itunes rant/question (longish)

[tentoze]

I think I mentioned already that I don't particularly care for the itunes software, but I'm kinda stuck with it for loading this ipod up. I d/l'ed it onto the home computer today and let it go find the hard drive with all my music.

After doing whatever it does to catalog the contents of the hd, the way it displays things is driving me nuts. My hd is set up with individual folders for each album, but this itunes just lists all the songs in some sort of librarian-from-hell semi-but-not-really alphabetical order.

When I got the ipod last week, i d/l'ed itunes to my laptop and put 4 cd's on it that I had bought in Pittsburgh. Each of those 4 cd's are displayed wioth the album cover in the left margin, with the tunes on each listed to the right, and a demarcation line between albums.

I realize that there's a difference between loading a cd directly into itunes and having it scan and catalog existing music on the hd, but I can't understand WHY I can't organize the stuff the way I want to. I don't see ANY options in the menus that allow me to change things. Anybody got any help or am I just SOL?

[bentpencil]

When we loaded everything from my computer into my son's mp3 player, it did the exact same thing. No rhyme or reason to the order. No help here..................

[Eunomians]

You can organize by date added, artist, album, genre, etc, by clicking the top tabs in the main window. If you don't have all those tabs, or tabs that you 'like', then go to preferences and add more tabs (or less tabs).

[Johncan]

I use Ephpod... it does not organize your files for you. It leaves your files alone and in the formatted structure you have them in.

[streckfu]

On my computer, Itunes saved all the CDs in a tiered folder system with the artist as the top level folder (listed alphabetically) and then folders for each CD title with individual .mp3s inside the CD folders.

[tentoze]

On my computer, Itunes saved all the CDs in a tiered folder system with the artist as the top level folder (listed alphabetically) and then folders for each CD title with individual .mp3s inside the CD folders.

You must have some strong juju working that I don't.

[streckfu]

You must have some strong juju working that I don't.


Did you create a capture folder for Itunes or did it just dump the files anywhere?

[tentoze]

Did you create a capture folder for Itunes or did it just dump the files anywhere?

I didn't physically copy the files from their original location, I just let itunes catalog them so I could fill up the ipod, or so I hoped. The way it is now, even though I can get them grouped using the "Album" tab, when I load them on the ipod, it appears they will just be the same semi-jumbled mess. I want to copy albums, not a bazillion files and hit the random shuffle mode.

[mhardy6647]

Apple generally doesn't (IMO) let folks do what they want to, ever since their early, closed architecture days. That works for some folks, not others.

The iTunes s/w drove me nuts. I have a beautiful, laser engraved iPod my kids got me last christmas that I am not using because of the s/w. The player's operation is OK, but the computer s/w is... not so hot. Not to mention that it'll run on only one computer in the house (my wife's laptop).

[streckfu]

I I want to copy albums, not a bazillion files and hit the random shuffle mode.


That is a limitation as you have to build playlists. I've burned whole albums just by highliting the album and dragging it to the playlist. Granted, once burned, they are single files....

[ozmoid]

When you let iTunes organize stuff, it has a lot more control over how the content is managed. One problem may be the ID tags embedded in the music files - they can range from no info beyond the file name to Album, Artist, Composer, year of release, etc. etc.

I would say you don't need to let iTunes move your files, just add the right ID info it needs. When you "Get Info" on a track, one of the tab areas has an option to identify a song as "part of a collection". If that box is not checked, iTunes sees it as an independent track. You need to select all the tracks for an album, then edit the tags for all the files at once (just "get info" while all the tracks are selected.) Check the compilation box, and the tracks will display as you described the albums iTunes imported. You may have to go get a copy of the Album Cover and paste it in (or use a software utility that does it for you - there are quite a few that interact with iTunes.)

*TIP* The album covers on Amazon product listings are almost perfect for iTunes... no formatting involved.

