I need a cartridge for one of my turntables (a thorens), and so far I am striking out at finding one that actually sounds any good t me. Now let me state for the record that I am a MC guy, and that I have not delved into the world of MM cartridges in over 20 years. And I consider the Denon 103D to be the cheapest genuinly decent sounding cartridge that I have ever used. But I can't use a MC in my application, so it has been ruled-out here.

The only reason that I am even looking at MM carts, is that I need a cartridge that is capable of having its stylus swapped-out on occasion to play 78s. That limits the avaialble field of choices down to a vey slim few.

I have tried a Sure 97 (whish has a tip that can be swapped for a sure 78 tip), and I was not impressed. The sound is has a somewhat "honky" coloration in the upper mids, and it does not reproduce very many instruments with the kind of harmonic richness that i would hope for, and the soundstage is quite flat, and the sound is barderline lifeless. Strike 1...

Next I tried the ortofon OM 10. I tride this one thinking that it would give me at least a clue regarding what the rest of the OM line sounds like, thinking that maybe a 20 or 30 might suit my needs. Unfortunately this cartridge sounded thin, but it did have just a little more detail, and a wider soundstage than the sure. But the sound was so thin, and the harmonic accuracy may have even been worse. My guess is that the 20 and the 30 probably get some of the harmonic issue resolved, but that they probably share the same "thin" family sound. If I am wrong in this assuption, then please tell me. Strike 2...(probably)

As my next (and hopefully last try), I am considering a Grado Silver, or possibly even a gold. Grado makes a 78 Stylus that fits into this cartridge, so this looks quite promising. Has anybody out there evere played around with one of these? This is a much more expesive cartridge, so I am much more hesistant to try it, unless I have reason to beleive that it will sound significantly better than my previous attempts.

And no, a 78 only cartridge is absolutely NOT what I am looking for here. I want a genuinely good sounding cartridge for stereo playback that can also do double-duty as a 78 cartridge on rare occasion.

Opinions anyone? Are there any other contenders that I am unaware of?

I had a Grado Gold cart and loved the sound. However, the area where I live is notorious for RF interference, and the Grado unfortunately picked it up because it's not shielded. Which is why I now use a shielded cart.

Maybe a different headshell for your 78 setup?

John

I've never used a Grado Gold because I'm a cheap date, but I love the Grado stuff that fits my budget (Green). The stylus replacement is a delicate process on these cartridges so I would strongly recommend a two headshell setup, but if your hand is steady enough, you can get away with swapping styli on occasion. BTW, what table are you using? (33 AND 78 on one, good sounding table???)

I've never used a Grado Gold because I'm a cheap date, but I love the Grado stuff that fits my budget (Green). The stylus replacement is a delicate process on these cartridges so I would strongly recommend a two headshell setup, but if your hand is steady enough, you can get away with swapping styli on occasion. BTW, what table are you using? (33 AND 78 on one, good sounding table???)
The TT is a Thorens TD-126 MK II. And I would love to obtain another headshel for my arm, but it has not been made in over 20 years, so I think that I am pretty much SOL on that idea. :sigh:

RFI is not a problem where I live, so I don't think that being unshielded will pose an issue for me.

Does anybody know if the TD-126 has an entry in the "grado hum database" that I have read about from time to time. Also, where exactly may one find this "database" anyway?

I had a Grado Gold cart and loved the sound. However, the area where I live is notorious for RF interference, and the Grado unfortunately picked it up because it's not shielded. Which is why I now use a shielded cart.
Good to know that at least one person thinks it sounds great, even if there are RFI/EMI issues. :thmbsp:

Anyone else with different opinions?

You din't mention wat tone arm you are pairing it with. I know that the better vintage MM cartridges like the Shure V15-111 or Grace F-9 were high compliance and paired best with straight low mass tonearms. I personally like the vintage Shures over the 97xe. I have tried the V15-ll and the M95-ED both with oem styli. I am currently using an Acutex STR320lll with a Kenwood KD-550 which has turned out to be a great combination. Unfortunately these cartridges are pretty much extinct and unavailable, but the V15s and Graces are not.

Hi Goldear,

Here's a copy of Sansui Louie's data on a spreadsheet:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6047
The Thorens TTs seem to do well as a group with Grados.
I'd give the it a whirl. My Green and Red Carts are only surpassed by my Shure V15-vxmr in the lush warmth + detail factor.
Admitedly, I've not had a Silver or Gold in my limited cart stable, but the Green/Red playbacks have been so satisfying I haven't felt the need to "upgrade'.
For an "MC Guy", it's interesting that you cite the Denon DL103D which many call (in positive tones) the most MM/MI sounding of Denon's line. You may be a closet MM lover. Welcome to our world!

Interesting I went to the database and looked up my Pro-Ject 1.2 which I use a Grado RED on the chart shows no hum.

ONLY thing is in my case I have very obvious hum that gets louder as the cart gets closer to the 120V unshielded motor. So I'm not sure if all the info in the chart is accurate.

I do love the sound of the RED though

I've used the Green on a cheeseball pioneer direct drive, an Onkyo CP-1011F, and two different Project/ones (belt and direct drive). The only one I had a noise issue with was the cheapy pioneer (all plastic, P-Mount arm).

