TA
Thanks for the info on the RCA Red Seal recording. I will order that next trip to Tower. I hope it is still available.
Yes Holst really nailed it on the Planets. You here bits of all through John Williams scores especially Star Wars. It is also important to know that Holst was commissioned to and wrote Mars before the outbreak of WWI and tanks and other cool killing machines hadn't been invented yet, but the political situation pointed at war. Not sure about this but I don't believe the Planets was actually performed till after the war was over.
As far as Tchaikovsky goes my favorite in the Marche Slav, but for the 1812 the very best I have ever heard is on RCA Red Seal 1991 the Tchaikovsky Gala in Leningrad in celebration of his 150th birthday. They had a Russian artillery battalion and all the church bells in the city in this. Talk about the cannons going off, they used a whole bunch of real ones. Be careful with this one girls and boys, it can blow those woofs out!
And of course Franz von Suppe' best known for Morning Noon and Night in Vienna, but my all time favorite is the Poet and the Peasant. For those of you not familier with Suppe' you can get a very nice CD of his best on Naxos for $6. Check it out.
Most everone knows the William Tell Overture but most haven't heard the whole thing, it is lots of fun placing the son, the evil sherriff, the hero etc. Like it but love the Theiving Maggpie most. I was exposed to Rossini as a lot of my generation was with Kubricks A Clock Work Orange. Got me into Bethovan too. And Wagner's Flight of Die Walkure in Apocalyse Now. I bought the Ring Highlights on Seraphim just to get it with vocals, goosebumps!
An aside, a label that I have been enjoying a lot is Hungaroton White Label. If you are a fan of the double bass the HDC 31915 Bottesini Opera Paraphrases is good stuff. Gergely Jardarnyi is a real master. The "From The New World" Dvorak's 9th has my favorite recording of Smetena's Moldau on it. The Moldau is a traditional falling off to sleep tune for us. You can just feel yourself floating down the river on this one.
Thatch

*THOR pokes his head in*

:eek: GEEKS! :eek:

Must flee! ;)

Your welcome. Anybody that wants that kind of stuff deserves all the help they can get procuring it.

I'll bet that is a good version. The Russian's give good artillery. I have a Deutsche-Grammophone or something of the 1812, and they got some cannons up at West Point, but it wasn't anybody's birthday or anything so I think they were pretty half-hearted about the entire affair.

I got a ton of yard sale purchase classical cd's that I haven't had time to screw with yet. I'll keep that Mahler in mind.

Picked up a two cassette set today of Smetana's "My Country" performed by the Slovokian Philharmonic. I am not familiar with any of this guys work, but I think he has a cool name, so I'm going to listen to the entire thing at my desk tomorrow.

Toasted Almond

I dl'ed a couple of other versions of the 1812 and none of them have the "oomph" of the Telarc one.

Golden eared critics say the Telarc engineers overemphasize the "oomph" on everything they release, but it doesn't offend me in the least. IN FACT, I'm prepared to say I like it. Like it a lot more than I like golden eared critics that's for sure.

Toasted Almond

Talked with a guy yesterday that uses the Telarc as a test disc. He says most speaks distort out at high volumes with it.
TA,
How did you like the Ma Vlast by Smetena. Symphonic poems, I use them to relax, especially the one about the river Moldau. The guy was Czech by the way.
Thatch

Thatch my man l admire your knowledge and taste BUT l am a little concern.Classical music and poetry has its' place as long as there is balance.

Balance equals one poem and classical piece of music to every one " Big Bubba " Molson Canadian plus one Government Mule CD at high volume consumed. :D

PS using wine and cooking knowledge from your other posts ie Cooking 101 to impress my wife. ;)

Mr. Smetana "Czech's" good with me. Very nice.

There is a place for the classics, jazz, rock, soul, fusion, and the music of Frank Zappa.

I can't break the code on C & W, SMOOTH jazz (not to be mistaken for jazz), and RAP or hip-hop or whatever it's called. THEREFORE, they must not be music.

Before someone gets all fired up, it's an opinion. Expressed by ONE person.


