Wow! Bottlehead Paramours for $399...

[TIC]

Well, I did it now! I could not pass up the current sale at Bottlehead. I ordered a pair of Paramour Mono-block kits for $399!! I figure that you can't go too wrong at that price and I am looking forward to the assembly process as a means of learning more about the circuit.

This "deal" will not last long, so order NOW if you want a pair of highly regarded 2A3 amps for only $399. Delivery is 6-8 weeks, so I'll let you know my impressions in a couple-o-months.

Enjoy,

TIC

BTW, speakers will be Adire HE10.1s.

[Thatch_Ear]

Listened to a pair at a friends driven by a Foreplay. Great sound for the money but you got to do some tube rolling to get em really singing. Can't remember what the 2A3s are that he settled on but it was the 3rd set and were NOS, the drivers if I remember right are 12AT7s and last I heard some Telefunkens were working the best. I know he said the floor dropped more from them than the others he has tried. This weekend he is on the prowl for more flavours of 12AU7s for the Foreplay. I'll have to get him on this group. The guy designs and builds horns. Big ones too!
Thatch

[TIC]

T E,

The stock driver tubes are Valve Art 2a3s. Should be a good bit of fun plying with the Bottlehead kits. I do think I will keep at least one of my Monarchy SM-70s to use while I'm messin' with the Paramours.

Enjoy,

TIC

[Rob]

TIC,

Not to discourage you from a SET experience but I went back to a previous post and see that you have been listening to a pair of Dynaco MK-III's (60 watts RMS each, powerful tube amp) into a pair of speakers that look like they probably need somewhat more than 3.5 watts each. If you aren't planning on getting a set of 100 dB horns I fear that you might need the hearing equivalent of night vision glasses when you switch over to your Bottlehead SE's. BTW, they look pretty nice for the money.

If you want a good place to store those MK-III's my place is available. Maybe we could make a deal.

Rob

[TIC]

Rob,

I've actually heard my speakers with the Consonance Billies and they had plenty of volume. I'm hoping for the best with the Paramours.

BTW, my speakers are 95db eff. and a very easy load with a minamalist crossover.

Oh yeah, room is small and a nearfield setup.

Enjoy,

TIC

[Rob]

TIC,

Oh good. I'm glad you are going into this with a little research first.

Enjoy,

Rob

[MikE]

Tom stopped by and we hooked up his - Adhire HE10.1 - speakers to my Moth s45 SET. I believe we tried both the RCA bi-plate 2a3's and some ST 45s and Globe 45s. The ST 45s output 2wpc and the Globes slightly LESS. Tom can correct me but I don't think we had any problems in my (then) 20x15x9' room.

Tom, I think you've made a wise choice. Everyone seems to love those amps, and think about all the fun you'll have building them. I've not gotten up the nerve to construct a kit. I seem to have more fun taking an existing component and stripping off the stock parts and fitting it with "custom or upgrade" parts. One of these days...

MikE

[Thatch_Ear]

The basic design of the parafeeds was done by an ex fighter jock EE that was Dennis Boyle's partner in Chimera Labs, John Camille. John Camille also wrote an article on the research and building of a SE 211 amp that he and Dennis built that was puplished in the summer edition of the 93 Sound Practices Magazine. The guys at Bottlehead called him Budda, so if you are ever poking around that forum and see something about Budda it is about John. He undoubtably flew and worked with my uncle Bob Ashcraft who also flew Phantoms out of Thailand. They had both died by the time I found out John had been a Phantom driver and never got the chance to find out if they were out chasing Migs together. John left most of his toys to the Bottlehead guys, though through some weird chance I have his 604s in my dining room.
Small world isn't it?
Thatch

[TIC]

MikE,

Yeah, the Moth provided plenty of power in your room w/ my HE10.1s. My room has significantly less volume than yours and my speakers should be a bit easier to drive than yours.

Anyway, It's only < $425 including shippping for 2 amps. How can one go wrong?

Enjoy,

TIC

[Thatch_Ear]

Tic,
Though I did spend a long time listening to the 2A3 kits I really can not even give you a clue as to the bass response as the owners horns were built for 80 Hz and up, and the bass horn was run off a different amp. Johann's set up is a CD transport, Dac, active cross with 80Hz and up going to the Foreplay and lower to some kind of a pro monster amp( Crown?) that ran the 18" driver of the bass horn. The volume of the bass horn was done at the active cross while the Foreplay had an attenuator set for 3db per position. He got the Foreplays basically where he wanted them, dialed in the bass and then fine tuned the Foreplay with the active cross.
I don't know a thing about the parafeed circuit and it seems not really rely on wide bandwidth OPTs as the transormers all looked small to me. I can tell you that what I heard was great but what actually came from the Paramours was only 80 Hz and up. I am very interested in finding out how the bass responce on your 95db Adhires. And since you and Mike have rolled together with his amp and your speakers I want you to know that there is also a 3rd option for power in a 2.5 fil 300B you can pop in there.
I am stuck with 300Bs but you can roll 2A3s, 45s and 300Bs. I bet you spend more money on tubes than the amps!
Thatch

[KCM]

Hey Tom,

Good to see you here. I was thinking of trying the Paramours myself, but Danny Richie doesn't recommend them for my Paradox 3's. Need a bit more oomph.........

Thatch, you reading this ? Did you hear Danny's Paradox 3's at the DIY event (I saw your pic in the event coverage) ? If so, thoughts ? I've been very pleased with mine, although in some ways I prefer my Magnepan MG12's. The 300B SET amp I borrowed really made the P3's sing, and I am considering buying it. Before I spend the big bucks, though, I'm looking at some other, hopefully cheaper, options. Danny recommends Gary Dodd's 8 watt amp ... "The Dodd Amp is an all triode, class A, push-pull, no feedback, tube amp using 5687 output tubes and 6SN7 driver tubes". Do you have any familiarity with this amplifier ? Thanks in advance for your thoughts !