Your problem is that iTunes does a lot of this stuff automatically when you rip a CD. If you just load your existing files, iTunes won't change that info for you. Far better with iTunes to start from scratch. I've had it from the beginning, and I like it. Once you let it do it's thing, I think it's a great media file manager.

[Negotiableterms]

The fault seems to be that iTunes has no way of getting info off of files already stored. Unless it does the original load, all it sees is files with little info.

It's a huge pain to have to reload all your music...

[streckfu]

My mother had a similar issue when she tried to rip CD without an internet connection. Itunes was clueless and she had to name each file individually.

[ozmoid]

The fault seems to be that iTunes has no way of getting info off of files already stored. Unless it does the original load, all it sees is files with little info.

It's a huge pain to have to reload all your music...iTunes reads standard ID3 tags. If it's an older version, go to the "Advanced" menu and select "convert ID3 tags". If the info is there, iTunes will find it. If your music was originally ripped with that info, no sweat. If not, you'll have to add it. I don't know if there's a way to force it to get the CDDB info for already ripped files, I've never tried, like I said I started from scratch.

One nice thing is "editing multiple tracks". Select and album's tracks, get info, and add album/artist/compilation etc. (all the generic stuff that is the same for each track). All that info will be added to all the tracks selected. No need to do each one individually.

Once you have all that information in, there are dozens of ways to sort your library, AND you can use the "Smart Playlist" feature. Make a new smart playlist, tell it to add any songs it finds in the library with X criteria, and you're done. When you rip more music, if it meets the criteria, it is automatically added to the playlist.

iLounge seems to be the place for good info-

Free book here: http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/news/comments/ilounge-releases-the-free-ipod-book-22-for-immediate-download/

Tutorials here: http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/tutorials/

"Tagging" Tutorial: http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/articles/comments/tagging-songs-in-itunes/

I think the iPod will do a better job for you with the correct tags in place for each track.

[tentoze]

The fault seems to be that iTunes has no way of getting info off of files already stored. Unless it does the original load, all it sees is files with little info.

It's a huge pain to have to reload all your music...

No way I'm re-ripping over 1,000 albums. This software is a POS.

[CarlV]

I feel much better about my mini disk software now if it is any consolation to you.


Carl

[ozmoid]

No way I'm re-ripping over 1,000 albums. This software is a POS.
If you know which version of ID3 tag your original software is using, iTunes will "harvest" the info for you. See my previous post.

There's also a shortcut for compiling tracks into an album format: With all the tracks selected, go to Advanced>Join CD Tracks.

You don't have to re-rip. If your previous software did not support standard ID3 tags, you may need to re-enter the Album/artist info.

[tentoze]

If you know which version of ID3 tag your original software is using, iTunes will "harvest" the info for you. See my previous post.

There's also a shortcut for compiling tracks into an album format: With all the tracks selected, go to Advanced>Join CD Tracks.

That command is greyed out (not available) when I follow those instructions.

You don't have to re-rip. If your previous software did not support standard ID3 tags, you may need to re-enter the Album/artist info.

A sampling of files I looked at are all ID3v1.1 or 3.2.

[redcoates7]

The software doesn't seem to be the problem here...I've got about 20 GB of music from all sorts of sources (some originally burned using Phatnoise software, some using Windows Media, some using iTunes and have NEVER experienced the sort of issues you're having)

If the data for your files was good originally it's going to show up jkust fine in iTunes. If the files information was corrupted in some way originally and you're getting blank fields, you can easily ad/change album, artist and song information in iTunes...Just click on "File", "Get Info" and then left click the tab labelled "Info" you'll now be able to change artist, album or track information as you see fit. If you've selected multiple tracks (say from an album or compilation you will be able to change all tracks at the same time.) Once the information has been changed, the "Artist", "Album", "Name" fields and so on at the top of iTunes screen should now sort by category...when I click on "Albums" I get an alphabetical listing of all albums in my library...same things for artists, or even song names (although the song names seems to be pretty useless)

I've used a bunch of mp3 management software in the past, and have found iTunes to be at least as good (and IMHO better) than any other...

Good luck, and don't let the initial learning curve frustrate you...iTunes is a very powerful tool!

[ozmoid]

OK, Toze, I'm stumped. Troubleshooting is really hard long-distance. I know there should be a simple fix for you, but without some hands-on with your computer I'm at a loss. Dammit! :nono:

[tentoze]

Well, I'm about ready to take a farking ball peen hammer to this iPOS.....

Decided to start loading it from the computer tonight, and get the message shown in the screen shot below. So it seems I've basically got an electronic paperweight.

Signed,
One God Damned Dissatisfied iPOD owner.

[uofmtiger]

Are you sure this is not a firewall issue?

[tentoze]

The only thing I'm sure of is that nothing about this piece of equipment works, including the shitty software that is required to use it.

[tentoze]

...and trying to do a "Restore" on it resulted in the screen shot below. Really fine piece of technology here, Jobs...

[RichPA]

Take it back. They'll give you your money back, or a new one that works, or - most likely - have a 17-year-old fix it for you ...

[uofmtiger]

First, I would turn off any firewall or antivirus software temporarily and try reinstalling the CD that came with the iPod. Maybe it will let you reload the firmware?

Also, you could give Ephpod (http://www.ephpod.com/) a shot to see if it works with your iPod. Your iTunes software does not appear to be operating properly for some reason and this could be the problem. I am really just guessing, but trying a different software and/or reinstalling everything might help.

[tentoze]

From the iPOS website:

"iPod products introduced on or after 12 Sept 2006 do not include an iPod or iTunes Install CD and require an Internet connection for use. If you have not already done so, you should download and install the most recent version of iTunes from: www.apple.com/ipod/start"

[uofmtiger]

From the iPOS website:

"iPod products introduced on or after 12 Sept 2006 do not include an iPod or iTunes Install CD and require an Internet connection for use. If you have not already done so, you should download and install the most recent version of iTunes from: www.apple.com/ipod/start"
Wow! They do not even include the cheap CD with it anymore? I should not be surprised. PC makers are not including backup CDs like they used to, either.

I would try to reinstall everything again. It sounds like something was messed up with the itunes software from the very beginning. You will probably need to remove iTunes from "add or remove programs" and start over.

[tentoze]

Wow! They do not even include the cheap CD with it anymore? I should not be surprised. PC makers are not including backup CDs like they used to, either.

I would try to reinstall everything again. It sounds like something was messed up with the itunes software from the very beginning. You will probably need to remove iTunes from "add or remove programs" and start over.

In-process of d/l'ing a fresh one now. 35 meg- good lord, and a resource hog when it's running as well.

[kbott]

Check out media center i have the older media jukebox version but they are a great music database manager with ipod interfaces

http://www.jrmediacenter.com/

[Johncan]

Download Ephpod... don't use Itunes. Save yourself the hassle.

John

[tentoze]

Download Ephpod... don't use Itunes. Save yourself the hassle.

John

From the ephpod website-

"# EphPod 2.77 (Latest NT/2K/XP) -- NOTE -- MAY NOT WORK PROPERTY WITH NEW IPODS"


Not encouraging there either.

[Eric H]

Glad to see i'm not the only one who thinks iTunes sucks!

I got an iPod for my Bday this week and love it, the pod itself it a wonderfully easy and intuitive piece of hardware but it took forever to figure out how to get the music I wanted loaded into it!

Oddly enough buying music from Apple and burning it to CD with iTunes is very easy.

[P. Shivers]

From the iPOS website:

"iPod products introduced on or after 12 Sept 2006 do not include an iPod or iTunes Install CD and require an Internet connection for use. If you have not already done so, you should download and install the most recent version of iTunes from: www.apple.com/ipod/start"

They forgot to mention the virus they included free of charge instead. :D We just bought our daughter a 30gb video iPod for her 16th birthday, and it came with the virus (http://www.apple.com/support/windowsvirus/). The irony of an Apple product intoducing a virus to my previously virus free PC was lost on me last night, as I was busy cleaning it off my machine. :mad: Perhaps you got lucky as well? It took me a little while to figure out how to get the music onto the iPod too. After getting rid of the virus, I had to reload the software, and start all over again.

