Determining VHS VCR quality?

[John in MA]

Just wondering about this. Seems like every VCR these days short of industrial models are made by Funai in the Far East somewhere. I'm curious as to how three sort-of-older models I have would stack up. A Samsing VR8707 from around 1996, a Panasonic a year or two older, and a Sony N51 that's about 6 years old. The first two are Japanese, the Sony is Chinese. Am I correct in assuming the Sony is probably another farmed-out offbrand? I know it's dirt cheap--usually just pull it out as a spare. Right now I'm trying to decide between the Sammy and the Panasonic. Both work fine, both look the same, not sure which would have better future prospects. I don't plan on buying another one for years.

[Jeffhs]

I have a late-model Panasonic PV-4022 (mono, not fancy by any stretch of the imagination) I bought about three years ago. Works very well; I don't intend to replace mine for quite some time either, although I do have a DVD player. I have many old VHS tapes I like to see every now and then, and once in a while one of the TV stations/networks will have shows I'd like to tape for future viewing, so I find a VCR still very useful even in this digital age we live in today. I had a Pana VCR with VCR+ several years ago, but the thing ate a cassette--don't you know it, just hours (!) after I taped the program that was on it. I had to practically wreck the VCR to get the cassette out. :no:

I don't think Panasonic, or any other manufacturer for that matter, makes VCRs with VCR+ anymore; besides, my local newspaper hasn't had VCR+ codes in its television listings for quite some time--come to think of it, the national TV Guide magazine doesn't have VCR+ numbers with the program listings anymore either, but I think they did away with them when they started their new 8.5x11 format last year. Makes sense, since the new large TV Guide only shows national network listings, not local channels as they did until they changed the format. The local channels are still shown on TV Guide's website (just enter your zip code to get your area's local and cable stations), but again, no VCR+ codes.

I don't know why VCR+ is no longer included in today's VCRs; it was a very handy system, making it duck soup for anyone to program the unit for their favorite shows. Remember the jokes about VCRs flashing 12:00 after a power outage, and the owners, not knowing how to program the thing or reset the clock, just gave up, using the machines simply to watch prerecorded tapes? VCR+ ended that; all new VCRs have auto clock set using the XDS (extended data signal) from the local PBS station as well to automatically set the clock to the correct time. These systems made it almost disarmingly easy for anyone to use a VCR, but now that VCR+ has seemingly been discontinued and those older machines that still have it cannot use it because the codes are no longer published in TV listings, VCR owners are, in a great many cases, back to square one. I guess the TV industry figures VCRs are obsolete in this age of DVD and HD, so why bother with publishing VCR+ codes for those few older VCRs that still have the system? I know at least one person who is too young to remember the heyday of VHS; there are certainly others. Personally, I have had VCRs of various makes since 1984; as long as I have my collection of VHS tapes, a VCR will remain in my entertainment system, right next to the DVD. The machines (VCRs) may be obsolete, but for anyone with a large collection of VHS cassettes, they can still be put to good use, although many folks have transferred their VHS collection to DVDs. I would have done that myself by now, but as long as my present VCR works, I see no reason to replace it, even with a dual deck--VHS and DVD in the same cabinet. I know I could get a dual deck at Big Lots, for example, for far less than I paid for my first VCR twenty-two years ago (a Panasonic-manufactured GE), but since my present machine still works as well as can be expected, I'm holding off on purchasing a new one, for the time being anyhow. By the time I'm ready to get a DVD/VHS system, even those may be obsolete; given the fast pace at which technology changes in all fields, it wouldn't surprise me if DVDs themselves are obsolete in a year or two, or even sooner. Blu-ray is a new DVD technology just out, but I'm sure there are new technologies on the drawing board right now which may, and likely will, make even that system obsolete eventually.