Ken

[Thatch_Ear]

KCM,
I got to the event fairly late but I think I did hear Danny's Paradox 3s. Tell me what they look like and I will know better. The thing is that Danny does design and build with power in mind. Dodd's amp( it was an 80 watt per channel I think with 4 pentodes per channel) had broken down by the time I got there so I didn't get the chance to hear that. I missed a lot of the listening but caught better than 50% of the speakers I think. I did find that the guys that listened were very good but tended to push the envelope with everything they listened to everytime they listened. Not really the way I like to listen, but they were evaluating the strengths and weaknesses of every thing by turning it ^^^^UP! So in a way it was negative listening looking for the weak points and often passing up the strong points. I don't thing that the judges used that approach but it did seem the norm for the listening rooms when speakers were changed out.
I am impressed that the 300Bs got good responce out of Danny's speakers because it seemed that most of the speakers he built were under 90 db. Course that 300B amp you were using looked it would use every bit of power a 300B might offer up. Not really understanding the design I know that it was built by someone who has been building gear for a long time, or has built a lot of it. The layout is a thing of beauty. I still don't get the driver tubes next to the power supply but by looking at the layout I know that the loss there must have been more than compensated for someplace else and/or (and better yet both) it was isolated enough from the chassis that the vibration would not bother the what looked like high to med MU double triodes used to drive the 300Bs.
If you happen to live in this area tell me and I can hook you up with a guy that has 4' wide, 10' tall stats that are tube driven and he has one of those 50 lbs platter belt driven TTs we all see pictures of. He would be able to give you a lot more info on Tube amps for stats and he has other systems with tube amps and dynamic drivers as well. I need to get over to his place soon to pick up some tubes I loaned him to roll. If you aren't in the area then I can give him your email and he might guide you better than I can.
I have some small pannel stat speakers and have listened to lots of Maggies and a few other brands. Nothing could prepare you for this guys set up. And his gear is all tube from a Curcio preamp to what ever the monsters sitting at the bottom of the stats are. I do know they are PP but not the power tubes.
Thatch

[KCM]

Thanks for your thoughts David. Here is a link to the DIY event, you will find a pic of the Paradox 3's there : http://mywebpages.comcast.net/kidder/Audio/Events/DIY_Texas_2001/DIYTX01.htm

Danny apparantly uses the 8 watt (not 80) amp to demo most all of his speakers (except the line arrays). I am confident that it will be powerful enough for the Paradox 3's. I was just curious about the character of the sound if you had listened to the combo. Here is a link to the 8 watt Dodd amp: http://www.gr-research.com/dodd_amp.htm

Maybe I confused you by mentioning the Magnepans; I am using the pre outs of my existing tube amp driving a old Mitsubishi dual mono SS amp that I recently bought from AK "Don". Plenty of power at 135 watts into 4 ohms, and this combination sounds really nice. Not looking for a high power tube amp for those.......yet. Hmmmmm, I do have a Mcintosh MC-60 that was given to me and it's been asking for a mate.............

Oh, and quit complimenting that 300B amp, you're going to cost me too much money :p: :p: :p:

Ken

[Thatch_Ear]

I think I heard those with a class A SS amp, Goertz cables. All I can tell ya and I am bound to be wrong, I remember the site of them, and if I actually listened to them it was in the budget class room. All I can tell you was that there was a transport,Dac and a class A mossfett with a torroidall power supply and 30 watts per channell. Danny was doing some business and I think that one of the sets that were brought into that room during that hour might be the same as yours. He was of course tryind to sell(and rightly so) some kits. I can't say that I really paid that much attention as I was tired of listening to things over normal listening levels and there were really a lot of really cool toys to look at. This was maybe an hour before those photo shots were taken.
By that time I was more interested with talking about gear than listening to it.
But I am familier with Danny Ritchie and David Dodd and what they are looking for in sound. As far as I can tell besides perfect sound I don't think their worlds collide that much except for financially. I could be way off base here but the gut feeling that I got was that Dodd was involved so as not to loose sales to tube guys for Danny's speakers. Dodd's amps are available for those that don't like SS but do like Danny's speakers. I don't think that Dodd fans are really that intersted in Ritchy's products. Again I could be way out of line and off base but it was just a feeling that I got. Dodd was there for customers that had to have tubes for Danny's speakers.
Danny's speakers were for the most part very good. I was most impressed with the 3" TB sattalites he had made. They were the best near field voice monitors I have ever heard. Around 100 hz and up of magic.

[KCM]

David, PM'd you

[Thatch_Ear]

I don't think the little class A PP was at the event. It was to my understanding that Danny's main rig was a SE SS 30 watt per channel, Goertz ribbon cables. Not a lot of power unless compared to a SET. Reason I mentioned low efficiency is that most all the drivers used were less than 90db except for the ribbons, this being throughout the show. The only speakers I am 100% sure that he built were using 86 db drivers. Some others that were cloned from other guys designs typically were using multi 6"ers that were more than likely less than 90db. The line arrays are from what I understand at Dodds' place here in Dallas.
I have never been to Danny's shop but know someone who has, and he said that Danny had his mossfet running, no tubes,but hooked him up with Dodd this being in the middle of last Janurary.
If you log onto DIY Audio Corner you know there is very little said about any high efficiency drivers, probably because of AA.
Thatch