DAC specifically for Redbook CD's

Bigboi33

Dazed and Confused
There is some music I have been getting into lately and alas it is not available in my beloved medium. So I have been taking an adventure trip back to the land of those shiny things we call CD's. However, my ears have been objecting to the quality of the sound coming from my not so special Sony CDP/recorder. Not trying to start a war here nor am I looking for an explanation when I say this but, the truth is my ears can't take listening to CD's very long. I experience serious listening fatigue after an hour. Again, not looking for an explanation or an arguement, I just know it as an accepted fact when it comes to my ears.

I need to change or improve this experience as I am finding more and more interest in music that seems to only be available on CD. So at this point I am willing to make a sizeable investment. So far, my options are pointing towards an outboard dac. I'm looking for something that will specifically improve Redbook CD's via coaxial/optical input.

I'm am not looking to go the USB DAC/Computer route. I have definitely heard a lot of good stuff and fully agree that some are very very close if not right on par with analog. I would easily make the investment but I don't want to deal with ripping cd's and/or dealing with a computer or whatever digital device feeding the USB DAC.

I simply want a DAC that can be connected via digital out from any CDP or transport. I want to be able to come home with a new CD, pop it in the transport/cd player, and listen without my tinnitus acting up.

Right now, I have no clue what to look at. It seems as though just about every new dac out on the market is mainly geared towards USB. Although, some have the ability to accept a digital input the reviews don't seem to share much details about the quality of sound thru the digital input. So I'm left scratching my head most of the time. The only one I have found to be geared towards CDP's is the Musical Fidelity MYDACII. But at $1100. I'm not sure it's worth it just yet. At that price shouldn't I just spend a few extra and get a fancy CDP? The Rega rDAC is quite a bit less at $750 so I am leaning that way a bit.

Anyone have any recommendations? Something that won't break the bank? I do hope there are still some out there that have not fully converted over to the USB DAC/Digital Files world.
 
In the price range you are in I would be looking at a Schiit Bitfrost Multibit ($599). I have never heard one but it gets excellent reviews around these parts.

Also with great reviews and cheaper is the $249 Schiit Modi Multibit.
 
In my experience only a true multibit DAC can reproduce faithfully the CD format.
A multibit CDP has an advantage over a stand alone DAC because of the fact that the internal connection is one that doesn't mix the clock with the data, but is not something that is impossible to be done right with the external DACs either.
Schiit Multibit DAC's are a good suggestion, but not the only one. A budget would help narrow the options.
 
In the price range you are in I would be looking at a Schiit Bitfrost Multibit ($599). I have never heard one but it gets excellent reviews around these parts.

Also with great reviews and cheaper is the $249 Schiit Modi Multibit.

In my experience only a true multibit DAC can reproduce faithfully the CD format.
A multibit CDP has an advantage over a stand alone DAC because of the fact that the internal connection is one that doesn't mix the clock with the data, but is not something that is impossible to be done right with the external DACs either.
Schiit Multibit DAC's are a good suggestion, but not the only one. A budget would help narrow the options.


Thanks for the input and suggestions!
I haven't really looked at the Schiit Products as much because it seemed as thought they were most geared towards USB.

Sonic, thanks for that info that definitely helps me quite a bit. With the Schiit Multibit products is it safe to say that it doesn't mix the clock and data via coaxial input?

As for my budget, I really don't want to spend anymore than $500. If it is necessary to get my ears to be happy, then I will spend more. But if I can do it for $500 or less than. I would be a very happy camper!
 
I'm not convinced Modi Multibit sounds analog, it's clean and detailed but pretty digital still, I blame the oversampling filter, I came across similar opinions on more expensive Schiit MB DACs too. If I were on this quest I'd first invest into an iFi SPDIF iPurifier and some decent coax or optical cables, and then try something like Muse NOS DAC with 4x TDA1543 chips which is only about $40 perhaps with a better linear PSU if it comes with a switch-mode type which I suspect it does. If it doesn't work out I'd try other DACs, and the iPurifier/cables would still be useful with them.
 