Toasted Almond

There are a couple of opera tunes I like with the people singing, but mostly just the tunes. Heck anybody that goes to the movies listens to lots of classical, classic rock and in some cases opera and like it when it happenning even if they would not buy it for home listening.
The movie Platoon is a great example of a mix of rock but with a really great piece of classical thrown when Wilm Defoe gets shot to pieces. Adagio for strings by Barber.
I have it on a CD but only because it was on one that had a particular rendition of some Vivaldi that I wanted.
I am not up on C&W that much but do like some of the old Texas stride music like Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys, I also like Patsy Cline a lot.
Then there is a nitch catagory that was called Progressive Country 25 years ago that Molly Hatchet, the Allman Bros and Learnard Skinnard fall into along with the Texas Outlaw music of David Allen Coe, Willy Nelson and of course Waylon Jennings. I also put into this catagory some of Bonnie Raits stuff as well as most of Stevie Ray Vaugn's tunes.
I am now crawling into my flame resistant suit.
Thatchonfire.

Originally posted by Thatch_Ear
Talked with a guy yesterday that uses the Telarc as a test disc. He says most speaks distort out at high volumes with it.
TA,
How did you like the Ma Vlast by Smetena. Symphonic poems, I use them to relax, especially the one about the river Moldau. The guy was Czech by the way.
Thatch

Well my CV's have no problems with it, or any music for that matter no matter how loud it is played, of course they are rated for a recommended 500 watts continous and 1500 maximum ;)

I did notice that the Altec Model 15 still containing the original woofer didn't care for it too much tho, and gave a little "pop" at the height of it, could be cuz it was only running off the 55wpc Technics SA500, doesn't matter tho cuz both original woofers will be going to those guys who rebuild Altec stuff, white plains? great plains? whatever their name is, to be refoamed, rebuilt and have the magnets recharged or whatever it is they do there.

Toasted Almond, I can get into everything you mentioned down below (up above?) EXCEPT the rap and hip hop. I don't get that stuff. Smooth jazz has it's place at my house, depending on what I'm doing.:smsex:
Thatch Ear, I fell into "Outlaw" music about the mid seventies. I haven't quit yet. It gets regular rotation at my house.
If I want opera I play PDQ Bach :D
:eek: From 1812 to the rhinestone cowboy, whatta thread! :D :D
Brad
Any "Goose Heads" out here?

I really hate to tell you this Thor but if you were getting weird noises out of yor Altecs it might be not because of the speakers but because of the amp. Those things are probably not able to handle 50 watts continous. Undoubtably the speakers were not sounding as good as possible but most all of the Alnico drivers and the older ferrites for that matter were so efficient that many were rated at 20 watts max for continous use. 55 watts if it was cranked could well have been pushing them past their limits during the really hard core passages.
Those compression drivers are always up around 106 db for an SPL. The big cone drivers at 95 to 98. put them together and you should be able to get close to 100 decibles of sound at one meter with one watt of power. If they are 100 db at 1 watt, 55 watts ought to be getting around 116-117 decibels. By the time you got up to be 50 watts probably both your amp and the speakers were clipping, and SS does not clip any way but hard. A hard clip from the amp going through speaks pushed to their limit would not be pleasant.
I will take this up in speakers, since I have blown out 2 woofers listening to a Russian that didn't have cannons.
Thatch

Steamshooter,
I know a guy in Oregon that does taxidermy. He likes to shoot a goose, clean it and stuff it and eat the rest.
I have listened to "Bird" but Parker never had a preference as far as I know as to type of fowl.
Iffens you like the Outlaw stuff you must be OK, even if PDQ Bach is the Allen Sherman of classical. Enlighten me.
:D

Thatch, Bird is short for Yardbird or chicken. They ran over one on the way to a gig and Charlie insisted on cooking and eating it.
As far as the Goose goes, you may be closer than you might want to admit.:eek:
Goose Creek Symphony is a hillbilly band from Goose Creek Kentucky. They really don't have a catagory therefore they didn't get any airplay. BTW they got back together a few years back and started recording again. I guess they are a mixture of bluegrass, rock and roll with a sax, trumpet and trombone section thrown in. They started out as a bunch of good ol' mountain boys that believed in moonshine and homegrown. ( it showed up in their music quite often) Simple lyrics but complicated melodies. I got turned on to Goose Creek about the same time as outlaw music and John Hartford.
http://www.goosecreeksymphony.com/
They used to have some mp3's here I don't know if they still do.
They are not for everyone :D
Brad

So Clapton, Beck and Page all played for a group named after free range chickens?
Love the story on Parker! Those Goosers are pretty darned good when they let loose.

