around 90db, if that helps.

tentoze, he said it was variable on bass, mid, and high controls, which indicated a preamp issue.

I reread the thread and didn't see that anywhere. Regardless, whether the problem is in the amp section or the preamp, I don't see why getting different speakers is being discussed as a solution, but I'm no bench tech either.

I reread the thread and didn't see that anywhere. Regardless, whether the problem is in the amp section or the preamp, I don't see why getting different speakers is being discussed as a solution, but I'm no bench tech either.
I apologize, that was another thread I was thinking about. One about buzzing in the channels on a receiver.
I have to stop juggling 10 threads at a time..lol
Please accept my apologies.