Hi all-
I bought a replacement stylus for an old Empire cart and I'm wondering about something..The new stylus is an OEM Empire and in profile and basic shape resembles the old one, however the new one has a flip-down cover and the metal piece that plugs into the cartridge is round instead of square in cross-section. It feels like it'd be a tight fit, I tried it in the hole and it won't push on easy so I bailed out before breaking anything. Is a round contact common? Or is this an Empire thing? The old stylus was in there pretty tight but I finally got it off and it doesn't appear to have ever been round. It's a square, oriented diamond-style. Any thoughts? BTW; the cart is an Empire 66 PE/X, the replacement stylus a 239-d7C in a Zenith box, specifically labeled for use in this cart.
Dan

Something's wrong. The extension should not be round in cross section. Empires from that era all had square extensions.

I'm assuming that the opening in the cartridge is square, correct?

Doug

Don't force it, there is something amiss here. The stylus cantilever will most likely snap right off trying to push the wrong shape in the wrong hole. HERE (http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/stylus/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=324) is the proper stylus for your cart. (No affiliation, all that Jazz.) Obviously square cantilever.

The cart opening is square. The one in the link Ozmoid sent looks more like the old one. Weird thing is, this stylus says "Empire" across the front of it and the box is labeled "Mfd. by Empire Scientific Co." Harumph. I had it in about 1/8" and it was already starting to form slight flats on the round piece.
BTW: I know this cart may not be worth the trouble but it was on my mid 70's Fisher when I got it and I thought I'd try it out again. I'm not $50 curious, though.
Dan

I know this cart may not be worth the trouble but it was on my mid 70's Fisher when I got it and I thought I'd try it out again. I'm not $50 curious, though.
Dan
Dan, if the stylus wasn't too expensive, and the cart is not "near and dear" enough for an expensive needle replacement... why not try it? The link I supplied is to a reproduction stylus, not an original. You mentioned it was starting to form to shape? Go gently and see what happens.

FWIW, I have an old Empire that was really nice, but I can't qualify the $50+ needle replacement either. It was nice, but for $50 I'll save a little more and buy a whole new cartridge :D . I hear good things about the Grado Black/Green and the AT440MLa and the Shure M97xe, all of which retail for under $100.

An Empire 66? That was my first magnetic cart, and I had it on a Garrard AT-60 back in 1977. I remember paying only $10 at the time for it because it was an overstock/closeout... and it was an "okay" cart. Nothing to write home about. In today's money, that's like what, $30?

I'll agree with Ozmoid's suggestions about getting something a little more modern... and stylus-replacement friendly. Even a genuine NOS Empire stylus replacement will be 30 years old, and more than likely have a dried-out suspension. I'll add the Ortofon OM10 Super as another very worthy candidate in the sub-$100 category.

Tom

Dan,

This is a decent cartridge and one worth using if you can find a decent stylus. I have several Empires and love them. The original stylus was a .2 x .7 elliptical. Your situation demonstrates precisely why I dislike OEM replacements.

First of all, the stylus is incorrectly labeled. A 239 should have a square shank.

But even if it was labeled correctly, the 239-d7c is a cheap, inferior .7 mil conical stylus which will not provide the nice sound or tracking of the original. When these places sell you a stylus for your cart, it may fit, but it often isn't the quality or shape of the original diamond.

Incidentally the later Empires, which looked similar, did have round shanks.

Ok, so I did a little experimentation. I mounted the cart to my Pioneer, GENTLY pushed the stylus in all the way, lined it up, and let 'er rip. Well, let 'er squeak anyhow. I had to turn the volume up to four to get what I'd normally get on one. And it sounded good, mind you. So I guess it's either a bad cart or the metal tongue on the back of the stylus is a little too short to reach SOMETHING (about 1/16") in there. It was worth a shot. Any input? I'm curious as to whether anyone has run across this type of output problem. I may be able to file the sides of the plastic housing on the stylus to get it in further, but I don't know if it's just my round peg/square hole methods that are messing thing up. I'm not desperate to save this cart but an extra ready to go comes in handy sometimes...
Thanks
Dan

Output problem? Dan, you're putting the wrong stylus in the cart--what do you expect? The stylus for this cart should have a square shank--period. I don't know what they sold you, but it's not the right stylus, no matter what it says on the package or on it. This is a decent cart and you are trying to put a non-fitting piece of junk into it. Why don't you take a picture of the stylus and post it so we can see exactly what you've got?

This is what the proper stylus for this cart should look like:

http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/stylus/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=318&osCsid=384a6f37f2135351a519bb8e9a20cf6d

or without the needle guard it should look like this:

http://www.export-japan.com/marketing/stylus/product_info.php?cPath=6&products_id=317&osCsid=384a6f37f2135351a519bb8e9a20cf6d

Note the square shank. JICO makes high quality aftermarket styli. And if they say it's elliptical, that's what you get.

Well, like I said-it was experimentation. I didn't really expect it to work and I was posting the results for the benefit of those who were curious. I wasn't trying to come off as hardheaded, merely publishing the 'lab results'.
Thanks for the links.
Dan

Thanks for the results, Dan. :music: Sorry they were less than stellar. :no:

I'll echo Ovenmaster's Ortofon OM10 addition to the list of candidates, too. The unique thing about the Ortofon is that the cartridge is the same through the whole series, so if you want to "upgrade" later to a better version, you just buy the appropriate stylus and off you go! I have an LM10 that was "loaned" to me (when I finally get around to buying a cart, I'll give it back) and it is an excellent sounding cartridge.

Thanks for the recommendation; I think I'll stick with the Shures I've got on everything else for now as I like the sound and the styli are easy to find. Interesting idea, with the Ortofon's stylus being the upgrade variable.
The test PL-518 has the ADC I mentioned in the other thread, and the styli are kinda pricey. I like to standardize a little bit. I probably wouldn't have noticed the slight lack of midrange in the Pioneer/ADC if I hadn't had the Fisher with the brand new Shure next to it to compare. It eq'ed out with a little hump in the middle of the 10-band anyway...I probably oughta leave it alone and use the EQ to compensate, but you always know it's there, y'know?

Dan

I probably wouldn't have noticed the slight lack of midrange in the Pioneer/ADC if I hadn't had the Fisher with the brand new Shure next to it to compare.
I always get in trouble when I start "comparing"... Happy as a clam one day, disgusted with the whole mess the next! :D :music: