View Full Version : Infinity RSe Score!


Scorpion8
10-18-2006, 09:03 PM
Well, sometimes ya just gotta be persistent. I saw these this summer at a yard sale, but they were packaged with a cheezy cheap audio system and the guy wouldn't sell them separately. He wanted too much to buy them both and trash the sytem, so I left them there with my number if he changed his mind.

Well, have off work today (State holiday) so I was bumming around and decided to stop in and see the guy a few months later. Turns out he still had them, and was now willing to let them go without the trash accompaniment.

Infinity Reference Standard RSe speakers. Haven't hooked them up yet, but they appear to be in pretty good shape overall. The wood has some dings and they need to be refoamed, but that's about the extent of it. $30 for the pair.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28160&stc=1

http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=28161&stc=1

So, anybody know how thick the walnut is before I tackle getting the dings out of the cabinets?

Army
10-18-2006, 09:09 PM
Nice grab at a good price :thmbsp:

I would bet the veneer is about as paper thin as most, go lightly by hand would be your best bet.

Man I wish I'd find some smaller Infinities :tears:

Trust me I've been looking :D

Scorpion8
10-18-2006, 09:32 PM
Well, I've owned a set of Infinity RS 1.5's since college (circa 1982 .... had to counter my roomate's ARs) and have always wanted a smaller set of virtually the same thing. I cringed passing these up the first time, but turned out to be a better score this way.

Tedrick
10-18-2006, 09:49 PM
Way to go!! Looks like a later version of the Qe??

Scorpion8
10-18-2006, 09:58 PM
I love the Infinity sound! Gotta save and have them all!!

arrow 68
10-19-2006, 09:21 PM
I know Orion Audio is not the Gospel. They list for $45 used, and $26 wholesale mint. They look nice though.

SuperFeedFwd
10-19-2006, 09:58 PM
Way to go!! Looks like a later version of the Qe??

Yes, that is correct. Introduced in 1980 along with the RSb and RSa.

Tedrick
10-19-2006, 10:46 PM
Yes, that is correct. Introduced in 1980 along with the RSb and RSa.
Cool. I picked up a pair of all-original Qe's in excellent condition last weekend at a yard-sale for the princely sum of $15. All they needed was a couple of fuses and they sound awesome.

Scorpion8
10-22-2006, 07:15 PM
I hooked these uptoday to check out the EMITs as they tend to be a weak spot. Both of them are functioning fine, but one woofer made no sound. So I removed the woofer and one wire lead had come off the terminals. As I was putting that back I noticed the lead had broken off the crossover at some point.

Question: is it worth it to re-cap these now before I go much further? Does anyone have a crossover schematic for the RSe's? I jumpered the woofer lead and the woofer plays fine, besides needing to be refoamed. It appears as if the hot melt blue used to hold the crossover chokes in place dried out (?) as both the chokes are hanging by their leads, and there are big flat "donuts" of hot melt glue where the chokes used to be.

Any thoughts on re-capping the crossovers or technical schematics help would be appreciated.

Tedrick
10-22-2006, 09:18 PM
RSe Tech sheet with X-over Schematic (http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/technik/manuals/RSe_technical_sheet.pdf). You'll need Adobe Acrobat to view it.

Scorpion8
10-22-2006, 09:50 PM
Gawd, I love this place. You ask a question, post it, and somebody answers you asap. It's amazing. I love this place!!!!

Now, one item. The PDF of the RSe crossover looks nothing like what's inside my cabinet. The link above has a crossover that shows 1 cap, 1 choke, and one EMIT L-pad. The pic below shows the photo inside my cabinet. The crossovers appear original, as they are stapled to the inside of the cabinet and show no signs of alteration. But in the pic I see 3 caps, two chokes, 2 resistors, and the EMIT L-pad. The two chokes have fallen off their hot-melt glue mountings, and you can see the places where they were glued at. Oh, and a big honking transformer. That doesn't show on the schematic either.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/Scorpion008/InfinityRSECrossover01Spkr2.jpg

Any ideas? I'm a little stumped.

markb
10-23-2006, 12:20 AM
I'm still wondering if there is a difference in RSE and RSe.
Just a thought.

Scorpion8
10-23-2006, 12:56 AM
I think they're the same. I have a c1980 Infinity brochure that says RSe and the "e" is demoted like a subscript font. Same as is done on the RSa and RSb. However, if you go to the tech support side of Infinities Home Audio website, their pulldown list only says RSE, RSA, RSB, etc. I've never seen another Infinity speaker labeled as RSE. But as in this format, I can't make the font go subscript.