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Sonic, thanks for that info that definitely helps me quite a bit. With the Schiit Multibit products is it safe to say that it doesn't mix the clock and data via coaxial input?
Any SPDIF connection will have the clock mixed with the data. But a few DAC's, like Schit Multibit ones have on board a DSP (Digital Signal Processor) that can take care of cleaning the signal. The non-multibit ones (delta-sigma) don't have that DSP, they rely on what off-the-shelf receiver is in there. That's part of why the multibit are more expensive.

Also, I am using the SPDIF iPurifier that eliminates the jitter from the incoming SPDIF connection and makes the job of the DAC much "easier" in separating the data from the clock and the sound is so much cleaner and precise.
 
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As a diehard 16/44.1 kinda guy I'm a big fan of the vintage Parasound D/AC series DACs as I currently own two D/AC-1000.
I would'nt hesitate to use one of these DACs w/a decent CDP as a transport,IME the 2x PCM63P-J D/AC-1000 is a really sweet sounding unit.

And for CDP's I tend to stick with the vintage Philips/Magnavox CDP's that use the TDA1541 DACs.
Though I also have a couple of those with the TDA1543 DAC as well,but freely admit they are'nt quite the CDP as the TDA1541 players are.

Best part about all that sorta gear these days is that it does'nt necessarily break the bank as it's pretty reasonably priced most times.

Now I also have a Schiit optimodi currently in use,and I have used a Fiio D3 in the past as well.
And they sound decent enough for the systems they are/were used in,but they're not 100% up to par w/the SQ as the above gear.
So admitedly I'm not super critical about all this,but the differences are pretty clear when you really listen for them.
(Providng of course that the rest of the system can fully expose them)

I've also been considering adding the SPDIF iPurifier to the chain(s) too.
Been pondering some upgrades/mods to those Parasound DACs as well...

JM2¢ ~ FWIW ~ YMMV

Bret P.
 
I'm not convinced Modi Multibit sounds analog, it's clean and detailed but pretty digital still

I'm sure that may possibly be the case with most DACs under $500.

To be clear for everyone, I'm not trying to magically get digital to sound just like an analog turntable. In my eyes, they will always be different. My main goal is to have a digital rig that won't kill me with upper mid - high frequencies especially recordings with bad mastering. I know some like to roll of the mids and highs to get a better presentation. But that's not what I would like to do. I like a clean and detailed sound but I would really like to just more or less soften them up to have a more natural decay and tone. I hope that makes sense.

In my experience with listening to higher end systems with $1000+ dacs, I have heard the above to be possible. If anything, I'm hoping to do it for a lot less than that considering DAC technology has come along way. Which is why I'm asking around to see if anyone has experience with the lower price DACs

Any SPDIF connection will have the clock mixed with the data. But a few DAC's, like Schit Multibit ones have on board a DSP (Digital Signal Processor) that can take care of cleaning the signal. The non-multibit ones (delta-sigma) don't have that DSP, they rely on what off-the-shelf receiver is in there. That's part of why the multibit are more expensive.

Also, I am using the SPDIF iPurifier that eliminates the jitter from the incoming SPDIF connection and makes the job of the DAC much "easier" in separating the data from the clock and the sound is so much cleaner and precise.

Got it! :thumbsup:
Thanks Sonic!

It sounds like cleaning up the clock signal should be priority here since I'm plan to use a SPDIF, this is correct?
The iPurifier is on my list now. Is there anything else out there equal/better?

Also, is it correct to say that when using an SPDIF Connection it doesn't matter if the DAC is Asynchronus or Synchronus? I understand this is the case only when using a USB Connection?

As a diehard 16/44.1 kinda guy I'm a big fan of the vintage Parasound D/AC series DACs as I currently own two D/AC-1000.


And for CDP's I tend to stick with the vintage Philips/Magnavox CDP's that use the TDA1541 DACs.
Though I also have a couple of those with the TDA1543 DAC as well,but freely admit they are'nt quite the CDP as the TDA1541 players are.