[tentoze]

They forgot to mention the virus they included free of charge instead. :D We just bought our daughter a 30gb video iPod for her 16th birthday, and it came with the virus (http://www.apple.com/support/windowsvirus/). The irony of an Apple product intoducing a virus to my previously virus free PC was lost on me last night, as I was busy cleaning it off my machine. :mad: Perhaps you got lucky as well? It took me a little while to figure out how to get the music onto the iPod too. After getting rid of the virus, I had to reload the software, and start all over again.

Yes, mine had it as well, but Avast caught it and wiped it out before it did anything to the computer. I still hate itunes- it's a dreadfully unwieldy piece of software to be forced to use with such a clever device.

[Brudha]

Yes, mine had it as well, but Avast caught it and wiped it out before it did anything to the computer. I still hate itunes- it's a dreadfully unwieldy piece of software to be forced to use with such a clever device.

DVD Jon to the rescue (http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/ptech/10/24/ipod.code.ap/index.html)

[Elfasto]

So, of all the people that think iTunes sucks, how many of you use a PC with Windows OS?

[hpsenicka]

So, of all the people that think iTunes sucks, how many of you use a PC with Windows OS?

The choice of OS on your computer should be irrelevant when trying to select a portable music player.

Lets not start an OS flame war!

[drknstrmyknight]

The tags are the key, and if you've not been fastidious about tagging your music as you've ripped it, you're in a pickle.

Itunes will not look up tag information except when the CD is ripped.
Music Match is about the best tagger for individual files and will do them in batches.
If your files are well named and organized by album, mp3tag works failly well for full albums. http://www.mp3tag.de/en/ (free)

I've been using Winamp's library function for the past few weeks and it is about the best lightweight application I've found for moving stuff to your Ipod on a PC. Another advantage is that you can organize by subdirectory (folder).

Tagging is time consuming if done ex-post facto but vital. Now if I just had the time to fix all the genre info...

[Elfasto]

The choice of OS on your computer should be irrelevant when trying to select a portable music player.

Lets not start an OS flame war!

Not what I was attempting to do. Frankly I don't give a rats butt what OS a person prefers. Run Windows 3.1 or Linux/Solaris for all I care.

However, My wife uses a HP Pentium 4 PC w/ Windows XP. I do find that the Windows version of iTunes a bit more finicky compared to the Mac version for reasons I cannot explain (and I've been using iTunes since version 1.0 on the old OS 9).

For example:

-iTunes for XP will not open a Macintosh encoded iPod. iTunes for Mac will open a Windows encoded iPod, dump music and movies on it just like normal, but it won't update or recover (that's expected).

-iTunes for XP or XP in general will not open or recognize a Mac encoded iPod as a external HDD. Macintosh will for reasons unknown. Both windows and Mac will use a FAT32 formatted HDD.

-iTunes in general likes to organise music files like this:

:localuser/itunes music/music band/album/songs (which will include music videos if the tags identify it as a music video, not a movie)

or for movies:

:localuser/iTunes music/movies/movie file name

It just likes it that way, and you gotta admit, it's pretty organized.

-iTunes will copy everything into the above organization of files unless you tell it otherwise. Frankly having copies of music all over hells 1/2 acre is not what I like.

-iTunes will allow you to pick what filefolder you want your music to be stored under. I picked one and called it "iTunes Tunes OSX" :D

[meggy]

Ah. I see your problem. You can't use a ball pean...

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r279/meggy_030/itunes.jpg

I've never had outstanding success with i-tunes either. Real Jukebox Plus has worked well for me.

[birddog]

I'm sticking with Winamp pro, does just about everything you could possibly want, plus looks good doing it!