Originally posted by Thatch_Ear
I really hate to tell you this Thor but if you were getting weird noises out of yor Altecs it might be not because of the speakers but because of the amp. Those things are probably not able to handle 50 watts continous. Undoubtably the speakers were not sounding as good as possible but most all of the Alnico drivers and the older ferrites for that matter were so efficient that many were rated at 20 watts max for continous use. 55 watts if it was cranked could well have been pushing them past their limits during the really hard core passages.
Those compression drivers are always up around 106 db for an SPL. The big cone drivers at 95 to 98. put them together and you should be able to get close to 100 decibles of sound at one meter with one watt of power. If they are 100 db at 1 watt, 55 watts ought to be getting around 116-117 decibels. By the time you got up to be 50 watts probably both your amp and the speakers were clipping, and SS does not clip any way but hard. A hard clip from the amp going through speaks pushed to their limit would not be pleasant.
I will take this up in speakers, since I have blown out 2 woofers listening to a Russian that didn't have cannons.
Thatch

I imagine you are right Thatch the pop only came out of the cabinet containing the original ltec woofer, the one that has a Rat shack woofer in it (the original Altec one the basket came unglued from the spider, I believe that is the correct terminology) I don't believe any permenant damage was done since I have cranked them very loudly since (not on the 1812 tho ;) ) and notice no difference in sound. So since I will eventually sink a good chunk of change into the Model 15's by getting the woofers completely redone ( should I send the horns too? While I am at it? They seem to work great but should they get a tune up too? ) How much of an amp should I use?

Write Bill H. at Great Plains Audio....email <whanuschak@cox.net> and if he is going to rebuild a couple of woofs he might remagnitize the compression drivers for free, or cheap if he has to tear them down to do it. Remagnitizing is included in the charge of what ever work he does. Then it could be just cost the extra weight in shipping.

Hmmmmm......Smooth Jazz, we have a Smooth Jazz station here and it is more like a Snooze Jazz. They will play some really great, well, relatively great stuff, then all of a sudden Micheal Bolton comes on and kinda kills the mood :puke:
Hey Thor, I'm wondering how a Fisher 500-c would do with those Altecs? Not a lot of power 30-35 watts per, but the sound would be awesome.

VH,
A Fisher 500 would sound great with those Altecs but you know Thor and tubes might not mix well.
You watch "Malcome in the Middle"? Reese is standing next to a bug zapper with one of those blue lights watchings insects fly in and hit the wires and fry. "Stupid bug! Stupid Bug! Stupid Bug!" reaches out an touches it." OWE!!!"
Actually I doubt Thor has ever heard great vintage drivers hooked up to a nice old piece of tube gear like a Fisher 500C, or he would have found one for himself by now.
I went to a DIYers meeting and a great guy that had a pair of Cornwalls for close to 20 years had never listened to them on anything but SS power. We kind of ran him through the gamut off PP and SE amps and then I dragged my 50 lbs beasty into the room. I had just bought a pair of those nice TJ 300B mesh plate 300Bs that day and we hooked his Corwalls to it and then rolled 3 pairs of driver tubes so he could here the differences in the sound stage that could make and when the last pair was dropped in the guys jaw dropped. So did mine because the tubes were not mine and the owner would not sell them to me.
No moral to the story and I don't know if the guy has bought a tube rig, but that was the first time he got the chance to hear the performance without listening to his speakers if you know what I mean, and I think you do.

I don't think toob stuff could handle my abusive ways ;)

If the stuff wasn't tuff and good sounding it would have been scrapped. Maybe after you get those Altecs rebuilt I'll loan ya an integrated that has the same preamp and power tubes as a 500C reciever does. As long as you don't drop it or use it to bust holes in the ice for fishing I doubt you could hurt it a bit.

So whats the max amount of watts I should be throwing at those altecs? I will be shopping for an amp for them within the next few months

