View Full Version : Tone Defeat off


EddyR
12-01-2006, 12:07 PM
I posted a thread yesterday that I picked up a G8000. It is cleaned and working great. I did find one odd think.When the tone controls are at center and the tone defeat is engaged the sound changes. If I put the controls at about +3 db and switch the tone defeat in and out the sound stays the same. Yes the knobs are in the correct position on there shafts. Is this normal for this receiver of is it something unique to mine. It hurts nothing working this way but I never had one this far off before.
Ed

Morden2004
12-01-2006, 02:37 PM
I posted a thread yesterday that I picked up a G8000. It is cleaned and working great. I did find one odd think.When the tone controls are at center and the tone defeat is engaged the sound changes. If I put the controls at about +3 db and switch the tone defeat in and out the sound stays the same. Yes the knobs are in the correct position on there shafts. Is this normal for this receiver of is it something unique to mine. It hurts nothing working this way but I never had one this far off before.
Ed


Just a sec.. I'll try that with mine.

<away> :smoke:

Morden2004
12-01-2006, 02:40 PM
My G-8000 has no perceptable change in TONE ON vs. TONE DEFEAT with bass/mid/treble set to 0.

I suggest some cleaning of that DEFEAT switch -- it causes strange problems when dirty. If you search G-8000 & Morden2004 you'll find the saga of my G-8000 and the three or four weeks of control cleaning that I worked at -- and eventually won! It still works flawlessly. :thmbsp:

Paul

EddyR
12-01-2006, 02:44 PM
Thanks Paul I did a quick clean to check things out. Now I am going to do a very extensive clean up.
Ed

Morden2004
12-01-2006, 02:50 PM
Thanks Paul I did a quick clean to check things out. Now I am going to do a very extensive clean up.
Ed

Ed:

Cleaning alone will seldom fix an intermittent oxidized contact -- you need to mechanically work that control thru dozens (if not hundreds!!) of cycles to work the contact cleaner into the oxidation. Work those controls in/out -- back/forth -- up/down over & over & over & ... you get the picture. :scratch2:

Check that thread of mine. It took weeks!

Paul

EddyR
12-01-2006, 07:58 PM
Hi Paul I recleaned all contacts and all the old dust and crap out of the receiver. I think the switch is as good as it is ever going to get. I no longer have a scope but my meter will reads db gain. As I move the defeat switch the voluming is what is changing. It is very slight and unless you were looking for it you would not notice it. My meter shows it. I thought it was a tone change but it is a volumn change. I agree that the switched need a lot of movement so as to wipe the contact surface clean.Considering every contact in this receiver was noisy it came around faster than some others I have cleaned.This receiver had the look of 20 years of storage.The offset was a clean .015 mv. Here is something you may find interesting,I just finished a rebuild on a Carver receiver and running them both on my shop test speakers a old set of AR-2 they sound very much alike. The Sansui has a much better tuner.
Ed

Zeke
12-01-2006, 08:08 PM
I can sense a change of some sort in my G9000DB when I mess with the TONE defeat switch.

Normally, I just leave it alone.

However, I am one of the heathens using high efficiency Klipsch (Cornwall) speakers with big power solid state.

Occasionally, on some poor quality recordings, I get a big time shrieking buzz at 9kHz or so and engage some treble reduction. Before turning the pot to create treble change, I can tell that engaging the circuit either mutes highs -- before I've done anything -- or reduces volume. (It's subtle.)

Frankly, I don't stray from flat often enough for it to be an issue, but I understand what you're saying: the circuit does create a sound different than when it is being defeated.

I don't consider it an issue. :smoke:

approse
12-02-2006, 01:14 PM
The difference is notable - you will probably find it on almost every piece of equipment ever made. The "defeat" is switching the tone controls out of the signal path, just setting the controls to "0" does not. Depending on the total of dirty controls, connections it's hearable and measurable. Like Zeke said this isn't and shouldn't be considered an issue or problem. Using the defeat is the best way to truely know what the source material and the amp itself sounds like and is a fairer way of comparing units IMHO.

Ron

Stene
12-02-2006, 01:34 PM
The difference is notable - you will probably find it on almost every piece of equipment ever made. The "defeat" is switching the tone controls out of the signal path, just setting the controls to "0" does not. Depending on the total of dirty controls, connections it's hearable and measurable. Like Zeke said this isn't and shouldn't be considered an issue or problem. Using the defeat is the best way to truely know what the source material and the amp itself sounds like and is a fairer way of comparing units IMHO.


Ron
If I put the controls at about +3 db and switch the tone defeat in and out the sound stays the same.
Ed
I think this is odd. :scratch2:

SuiDog
12-02-2006, 06:01 PM
I would echo approse... and i wonder what is going on with EddyR's G. :scratch2:

approse
12-02-2006, 10:33 PM
I'm kinda lol a bit here but when Eddy was saying +3 seemed to be what was a neutral "change" I wonder if it's something so simple as the knobs have been put on that one notch off? You really do have to count the distance and get them in the middle of the arc.

Morden2004
12-03-2006, 07:45 AM
I'm kinda lol a bit here but when Eddy was saying +3 seemed to be what was a neutral "change" I wonder if it's something so simple as the knobs have been put on that one notch off? You really do have to count the distance and get them in the middle of the arc.

That was my first thought too! Check those knobs.

Paul

EddyR
12-03-2006, 01:03 PM
Reread my post "yes I have the knobs on correct" This is not a problem for me. It is a volume change. I am not the type that will go obsess until it is perfect. Thanks for all the input but I didn't want you to think I was sitting here all worried about it. Let me add another question. Have any of you painted the heat sink? do I need to use high temp paint?
Ed

nosirrah
12-03-2006, 01:06 PM
I wouldn't think so....not like the thing glows red....any good paint in enamel should do, it will stink a bit till it cures fully....suggest a satin finish....krylon makes a good product.
Casey