[2DualsNotEnough]

What I do is hit the tab on top,file,then click on new playlist,then click and drag every song from that album or artist into the playlist.I also go through and make sure I have the name of every artist and every song listed correctly,then you should get a pretty good listing when you open up your ipod.
Jimmy

[reyneman]

So Toze- is all right with your IPod world now?

I just picked up a SanDisk Sansa e280R, thanks in part to this thread of yours.

Haven't DL'd anything yet, don't know what I'll find for ease or conversion.

Of course, I also don't have the music loaded on my computer that you do.

[tentoze]

So Toze- is all right with your IPod world now?

I just picked up a SanDisk Sansa e280R, thanks in part to this thread of yours.

Haven't DL'd anything yet, don't know what I'll find for ease or conversion.

Of course, I also don't have the music loaded on my computer that you do.

It's more what I would describe as barely tolerable. I've never had the patience to go back and reorganize everything that itunes scrambled when it cataloged the hard drive, and that is kind of a pain, but manageable.

[onepixel]

What the hell are you guys doing?!

For CD track names and cover art you can go under "Advanced" and let iTunes grab all that info of the web for you. It may not get all of them but will find most of them.

With "List View" selected under "View/View Options" you can view, Name (of song), Artist, Album, Genre, Year, My Rating (your favorites), Play Count (how many times you listened to it), Last Played and 20 other list categories.

Set it up right and it will work wonders.

[ponderbear]

When you let iTunes organize stuff, it has a lot more control over how the content is managed.

Sorry if this is mentioned subsequently in this thread... but I read to this message and felt compelled to emphasize, you do NOT have to let itunes "manage" your files in order to use it to fill your ipod. If you deselect this in prefs BEFORE leading itunes to your files, it will leave your folders intact.

If you use the itunes store, though, it's best to let itunes take over your folders, as it has (as you've discovered, Tentoze) a certain way it likes to organize things, so if you buy Tommy in the store it will make a Who folder if you don't have one EXACTLY named what IT thinks the band is called. Things can get weird.

Even though Apple is forcing its scheme onto you, at least you'll be using that one scheme instead of multiple schemes. Yes... it's best if you just relax and let Apple assume control...

[tentoze]

What the hell are you guys doing?!

For CD track names and cover art you can go under "Advanced" and let iTunes grab all that info of the web for you. It may not get all of them but will find most of them.

With "List View" selected under "View/View Options" you can view, Name (of song), Artist, Album, Genre, Year, My Rating (your favorites), Play Count (how many times you listened to it), Last Played and 20 other list categories.

Set it up right and it will work wonders.

I think we're still talking apples and brussels sprouts. I didn't START fresh with itunes, a blank hard drive, and a bunch of music I wanted on an ipod. I had an 80 gig HD already filled and cataloged with music BEFORE I got an ipod, and thus, itunes in order to populate said ipod. I did not allow itunes to move all that 80 gig of files to some duplicated place on another hd. I only let it re-catalog the existing information in order to be able to put music on the ipod.

In so doing, itunes erroneously splintered a LOT of tracks out of their rightful places and tossed them into an unorganized "Various" heading. Among other brain-dead, absolutely moronic things. Alphabetizing artists by first name first is an insult to even marginally educated humans.

Maybe if one starts fresh with a blank hd, a stack of 1,000 cd's to rip, and itunes to do everything from the outset, it's some sort of magical, mystical experience. If not, at least in my case, it makes a fucking mess of things.

I've acclimated to the point that I use it grudgingly when I want some new tunes on the ipod (which isn't very often these days), but generally, speaking, I still say fuck itunes.

[onepixel]

I think we're still talking apples and brussels sprouts. I didn't START fresh with itunes, a blank hard drive, and a bunch of music I wanted on an ipod. I had an 80 gig HD already filled and cataloged with music BEFORE I got an ipod, and thus, itunes in order to populate said ipod. I did not allow itunes to move all that 80 gig of files to some duplicated place on another hd. I only let it re-catalog the existing information in order to be able to put music on the ipod.

