I just brought home a SPEC 4 and I already have a SPEC 2. I can't keep them both. Which one would you keep and why?

I would keep SPEC-4.
It has less distortion and better specs than Spec-2. Outside and inside is more symmetric.
Spec-4 is the "newer" amp.

I would keep SPEC-4.
It has less distortion and better specs than Spec-2. Outside and inside is more symmetric.
Spec-4 is the "newer" amp.
Agreed

In it's day the SPEC 4 had superior and outstanding headroom (even by today's standards). Stereo Reveiw tested it's dynamic burst power ability at 365 watts per channel before clipping. Not bad for an amp rated at 150 continuous.

Aside from that the SPEC4 just sounds a whole world better than the SPEC2.

SPEC2 has a high noise floor and makes audible noise when connected to high efficiency speakers.

SPEC4 is practically the only Pioneer unit that even remotely interests me these days, after all these years it's the only unit they made worthy of, and able to live up to it's hype.

Being the owner of two SPEC 4's and four SPEC 2's, the SPEC 2 will eat the SPEC 4 for breakfast in ALL power catergories. Which one would I keep to run my inefficient Thiel CS3.6's, or my super inefficient AR-9's? Certainly NOT the SPEC 4. These amps are all over 25 years old and if it hasn't been done yet, a rebuild is right around corner. When EchoWars is done with the 3rd SPEC 2 for me, I'll put all 3 of them up against any SPEC 4 in ANY catergory! The 2 rebuilt SPEC 2's I have hit 340 watts per channel into an 8 ohm load before clipping. When testing one side, into a 4 ohm load, you can add at least another 100 watts per channel. Besides that, the SPEC 2 sells for at least $300 more every time on that auction site. Nuff said!



Retro

Why can't you keep both?

If you have to choose - hook them both up and let your ears make the decision for you.

Keep both. Sell something else instead, like one of the kids, the wife, the car...try not to sell the house, as you need the roof to keep rain off the Specs, and to provide a listening environment in which to enjoy them.

If that doesn't work, then do what Retro says. He knows what he's talking about (even if I don't... :D ). Even if he doesn't, with an avatar like that one, I wouldn't dispute his decisions...:no: :D

Being the owner of two SPEC 4's and four SPEC 2's...
Retro


*Two* SPEC4s AND *four* SPEC 2s? With THAT kind of power, I can only assume that you are actually assembling Doctor Strangelove's doomsday machine.:D


If that doesn't work, then do what Retro says. He knows what he's talking about (even if I don't... :D ). Even if he doesn't, with an avatar like that one, I wouldn't dispute his decisions...:no: :D

With an avatar like this one, have no fear in disputing my descisions.

Regards,
expatguy

Thanks for the opinions guys!! So far its SPEC 4, 2 votes, SPEC 2, 1 vote, and BOTH, 2 votes. Keeping BOTH might be an option, I have been thinking about liquidating my NAD's... I was drawn to the SPEC 4 because I have a preference for dual tranny amplifiers and this one was a decent deal with local pickup.

It's a tough choice but keep your NAD's - you might want to have kids one day!

Sam, I vote for you to keep both of those fine amps.

I seriously doubt that the Spec-2 is vastly inferior to the Spec-4. I wonder if that view is the result of someone getting way too serious about whats printed on a spec sheet?

I auditioned both a Spec-2 and a Spec-4 from the same collector/seller before choosing to purchase his Spec-2. I did not notice a high noise floor on the Spec-2. Sure, the Spec-4 is a true dual mono amp, but hey, it was a close contest.

I think some of us get a bit too wrapped up in whether an amp or receiver is true dual mono, or has twin torrodial transformers and all of that other stuff. There are some great pieces of equipment that sound absolutely superb that simply do not have the ULTIMATE in circuitry, the biggest cans ever made, etc.
Don't let stuff like that cloud your judgement.

I am, by the way, going to pick up that sellers Spec-4. It's just too nice of an amp not to!

It's a tough choice but keep your NAD's - you might want to have kids one day!

Bill,
You know, I almost made this same comment, but if it wasn't me, I'm glad someone else had the same thought.

:D


Retro

My opinion is based on hearing both amplifiers new out of the box, on Altec model 17's (604-8G) and Klipsch Cornwalls. In a quiet room both the new Spec2 and a friend's whose was at least a year old at the time produced audible noise (hiss) at idle, Spec4 remained dead silent for over 15 yrs of ownership.

I in no way mean to imply that the spec2 is a bad sounding amplifier, it is indeed a fine sounding amplifier that's as well designed and built electronically as much as mechanically.

My statement regarding noise floor was strictly a comparison between the two amps, not to imply that it's a "noisy" amp, just noisier than the Spec4. For those using speakers with sensitivity below the high 90's, i'm sure it's a very moot point, much as with the rest of the printed specs to which i give little credence. Many manufacturers made many claims over the years. My altec compression drivers DO NOT extend to 22khz, but you can find many documents that clearly state that they do.

Having owned both amps as well as SX1250, SX1280, SA9500II, and SA9800, i can tell you that spec4 is my preference as far as sound quality goes, the SPEC4 is the one that shines above the others as most dynamic and uncolored. Keep in mind that my preference for very high efficiency speakers plays a role here.

FWIW, the OP i'm pretty sure was looking for opinions on which of the amps to keep. The wonderful thing about opinions is that everyone can have a different one and nobody is really wrong. I expressed my opinion, feel i have supported it adequately, and stand firmly behind it, If my speaker preference were for stats rather than horns, i freely admit that my opinion might take a 180 degree turn.

I think the OP is probably getting the best advice from those of you suggesting that he keep both. This way he can be sure which is going to best meet his listening requirements.

Just my opinion, which when combined with a quarter will get ya a cup of cheap coffee.......................

bowtie427ss,
Under your circumstances, with the super high efficient horn speakers, I'd probably pull a 180 myself and go with a SPEC 4. :yes:

But, no "hiss" from my not-so-efficient" speakers with my rebuilt SPEC 2's. :no:

Also under your circumstances, I'm might sell both of the solid state amps off and buy one of those crappy tube amps.

:D

Just kidding "Tubies"

It does all come down to what speakers you are powering with either of those two amps.



Retro

This is going to be a tough choice. I haven't noticed a hiss at idle in my SPEC 2 but early impressions are the SPEC 4 is a winner. I'm doing my evaluation on HPM-100's so its all in the family.

I'm not going to do anything rash, you know the kind of decision I'll regret later but at the same time, I feel like I have too much gear so something has to give. If I had my choice of keeping the SPEC 2 and SPEC 4, I would have to dump my NAD's. Reason is I don't really listen to my NAD's and I'm not impressed with the build quality but they do sound good.

This is going to be a tough choice. I haven't noticed a hiss at idle in my SPEC 2 but early impressions are the SPEC 4 is a winner. I'm doing my evaluation on HPM-100's so its all in the family.

I'm not going to do anything rash, you know the kind of decision I'll regret later but at the same time, I feel like I have too much gear so something has to give. If I had my choice of keeping the SPEC 2 and SPEC 4, I would have to dump my NAD's. Reason is I don't really listen to my NAD's and I'm not impressed with the build quality but they do sound good.

The Pioneer HPM 100's "are" one of those super efficient, non-horn speakers, which actually, either amp would do a wonderful job on, but if you ever get into a not-so-efficient speaker, like AR-9s, Thiels, Infinity RS 2.5s or 4.5s, Vandersteens, DQ-10s, Maggies, etc., you're going to wish you had that SPEC 2, guaranteed....


And that is just my $.02



Retro

Retro, just so happens i have a 12wpc EL84 integrated that's going to be my entrance back into DIY tubes. Not sure if i'm really inlove with the tube sound, or just the fact that it's something i can work on myself.

I hope i didn't ruffle anyones dander about the Spec's, they're both outstanding representatives of what pioneer was capable of. Probably with all things considered the 2 is the more "versatile" of the two amplifiers, and i think the 2 might even be a bit more "rugged" electronically, for lack of a better term. I have no experience, but have heard tell that the Spec4 can be somewhat delicate around difficult speaker loads, whereas I've known some spec 2's to do well at some jobs they were never intended for, a local skating rink comes to mind.

I hesitate to divulge this but, our Spec2 went on to power the bottom half of four A7's for a local rock band's PA system, it was still serving faithfully when the band broke up in the late 80's. Not exactly where i would hope to see it used, but once you sell this great gear, it's really the new owner's privelege to do as they please with it.

The way i see it, Sam has three possible choices and every one is a winner.

If space and budget allowed, i'd probably have one of each to show off.

bowtie427ss,
No feathers ruffled here.
Sometimes it really does come down to "the application" before any decisions should be made. If all Sam is going to power are HPM 100s, or an equally efficient speaker, the SPEC 4 would be an excellent choice.
The speakers I power with my two SPEC 4s are the more efficient A/D/S 1290s and a pair of Ohm Walsh 4s. On the other hand, my SPEC 2s are pulling duty with the Thiel CS3.6s, AR-9s, and Allison Ones.
On the other, other, hand, the SPEC 2 will power any of the speakers mentioned above effectively, but the SPEC 4 will not, and because of that, the full characteristics of the inefficient speakers will not be realized.