Kencat
10-23-2006, 08:15 PM
Scorpion8,

I can't see any picture with your post. Does it show up when you view the post?

From what you say, it sure seems like overkill to have a more complicated xover than shown in the schematic for a two way speaker.

I quess Infinity could have changed it later on in the production run. Hope someone else posts with the answer. Your picture of the speakers match those on the infinity-classics site from what I can see. Is the rear connector plate the same as the pics here? Says RSe. Notice that the schematic shows RSE though.

http://www.infinity-classics.de/infinity/models/Reference-series-1978-klein/RS-e/body_rs_e.html

Scorpion8
10-23-2006, 09:09 PM
Huh. Shows up fine for me. I put the attachment back so it can be viewed if the in-line pic doesn't appear.

Now tell me that doesn't look more complicated than the simple 2-way crossover implied.....

markb
10-23-2006, 09:14 PM
My wife picked up a pair about a month ago at a yard sale. New foam is here so I opened these up.

Scorpion8
10-23-2006, 09:17 PM
Yea, looks like the same crossover, altho your chokes didn't fall off their hot melt glue mounts like mine did.

markb
10-23-2006, 09:27 PM
I don't know anything about electronics. So whats the big white cylinder on yours and you have two yellow things and I have only one.

Scorpion8
10-23-2006, 10:13 PM
The large white cyclinder is marked 6.8k 100V so I assume it's a large blocking resistor. The two yellow cyclinders are capacitors. Oddly enough, mine are label 2.5uFD and 6.0uFD. In series, that would make 8.5uFD and the crossover diagram shows a 9.5uFD capacitor there.

But both the two (2) large inductors are labeled as 0.2mH and the crossover diagram shows one (1) inductor at 0.1mH.

Hence, my profound confusion. I have sent all of this to Infinity tech support and am awaiting their reply. The crossover diagram shows no transformer (top of pic), shows the L-pad for the EMIT tweeter but not the in-line fuse, does not show any of the network of caps and resistors in the woofer circuit.

Yea, I'm confused.

Kencat
10-23-2006, 11:13 PM
Scorpion8,

Sure looks like a mess. The only thing that does look ok, if my schematic reading is ok, is that the transformer you are refering to is actually the 0.1 mH iron core inductor shown on the schematic. The rest.... :dunno:

Looks like someone decided the simple schematic was broke and had to fix it. :screwy:

Hope you get an answer from Infinity. They've been pretty good so far on some enquiries I've made.

Ah hell, make it look like the schematic and see what happens.......what's the worst that can happen ?? :yikes:

Scorpion8
10-23-2006, 11:31 PM
Well, since markb's pic looks pretty close to mine, I think it's factory OEM for some reason different than the schematic. Maybe Rev.1 instead of Rev.0? I'll post Infinities response when I get it.

Bob E.
10-23-2006, 11:39 PM
It's undoubtedly factory...looks a lot like the crossovers in my RSb's (right down to the unglued inductors...). Glue them back up, spritz the pot(s) with DeOxit, refoam the woofers and be done with them. The only cap that could really have degraded over time is that small electolytic that is across the sandstone resistor. Frankly, I doubt there is anything wrong with it, I think the main enemy of components like that is heat. The mylar caps (white and yellow tubes) ought to be fine, so don't make more work for yourself than you need to...unless you like that sort of thing!

--Bob

Scorpion8
10-23-2006, 11:43 PM
Bob E --

Sounds like the exact idea I was thinking, not because it's too technically difficult, but because I'd have to remove the crossover and do a lot of extra work that's probably un-necessary. I'm going to wait until I hear from Infinity, but that seems like a good plan for now.

Scorpion8
10-24-2006, 09:23 PM
This is Infinity's answer. In other words, they don't say much or answer half of my questions.

I would not recommend making any changes to your crossover network. Your loudspeaker has a later version of the network that was not documented with enough accuracy to help you with exact values. If you want to test the parts, lift one lead from each part and test it with an LCR bridge. Coils will last virtually forever unless they are burnt up, and capacitors should have the value & voltage printed on them should replacement become necessary.

I went back and asked them again for a PDF of the crossover schematic, since mine is close to markb's but still not exact. We'll see if they reply.

Scorpion8
10-25-2006, 12:19 AM
And here's Infinity's second response:

From what I understand, that is the problem. Your crossover layout does not match the documents from engineering, all of which are hand drawn documents after the initial changes were made. Your safest bet is to compare with the other crossover.
Isn't that nice to know that systems were sent out with undocumented "features"?