In so doing, itunes erroneously splintered a LOT of tracks out of their rightful places and tossed them into an unorganized "Various" heading. Among other brain-dead, absolutely moronic things. Alphabetizing artists by first name first is an insult to even marginally educated humans.

Maybe if one starts fresh with a blank hd, a stack of 1,000 cd's to rip, and itunes to do everything from the outset, it's some sort of magical, mystical experience. If not, at least in my case, it makes a fucking mess of things.

I've acclimated to the point that I use it grudgingly when I want some new tunes on the ipod (which isn't very often these days), but generally, speaking, I still say fuck itunes.

Ok...didn't know you didn't start fresh. I could see the resulting mess now.

Sorry man.

[ozmoid]

In so doing, itunes erroneously splintered a LOT of tracks out of their rightful places and tossed them into an unorganized "Various" heading. Among other brain-dead, absolutely moronic things. Alphabetizing artists by first name first is an insult to even marginally educated humans.

Sorry Gentlemen, I had no idea this thread was resurrected, I would have checked in sooner!

Tentoze, you can force iTunes to organize things YOUR way, and still let it have control. It does mean editing the info in your files, but you can do it to large groups of tracks at once by simply selecting them and changing the pertinent info ONCE - it will change that particular piece of info for each song selected. You can form "various artist" tracks into albums, group tracks together, identify them as parts of compilations... lots and lots of options. Select a track and "Get Info" on it, there are a ton of things you can edit to make iTunes do what YOU want as far how the music is organized.

[tentoze]

Sorry Gentlemen, I had no idea this thread was resurrected, I would have checked in sooner!

Tentoze, you can force iTunes to organize things YOUR way, and still let it have control. It does mean editing the info in your files, but you can do it to large groups of tracks at once by simply selecting them and changing the pertinent info ONCE - it will change that particular piece of info for each song selected. You can form "various artist" tracks into albums, group tracks together, identify them as parts of compilations... lots and lots of options. Select a track and "Get Info" on it, there are a ton of things you can edit to make iTunes do what YOU want as far how the music is organized.

Yeh, and I could polish silverware until God-Come-Thursday, if I had the desire to. My music is organized the way I want it ALREADY, but itunes is too stupid to recognize that fact, and I'm damned if I'm going to slog through Jobs' sorry software so that it will.

[JimJ[VT]]

Yes... it's best if you just relax and let Apple assume control...

*shudders at thought*

[MaloCS]

The problem is not iTunes but the methodology Apple employs in the software. Apple wants the user to manage their music library from within iTunes and not the "explorer" environment. This is a 180 degree turn in how "Windows" users have managed their data since the operating system's inception. For years, us Windows users have used the "explorer" concept to move, copy, edit, delete and sort our data. This methodology is what iTunes and Apple is trying to get away from. In their eyes, there should be no reason why the user would ever access the actual location of the files when all of the "managing" capabilities are available from within the iTunes environment.

The information that Apple employs for managing files is the meta tag data. When managing your files in iTunes all that matters is that the meta tag data is accurate and present. With the meta tag information, and by clicking on the column header within the iTunes library pane one can sort by any number of variables.

Do you want to sort by genre? Then click the genre column header and all of your separate genres are sorted alphabetically. The same goes for Artist, Album, Bit Rate, Composer or any other item that is included in the meta tag. If a category is not displayed in the library pane then just access the view > view options menu item and select from any number of available categories. Once selected, this category will display in the library pane and offer the same exact sorting capabilities of the categories already present.

What if the meta tag information is not complete or inaccurate? Well, iTunes offers the user the ability to edit the meta tag data at any time. Just "right" click on the song and select the "Get Info" menu item. From here you can alter the meta tag information until your heart's content. You can even add personal comments to the track that can also be used to sort and manage the file.

What's that? You say you've spent uncountable hours manually managing your data in the "explorer" environment and you'll be damned if you let iTunes rename and resort all of your physical files on your hard drive. Well, you're just going to have to get over it. Believe me, your life will be much easier if you let iTunes rename and resort the physical files. Just focus on the meta tag information within the iTunes library for all of your file management and let iTunes take care of the physical files.