Retro

Thanks for all the help. You guys touched on speaker choice. I have a pair of Braun versions of the L1080 and the are 4 ohm rated. I know that 4 ohm and lower loads can wreak havoc on amps that can't handle it. Is the SPEC 2 more robust in this regard?

Inefficient 4 ohm speakers are what the SPEC 2 is all about. In that application, the SPEC 4 doesn't even come close.



Retro

I'm not going to do anything rash, you know the kind of decision I'll regret later but at the same time, I feel like I have too much gear so something has to give.

Ya know, I`ve always been of the opinion - "Decide in haste, repent at leisure!"
I think that if I had to buy an amp and had the choice of two which sounded pretty much the same within reason - i`d go for the one with the better build quality every time!!! :yes: :yes:

Regards
LOZ (From England) :thmbsp:

Ya know, I`ve always been of the opinion - "Decide in haste, repent at leisure!"
I think that if I had to buy an amp and had the choice of two which sounded pretty much the same within reason - i`d go for the one with the better build quality every time!!! :yes: :yes:

Regards
LOZ (From England) :thmbsp:
LOZ: I agree 110%!! Better build quality equals better engineering effort and less interference from the bean counters. The SPEC amps are leagues ahead of my NAD gear so guess which ones are going to stay. Cheers, Sam.

For me, the SPEC-4 is the keeper. This is because I already have one and need another, to power my triple-stack of HPM-100s. A SPEC-2 is serious overkill for HPM-100s, while a SPEC-4 is just about right, stacked or single. My AR-9s are already more than adequately powered by my Yammy M-80, or I would be opting for the SPEC-2.

I been looking for a nice SPEC-4 around these parts, but none so far. My eyes remain peeled...

Enjoy,
Rich P

SPEC 2, more options.

EDIT: sorry, this didn't come out right:
i find it hard to believe any Pioneer would make a "hiss" audible enough to be bothersome..at idle ?? clarify that for me Retro :scratch2:

Keep em both, all the more options. :banana:

my 2¢

Better build quality equals better engineering effort and less interference from the bean counters.

Huuuhhh? :confused:

So, somehow, a manufactured item's finished build quality is....never mind. I can't even begin to parse through that logic.

Twas indeed this poster that heard his Spec 2 hiss new out of the box. I don't believe i ever said it was "bothersome". Fact is the "hiss" was only audible in a very quiet room on high efficiency speakers. I can probably demonstrate 50 or more different large receivers and power amplifiers that exhibit this, most a margin more so than the spec2.

My point was that in my situation i could hear this from the Spec2, but not from the Spec4. Since i predominantly use high efficiency speakers, even to this day, and since the spec4 and spec2 have close to the same "dynamic" power ability in the "stereo" mode, the choice was a no brainer for me.

I should clarify that SPEC2 hiss was never a bother to me personally since i woud normally be passing a signal thru the amp. It was just simply a characteristic that in my experience one amp had and the other didn't. I suspect that if i were running large format horns and drivers approaching the 110db/1W efficiency mark, then the hiss might be an issue.

Makes perfect sense, bowtie427ss, sorry i worded that wrong.

I have the logical solution that would solve your dilema. Keep the SPEC-2 and sell me the SPEC-4 cheap!
All joking aside I once had a quest to build my bedroom system with a SPEC-4 but would be overkill in there. But would still be nice! My 9500 handles the job nicely tho.

I understand what you are talking about 'hiss' from the SPEC-2. Mine has it idle but only because I use my EQ thru the mains and there is an ever so slight 'hiss' at idle. But it is almost inaudible unless you stand right next to my stacked speakers. But when the EQ is outta the loop the 'hiss' disappears.

I got to experience a SPEC-4 for about a month before it blew the left channel sadly:tears: . I then stepped up to the SPEC-2 and have never looked back.
Although my Mach Twos are very efficient the extra headroom during serious volume and listening times helps alot no to mention the high peaks during movie watching the SPEC-2 deliveries the goods but the 4 is no slouch.

I say keep em' both if you can!:thmbsp:

My spec-4 seems to be happy powering 2 pairs of JBL L-96's which are relativley ineffiecient @ 88db/1w/1m. If fact it seems to drive them with more dynamics and sound better when the speakers are wired in series, therefore dropping the impedance load seen by the amp, but these speakers are 8 ohm nominal impedence. I have not tried driving any 4 ohm nominal speakers like Retro has, so I can't say for sure if the Spec-4 would be as stable into that load.

Hey guys, I've been looking but can't find any nudes of these amps. Where are they hiding??

:worthless