Thanks for the recommendations Brett!
As much as I love my vintage, I would prefer to stay away from anything vintage-digital. Mainly for the fact that I'm not very knowledgeable with repair of these units when something goes awry. Not to mention most of the Tech's in my area refuse to touch something older than 15years.
Then again, if I come across one for a good deal. I may just go ahead and use it until it dies and then offer it up for grabs here on Bartertown. :idea:
 
Asynchronous label is applicable only to the USB connection.

SPDIF is a completelly different conduct for the data stream.
 
Any SPDIF connection will have the clock mixed with the data. But a few DAC's, like Schit Multibit ones have on board a DSP (Digital Signal Processor) that can take care of cleaning the signal. The non-multibit ones (delta-sigma) don't have that DSP, they rely on what off-the-shelf receiver is in there. That's part of why the multibit are more expensive.

Also, I am using the SPDIF iPurifier that eliminates the jitter from the incoming SPDIF connection and makes the job of the DAC much "easier" in separating the data from the clock and the sound is so much cleaner and precise.

I currently output SPDIF from a Sony DVD player DVP-S9000ES to a GD audio NFB-7 DAC. Would the iPurifier reduce jitter for my application? I honestly have no idea on the subject and you SoNic67 seem to be in the know!
 
If you have the NFB-7 with ES9018, it is probable that you won't hear too much of improvement, because ESS claims that they have incorporated some kind of jitter reduction.
However, I never tested that claim, and the actual implementation from Audio-GD might have that block bypassed. I don't see a true DSP either on their board, so... IDK. If $150 is not a big hole in your wallet, I would recommend it.
 
Thanks for the reply SoNic, I will likely try it. It's one of the original NFB-7's from 2010, so think that means it has the ES9018 inside.

What the heck? I have another DAC as well that it might help out considerably if not this one.
 
I just want to add that pairing applies to DACs as well, especially if the rest of the system isn't very neutral sounding. I've built my budget system using vintage components that I could pick for cheap when the right opportunity came, currently it consists of a Yamaha MX-600U amp, JBL L100 Century speakers and a Chi-Fi tube preamp/headphone amp. Listening mostly to music from computer over USB, no hi-res. I went through several used mid-fi DACs that I could score on eBay and my latest acquisition is a Schiit Modi Multibit as it got me curious from all the glowing reviews. The conclusion I came to is all the super-duper resolving hyped over neutral DACs sound just meh in my system, all the details are there the sound is not harsh and there is not much fatigue to speak of but they, Modi Multibit including, sound just plain boring. Out of the several DACs I went through my true favorite by a large margin is Arcam rDac which is based on the Wolfson (now Cirrus Logic) WM8741 DS chip. It is not super resolving, rather old at this point given the rate of DAC tech progress, and has been characterized as muddy and grainy by some, but heck it does sound musical on those JBLs, the sound just jumps out and flowing while the speakers disappear, and all for the "whooping" $150 shipped from eBay. If you have the time and desire then picking several well-regarded DACs of the recent past second hand and trying them may well be a winning strategy, they can then usually be resold with little loss or even gain in some cases.
 
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...rather old at this point given the rate of DAC tech progress...

The OP wants a DAC for 16/44. He reports getting 'fatigue' after listening to his current player for approximately 1 hour. It apparently causes him discomfort and that is not a good thing for the enjoyment of music- nobody wants that.

The choice of DAC is not going to change this in any way IMO, and there is no DAC on the face of the planet that 'sounds analogue', simply because there is NO characteristic that encompasses such a vague, non-specific description such as that.

I would be looking at bandwidth limiting, dynamic range compression and perhaps even some 'euphoric' harmonic distortion injection.

What about adding a low powered tube amplifier on the end?
 
Or a tube dac, but at $150, options are quite limited......Get an Onkyo C7030 CD player and think you will be happy. $19 over your budget.
 
Tubes are just low pass filters. You can do that with the EQ control at the amp.
I don't get why people say they get fatigue with digital, unless there is a lot of ultrasonic components in their system. A bad Delta sigma DAC can do that.
 
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