Markb, buddy, I guess we go it alone.

markb
10-26-2006, 10:31 PM
These are first on my list for refoam but it'll probably be a week or two before I get to them. Haven't heard the EMIT's so I'm looking forward to getting these done. Hope yours go back together OK they look like they're worth the effort.

Kencat
10-26-2006, 10:53 PM
Scorpion8, Markb,

If you guys could trace your circuit, and put it into a schematic to post here, some of the more knowledgeable folks could perhaps make some sense of it and determine the xover frequencies and the "order" or "slope" of the system. I am just beginning to study this stuff and could take a stab at it (homework anyone ?), but it would be nice to have the supervision of some masters.

I suspect the additional components from the original design was to control the upper and lower frequencies of the woofer.

Perhaps we can develop the unofficial documentation for these to correct for Infinities laziness???

What do you think?

Scorpion8
10-27-2006, 12:21 AM
I think that's a wonderful idea, and I'll do it. I'm traveling for my job right now (on my way to Shemya at the end of the Aleutians Chain of Alaskan islands near Russia) but I'll do mine as soon as I get back (~3 Nov).

markb
10-27-2006, 06:43 PM
I'm in.

markb
10-29-2006, 09:46 PM
Here's a drawing of the crossover in my RSe speaker.I should have used a tripod to take the pic but I think it is readable my coil sybols are also incorrect.

PioneerGuy75
10-30-2006, 12:09 AM
I have a pair of RSa and the crossover looks very similar.....Mine have L-pad for "mid" as well as "high" I think the extra components are for controlling midrange output.

Hope it helps.

Scorpion8
11-03-2006, 11:21 PM
I just traced out my crossover using markb's schematic, and almost all of it's the same. Mine shows a resisitor dropping across the + and - terminals of the woofer at "6.8k" where his shows a cap. It might be mistaken for a cap as it's round and looks like the other caps, but is denoted as "6.8k" not "6.8u or mF". The pic may help. The huge inductor in the + signal path of the woofer also is "unknown" as nothing is printed or tagged on it anywhere. Also, my cap in that path is printed as "12.5mF" quite plainly.

Hmmmm, maybe I better draw it out and post it.

markb
11-04-2006, 12:08 AM
I checked the values and think they are correct if I'm looking at the right components. Her's a pic it may help.

Scorpion8
11-04-2006, 12:34 AM
Here's a drawing of how I read out my crossover. The mystery deepens ...

Scorpion8
11-04-2006, 03:48 PM
Oddly enough, the mystery deepens. I opened my other enclosure, as that woofer needs to be refoamed also. As it turns out, the crossover looks identical to markb's images and is decidedly different from the crossover in the image I uploaded here. The large cap marked "6.8k" is missing in the second speaker altogether, and replaced by a much smaller metal cap. Plus, the two 0.2mH chokes are actually well secured to the back panel, rather than just hot glued.

I'm pondering replacing both the crossovers with a standard 2-way set for the same crossover point from PartsExpress. Any thoughts?

Kencat
11-07-2006, 11:18 PM
So, looks like there is agreement on the 6.8 uFcap?

I was looking up what the K would be and came across this page which looks mighty informative:

http://xtronics.com/kits/ccode.htm

K means 10% tolerance...from what I can see :scratch2:

Are you guys sure about that parallel circuit of inductor, capacitor, and resistor ???, that is in series with the woofer on the + wire ??? That is one wierd looking circuit, not even a Zobel correction (from my neophyte studying tonight). Any more experienced opinions on this?

Looks like 2nd order (12dB/octave) filter design on both drivers. Funny that the tweeter is not wired out of phase, which is supposed to be typical with this type of design. Maybe that parallel/series-Ind/res/cap circuit is some kind of "Infinity" secret time alignment circuit that bypasses the need for phase inversion....and don't forget to put phasers on stun :D

Heh, some interesting reading here----->> http://sound.westhost.com/lr-passive.htm

Scorpion8
11-07-2006, 11:51 PM
Yea, I agree on the 6.8uF cap. One question would be why there's a small metal barrel shaped one in one enclosure, and a huge large big cylindrical one in the other.

And as far as the circuit mess before the woofer.... oh yea, I've traced than out a few times. It's there, it's odd, and it doesn't show up on any of the Infinity tech sheets anywhere. Oddly, their tech sheet crossovers are clean and lean, and then they put this jumble of stuff in the box undocumented.

My question for someone with far better crossover experience than me: should I rewire them per the tech sheets, and add in the fuse and l-pad for the EMIT, or just leave them as Infinity designed and built them?

markb
11-08-2006, 08:46 PM
This is all Greek to me but I did trace and retrace and trace some more so I was sure to get it right. I will open the other speaker to see if it's the same.