I just think of the iTunes library pane as a "window" in the "explorer" environment instead of a piece of software that accesses my music directory. This helped me get over the concept that I won't be utilizing the "explorer" methodology to manage my music collection. Once I got past this mental roadblock the whole "iTunes" management system became more convenient and easier to use.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's a really cool example of the iTunes methodology in action:
Let's say that "musician X" is your favorite artist and you have every song he's ever released. Your collection not only includes the CDs he's released but the movie soundtracks and compilations he makes appearances on.

Since you're an audio purist you don't believe in breaking up your soundtrack and compilation directories which results in "musician X" having tracks scattered throughout your music library. I.E. - They're not all contained within a "musician X" directory. Although this is the accepted method to manage your music library it will invariably result in confusion when trying to access that one song by "musician X" since that particular song may be buried several levels deep within the "explorer" environment.

iTunes solves this problem by allowing the user to manage their music library from the meta tag data. If the user wants to find that one song from "musician X" then they just sort by Artist Name. Voila! There's ALL of "musician X's" songs, regardless of where they're stored or what album they're on.

In this scenario, does it really matter what the actual name of the file is? Does it really matter where that file is located on your hard drive? I don't think it does. To me, all that matters is that I can access the file and manage it appropriately.

[mswer]

I'm not sure I'm quite grasping the organizational problem, but it sounds to me like your files are improperly tagged. In that case, what you want is something like MusicBrainz (http://musicbrainz.org/) or Tag&Rename (http://www.softpointer.com/tr.htm). Personally I use the latter so if you decide to use that and need a few tips to get started (it has too many buttons but it's a great piece of software), let me know.

Basically, what tagging software let's you do is select a folder of audio tracks (ideally that represent one album, which is I believe how you say your library is organized), pull track info down from Amazon or other CD info databases, and then tag the files. Once you have re-/tagged your files, all you need to do is go to the File menu in iTunes and select "Add Directory to iTunes..." and select the main folder where all your sub-folders reside. Then close and re-open iTunes. It will rescan all the tracks and have the tag info that you added with T&R/MusicBrainz and you will be be able to organize by artist, album, etc.

iTunes 7 has new sorting options (right click on track(s) and select the Sorting tab [it's called something like that]) and you have even more sorting options.

I think it's misguided to say that iTunes does everything for you and doesn't give you any organizational choice. I know where every track in my iTunes library is on my HD because I have it set up to manage files in a way that makes sense to me. I have my music organized by artist most of the time, but I have smart playlists for things like "Added in the last 30 days" organized by date added, "My Top Rated" organized first by rating, then artist, lists with genre, track length, and track rating limitations...the possibilities are myriad. MaloCS is spot on.

Once your audio files are properly tagged, they're totally portable to any media software that supports id3 tags (basically everything). Want to switch to WinAmp? It supports id3. WMP? ::shudder:: Supports id3.

For the record, I have over 10,000 tracks in my iTunes library, the vast majority of which I did not rip myself.

Hope this helps.

[ozmoid]

I'm not sure I'm quite grasping the organizational problem, but it sounds to me like your files are improperly tagged.

Not "improperly" so much as "incompletely". When the track/album info is manually entered, it's really easy to scrimp on the data to save time. Also, the CDDB will occasionally have entries where the data is incomplete or organized in an improper fashion, so that it does not work well in iTunes.

[RawDeal]

I went through Itunes frustration myself. I could not get Itune/QT to DL correctly. After after 3 install/uninstalls finally my daughter can use the damn thing. I have a Creative Zen Sleek. Works like a champ. You don't even need their software sync with WMP 9,10 11 perfectly. I suppose if you are a Mac user the Ipod would be the thing though. For Windows I will be sticking with a "Play for Sure" player. BTW my refurb 20GB Zen was $80 shipped. And has better sound than a Ipod Nano (IMO). I hope you get it working for you.
Brad