Technology is constantly changing; I believe very strongly that all electronic devices are designed with planned obsolescence in mind. Look at CRT TVs vs. flat-panel. You can still get CRT TVs at almost dirt-cheap prices these days, but they are being phased out in favor of high-definition FPs; some day FP will be the standard, period. (All television broadcasting is to be exclusively digital by 2009.) By then the CRT televisions we use today, and have been using for years, will be either collectors' items (for very old sets, circa late 1940s-'70s) or will have long since been scrapped and sent to the landfill (for today's newer and not-so-new black plastic cube sets). The few CRT sets still in use by the time digital TV is the standard will be using converter boxes (for over-air reception; remember, there will be no more analog TV signals anywhere in this country by 2009) or else will be on cable or satellite, both of which currently carry digital and analog signals. New TVs marketed and sold in this country today must have an ATSC (high definition/digital) tuner already installed; the law originally required sets with screens 32 inches and larger to have ATSC tuners by next year.

However, I think the law will have changed by then, if it hasn't already, to include sets of all screen sizes. This would make sense, considering that all TV will be digital in some 2.5 years. Imagine being able to tell your grandchildren in 2010 and beyond (for example) about "the old days" when people used to watch televisions in big floor-standing cabinets, with old-style detent tuners (not to mention UHF tuners that tuned like a radio), and no remote control, with picture tubes and big outdoor antennas or rabbit ears. Better yet, if you still have an old TV with a CRT by then, show it to them and say that this is what we used to watch TV on years ago. If I were a betting man, which I am not, I'd bet they will be dumbfounded, surprised as all get-out, or simply won't believe you.

BTW, as to your question in regard to whether Panasonic, Samsung, etc. are "farmed-out" (outsourced) VCRs these days, I would say yes in at least one case. I remember reading somewhere here on AK that many if not most TVs and VCRs with American brand names are now being manufactured in offshore factories. I don't recall the brand off the top of my head (I'm guessing, however, that it may be Emerson), but I do know one of them is actually made by Funai and doesn't last very long. That figures, as today's electronic devices are, by and large, made to be throwaways after the warranty expires. Witness the number of RCA Guide Plus+ televisions, for example, some of which are only a few years old, now being sent to the landfill. A friend of mine told me his parents bought an RCA Guide Plus+ TV in the early 1990s; the CRT went bad after only two years. They bought a new one, same brand, that still works like a charm today. The irony is that they had a Zenith System 3 console TV before the first RCA that went without any problems for 15 years. This was back in the days when Zenith was still an American company, based in Chicago. Now see how many "Zenith" branded TVs get thrown out every year--it happens all the time these days. I put the word Zenith in quotes because there is no more Zenith Radio Corporation any longer, the company having split Chicago and gone to Korea in the late '80s-early '90s. That is why today's LG TVs, which formerly bore the famous Zenith lightning bolt logo on the CRT mask in the days immediately following the closing of Zenith, do not last terribly long. The first LG-manufactured "Zenith" color TVs were plagued with such things as frequent CRT failures after only a year or two, HV regulation problems, and so on.

I personally would not buy an LG television or VCR today--not after what happened to Zenith, which for years was my favorite brand of TV, radio and audio gear. To be fair, however, I do have a cell phone that was made by LG and is still working great, a year after I bought it--so LG did something right after all. This phone even survived a hard knock on a concrete sidewalk almost a year ago (it still works today and wasn't even scratched), which is why I say LG products are not all junk. But to have used the famous Zenith lightning bolt on its first TVs is, IMHO, besmirching the name of a company (Zenith) which made quality TV, stereo, radio equipment since its inception in the early 1900s (1918, to be exact). The founders of Zenith, by now almost certainly deceased, would probably spin in their graves if they knew what has become of it, 88 years later.

It was, IMO, a good thing LG eventually came to their senses and decided not to use the Zenith lightning bolt on its TVs any longer. As I said, the use of that famous logo on TVs not even made by Zenith is, IMHO, tantamount to (as good as or the same as) forever blackening the name and reputation of a company that for eight decades (before the LG takeover) made quality home-entertainment equipment which was found in many, many American homes in the company's glory days. (Thomson has done the same thing with the famous stylized RCA logo, which replaced the original round one around 1968 or so.) I have several vintage Zenith radios, one of which was made over five decades ago, as well as a Thomson-built RCA 19" TV made seven years ago in Juarez, Mexico (!), that still work well today. This TV, however, is the exception rather than the rule, as many if not most Thomson-made RCA TVs still are plagued with CRT and other problems, even though Thomson finally beat the on-board tuner problem a couple of years ago; once the ground points around the on-board tuner are properly soldered, the set will run trouble-free, from that source anyhow, for years; if you get a set with a good CRT, that will go for years as well--my CTC185 RCA has had only one small repair in the seven years I've owned it. Great picture on cable. Can't say enough good things about it. Sigh. If only all new TVs were as reliable as mine has been.