Kencat
Thanks for the links. This is valuable info. that will help in understanding the interworkings.

Scorpion8
11-08-2006, 09:49 PM
I triple traced mine also. I think ours are identical except for the parts that aren't. :scratch2: I have that one big arse cap labeled as a resistor in the woofer circuit, but we all know it's a cap. Also for some reason one crossover has the two capacitors adding up to 8.5uF and one enclosure has a single cap at 8.5uF. It also looks like your cap value in the woofer network is different from mine, and I triple checked that value. Mod 89 Rev 175, I guess.

An of course very little of this shows up in the tech sheet. :thumbsdn:

Kencat
11-08-2006, 10:27 PM
My question for someone with far better crossover experience than me: should I rewire them per the tech sheets, and add in the fuse and l-pad for the EMIT, or just leave them as Infinity designed and built them?

I'm no expert scorpion8....but why not try them as thery are? May as well see how they sound, and enjoy those puppies. You can always try the simpler circuit as a trial later and you'll have something to compare to.

I was reading that Infinity used a complex Inductive/Resistive/Capacitive network on the woofer in the QLS. Maybe they tryed a similar thing on the RSe's. Gotta believe they would not have incurred all the extra cost for no good reasons. The original simpler design may have had problems.

Hmm, looking at what I just wrote, it could be the other way around where they cheapened out and went from complex to simple. :dunno:


Ah hell, fire them up dude :thmbsp:

Scorpion8
11-08-2006, 11:25 PM
That's probably what I'm going to do. They probably worked fine as they were from the factory, so once I get the woofers refoamed (<tap> <tap> <tap> waiting for PartsExpress) I'll set them up in my bedroom and see how some classic Rush sounds.

It's just, well ................ a mystery.

ETA: ps- In a weird odd way, I feel better since markb's looks identical. I have more confidence that it's what Infinity intended.

Scorpion8
11-08-2006, 11:48 PM
Just as an aside, here's a pic of the crossover of the other RSe of the pair. Note the nice clean construction compared to the first one.

markb
11-09-2006, 10:12 PM
I opened speaker #2 for comparison and found the same. Now I need to make time to refoam but I just received 2-passives and 2-mid bass drivers for my main speakers, VMPS Tower 2's so thats the weekend project.

Scorpion8
12-19-2006, 09:35 PM
Finally got the refoaming finished, cured for a week, and then set up in the bedroom system. The stands put the speakers right at level with you as I lie in bed and watch movies. I burned them in with the new Lorenna McKennitt CD called "An Ancient Muse". It has some really low bass from wood wind instruments and these babies make the room rumble. I love the Infinity sound, as the EMITs are so pure and clear. The speaker grilles are being redone right now in new Infinity-brown and once they go back on the oak speaker finish and brown grilles complement the room decor and furniture completely.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/Scorpion008/PC190077.jpg

CAK1
12-20-2006, 10:07 PM
Need I remind you of my Infinity mystery:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=77622

markb
08-06-2012, 10:29 PM
ndFinally got the refoaming finished, cured for a week, and then set up in the bedroom system. The stands put the speakers right at level with you as I lie in bed and watch movies. I burned them in with the new Lorenna McKennitt CD called "An Ancient Muse". It has some really low bass from wood wind instruments and these babies make the room rumble. I love the Infinity sound, as the EMITs are so pure and clear. The speaker grilles are being redone right now in new Infinity-brown and once they go back on the oak speaker finish and brown grilles complement the room decor and furniture completely.

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p141/Scorpion008/PC190077.jpg

Welll I'm a little slow, got mine refoamed today and hooked them up in the shop to my Soundcraftsmen shoe box and 4100. Put Steve Miller on, can't wait to go out tomorrow and explore further.

RickeyM
09-25-2012, 12:19 AM
Well, since this thread's been bumped up, I might as well join in. More than 10yrs. ago I got a pair of RSe's. The foams went shortly after that and I knew nothing of repairing them. The EMIT's were pulled to use in my car until the diagrams were pitted & destroyed/got tossed and the rest sat idle. Somewhere along the way, one of the x-o's (it's the complex one) got removed and is MIA. I think I'm going to resurect these. The only worry is what can I get to match that transformer or can it be made to work without it? I've got some surrounds and the crossover should be easy thanks to you guys. I just have to get a pair of EMIT's.
What say all, should I go for it?

BTW, that network inline with the woofer is a Parallel Notch Filter.