Thor, any thing 3 watts and up. Just remember that watts don't really mean a whole hell of a lot unless you are dealing with power hungry speakers ( read, most of the time inexpensively made thick wired voice coil drivers ) and that going from 100 watts to 200 watts will only raise the volume 3 db.
If your Altecs are going to be around 100db efficient then 1 watt will give your ear 100 decibles at a meter away. 2 watts 103 db, etc. A 32 watt amp would give you 115 db. That is loud. To sustain the loud you need the caps. Then again 32 watts sustained with lots of bass shoulda aughta mighta blow your Altecs out.
Now since we are not in the vintage forum and I can say "tube audio" one of the big reasons Altec owners use tubes is because the Altecs were designed to be used with tubes. My main rig would absolutely suck trying to drive your CVs, but could get your Altecs up to the cupping your hand around the ears of the guy next to you and shouting so he can hear you loud. With about 5 watts.
So if you want to go tubes a 30 watt PP should give you the headroom you need and if you stick with SS 30 watt minimum old power (meaning a 30 to 35 wpc made in the USA Marantz). Do not put a brute force amp on those Altecs unless you put fuse protection on the speakers first.
Again if you are curious I will loan an amp to you. To get it to work I am going to have to take the balance control out of a more expensive piece of gear so you can not keep it and expect a good buddy price on it.
But I would not use the Technics as it evedently is not a good match with the Altecs.
If you want to pursue this further lets take it up in General.

I think they sound great with the Technics, it is a nice vintage technics not a newer crappy one, and the only hiccup I have ever heard was on the 1812.

So tubes would match well, but would they match well with the SS powerd CV's, right now they do but would they with the tubes?

yes

Ok so when I buy an amp for the Altecs I need to find one in the 30wpc range??

Thor

Check out this integrated amp:

Eico Amp (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1372141049)

The price is real nice, and paired with those Altecs would make a SWEET bedroom system.

Chris

Thor,
Just hang on and if you want to listen to a tube amp I will allow you to pay shipping and send you one to listen to. It will do everything but what SE can do. I think it is rated at around 35 wpc but figure on 25 wpc without distortion.
It is a Fisher X-101-B, has a 5AR4 rectifier, 12AX7 drivers and 7591 power tubes. Not an uncommon amp so you should be able to find one one Ebay. This is NOT the same amp that has 6BQ5/EL84/7199 power tubes. It has twice the power of that one. The numbers are so close they are often mixed up.

Bedroom system!!! Those are my rear speakers!! Not to mention they are way to large to put in the bedroom.

Thatch thanks for the offer I might try that out in the future, before I get an amp for them I want to send the woofers and horns out to be reconditioned, and it will be awhile before I do that.

One other question can you control a tube amp with a SS preamp??

Just picked up a copy of Tchaikovsky 1812 overture Marche slave capriccio italien with Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic on Columbia Masterworks. Covers not so great but the vinyl is clean as can be. Can't wait to spin it. Wondering if anyones heard this version.

Grumpy

Nothing like picking up a dead thread. Two years to the day. Nice touch Grump.

Haven't heard that version.

TA

Someone mentioned Barber's "Adagio For Strings" awhile back. That song-movement-whatever- is so freakin' SAD ! And yet, so hauntingly beautiful......."A Clockwork Orange"-LOTSA excellent classical in it, not just lovely, lovely Ludwig Van.... Usta put the album on at the frat house's stereo when nobody else was around & turn it up to where they could hear me in Powhatan. Especially "The Thieving Magpie"...Grieg's "In the Hall of the Mountain King" kicks ass, as does Dvorak's "Humoresque" I also love Borodin's "Polovtsian Dances", especially the "Stranger In Paradise" one. Yes, I'm weird...I'll be the first to admit it...but the WORST classical piece you ever heard has got the best cRap you ever heard beat by a country mile, IMHO. Pretty much the same goes for country & gospel, too..-Sandy G.

My vote for the best version of the 1812 Overture goes to the version recorded by the Gothenburg Symphony and Choir. Yes, choir because the opening bars of the 1812 are based on Russian liturgical music and hearing the voices is just fantastic.

Rob

I am a big fan of the theme from The Lone Ranger:D

This thread reminds me that I haven't tried out the Telarc version of the 1812 I have on CD on my system since I went to bi-amping the CV's with 4 amps and 1200+ watts and put a toob amp on the 15's with the new (vintage) RTR woofers in them :eek:

Hmmmmmm I gotta find that CD! ;)

What Telarc version? The old "vintage" one (1979?), or the newer version (with the WARNING: DIGITAL CANNONS)?

I found the newer issue, though occasionaly spooky-good (some of the chorus makes my hair want to stand on end) somewhat poorly mixed.

It sure is a crowd pleaser, though!

I buy just about every version of this I can find. I'll go through the labels tonight & post again.

Though the Phase 4 issued London Festival Orch/Sharples that comes to mind was only so-so.

Pete

PS Thor, try not to blow your neighbors' windows out :eek: !!