Might I, humbly, suggest that you sample a cheap Grado first? IME the Grado line has (and always had) a house sound, bottom to top of the line. I quite like it; you might not (although based on your comments, actually you might like it). You can find out for less than $100 if you do!

Do you have the standard TP-16 arm or a custom arm?

If it is a TP-16, then it would not be too difficult to find an extra head shell.

I see that you moved below the $100 mark and tried the Shure 97, just for fun try the Audio-Technica AT-95E. Don't be turned off by the price. It might not be what you are looking for, but it is a surprising little green thing worth trying.

----EDIT----

Oh by the way, I am running the Thorens TT with an Ortofon OM-10 and on the Yamaha I use a Yamaha MC-1 and an AT95E.

The Ortofon will benefit from precise alignment, including VTA. Trust me on this, as I found out the hard way after using OMs for 20 years misaligned! :cry:
Tom

Do you have the standard TP-16 arm or a custom arm?

If it is a TP-16, then it would not be too difficult to find an extra head shell.

I see that you moved below the $100 mark and tried the Shure 97, just for fun try the Audio-Technica AT-95E. Don't be turned off by the price. It might not be what you are looking for, but it is a surprising little green thing worth trying.

----EDIT----

Oh by the way, I am running the Thorens TT with an Ortofon OM-10 and on the Yamaha I use a Yamaha MC-1 and an AT95E.

Unfortunately I have a grace 704, which is a rather uncommon arm of unipivot design. Spare headshells for these are not exactly easy to find. :no: I don't know the effective mass of the arm, but it seems to be in the lower-medium-ish mass category, so higher compliance is appropriate here. Although, the fact that the arm uses a viscous damping mechanism, allows it to work OK with somewhat lower compliance carts too.

I'm not aware of AT making an interchangeable 78 RPM stylus. Please enlighten me if I am ignorant on this point…

And I think that there is a chance that one of the higher-end OMs might be just OK inside this application, but I still expect that the sound would be thin, and I have concerns about running too fine-line of a stylus on a unipivot arm such as this. So I’d prefer to stay with either ellipticals, or hyper ellipticals.

For an "MC Guy", it's interesting that you cite the Denon DL103D which many call (in positive tones) the most MM/MI sounding of Denon's line. You may be a closet MM lover. Welcome to our world!
I'm not so sure that this can be said as much about the D version which I own. This is probably more true of the many versions of the 103 that have the conical stylus; mine is very definitely an elliptical.

The only reason that I cite the 103, is because I consider it to represent the least expensive, decent sounding cartridge that I have ever heard. Sure it lacks some of the detail, liveliness, etc that some of the better MCs have. And I do prefer the sound of better MCs. Yet it still has pretty good detail (MUCH better than any MM cart I have auditioned), and it has good harmonic, and tonal accuracy: ie: the instruments genuinely sound like they are supposed to. The MMs I have auditioned so far have fallen very short of the mark in this regard. Unfortunately, I consider this to represent unacceptable performance.

My guess at the moment is that a Grado, of one form or another, is very likely to be my best bet. I might consider auditioning a lower-end Grado. The key is that I need for the stylus to be interchangeable with a 78 stylus

Before I took it out of service, I had a Grado Red P-mount on a plastic Pioneer PL-670 that I felt got the most that turntable was capable of. I'm currently using a Clearaudio Aurum Beta MkII MM cart on a VPI HW-19 MkIII that I am quite smitten with.

Goldear I missed the part of "has to play RPM 78", Shure makes at least 14 cartridges with the name 97, I guess the one you mean is the M-97 Series 78.

And I agree, I don’t think Audio-Technica makes an interchangeable 78 RPM stylus.

Sorry about the mess up.

The Grace 704 looks nice, but as you say it will be hard to find an extra headshell. You do have the OM?

Goldear I missed the part of "has to play RPM 78", Shure makes at least 14 cartridges with the name 97, I guess the one you mean is the M-97 Series 78.

And I agree, I don’t think Audio-Technica makes an interchangeable 78 RPM stylus.

Sorry about the mess up.

The Grace 704 looks nice, but as you say it will be hard to find an extra headshell. You do have the OM?
No appologies are necessary. :D The Shure that I was referring to was the M97xE. It conveniently is able to accept shure's 78 RPM Stylus, which makes it quite versatile (even if somewhat sub-par sonically IMHO).

Might I suggest the Stanton 680 series. They, I believe, still produce a 78 stylus for the body style. I, too, am a Denon 103 fan but have to admit that the Stanton 681EEE is *really* nice. Also, the brush it sports allows me to play some LPs that the Denon can't handle.

From your original description, it seems to fit the requirements.

For the 'record', my TT is a Technics SL-1200. Although I've used this setup with similar success on a VPI HW-19MkIII/Rega RB-900 arm.

Cheers,

David

The Grado RED hum on a turntable will have nothing to do with anything but the motor since the Grado hum is caused by the unshielded cart interacting with the electromagnetic field caused by an unshielded motor. Or so that is what I read when trying to figure out why mine humms like crazy when on the inside track and their is no music signal to mask it.

It is very very obvious as you move the cart towards the motor the hum volume increases as you move it away it decreases.