We will never see that kind of reliability again, unfortunately, :no: as long as just about everything is being manufactured offshore. Oh well . . . such is life in the 21st century, like it or not.

[dr.ido]

Those older Panasonics are generally reliable and are fairly easy to work on when they do need repair. They all seem to cook their power supplies eventually, but it's an easy fix. The error codes they generate for other faults are explained on various sites.

Most new decks seem to have very simliar mechanisms regardless of brand including VCR/DVD combos. Most that come through here have loadng faults and have broken plastic parts rattling around inside. I generally don't bother with them. I haven't seen any new Sony's though, so they may be better than average.

[Jeffhs]

I was looking at the TV Guide website (www.tvguide.com) just a few moments ago, and read a press release in the "Gemstar TV Guide" section that I believe has answered my question as to why today's VCRs do not have VCR Plus+ any longer. Probably due to TiVo having upstaged VCRs in the last few years. It's as I said in my last post: Technology changes all the time. VHS upstaged and eventually replaced Betamax VCRs; now TiVo is threatening to replace the VCR as the technology of choice to record TV shows for future viewing or archiving. However, VCRs are still much cheaper to purchase than TiVo's, at least for now, which is why I don't yet have a TiVo unit. I have seen VCRs selling at Big Lots for well under (and I do mean well under) $50, whereas the TiVo units I see advertised in Best Buy and Circuit City advertising flyers in my newspaper are still selling for well upwards of $150. TiVo will not replace VCRs entirely until TiVo has been around 15 years or so. Look at the first VCRs. The very first VHS machines were over $1,000 in the '70s and eighties, but they were made more solidly than today's rebadged offshore-made VCRs (using metal rather than cheap plastic parts, for example). My first machine, a Panasonic-manufactured GE, sold for over $300 in 1984. My current VCR, a Panasonic PV-4022, was only $89.99 from HH Gregg three years ago.

Given time, TiVo units will be as affordable as my current Pana VCR, as are many low-end DVD players today. My CyberHome DVD was under $25. I have seen many similarly-designed DVD players branded Polaroid and other "house" brands priced even lower at Best Buy and/or Circuit City. It's the law of supply and demand. As more TiVo's are manufactured and more people buy them, the prices will keep dropping and dropping, much as CRT TVs have experienced a price drop in recent months, but the latter is due to the fact that CRT televisions are being phased out in favor of flat-panel high-definition sets. DVD players are also dirt-cheap these days, if you don't mind buying a brand such as CyberHome or any of the rebadged units made by them--which is what a lot of people are doing these days, and why the CyberHome players are so affordable now. Supply and demand, again.

TiVo is a relatively new technology that has yet to take the country by storm, but as I said, when the demand becomes great enough, the units will become more affordable.

It is not impossible that some day in the near future, TiVo will replace the VCR, but again, IMHO, the prices of TiVo units will have to drop dramatically before the systems become anywhere near universal in American homes. There will be a market for VCRs for awhile yet as well, as long as people like myself have collections of VHS tapes, but that market may dry up and disappear eventually as more folks transfer their VHS tapes to DVDs using DVD recorders. I haven't done so with my collection yet; I'm waiting until I can afford either a standalone DVD recorder or a DVD/VHS dual deck. When I do get one I'll purchase something better than an el-cheapo Funai-made Emerson or other rebadged offshore-manufactured unit. I don't want to have the unit break down just hours (!), days or weeks after I buy it (I bought a GPX radio/cassette boombox about 20 years ago that broke down completely within three weeks of my purchasing it; :no: needless to say, I learned my lesson: no more GPX cheap stuff for me--I'm steering clear of that brand from now on).

[Markw]

As it stands, they are a commodity, nothing more.

With Tivo and recordable DVD's, they are slowly being relegated to the "obsolete technology" bin.

[reggaenaut]

Sony makes a reasonable VCR SLV-n750.