When is a phono pre-amp justified ?

I'm surprised that so many people are interested in independent phono units for integrated amps. Aside from modern stuff like Rogue Sphynx and Peachtree, I assumed outboard phono stages we're usually purchased to play with separates
 
it's a good experiment if you can swing the bucks for the external phono. PS Audio started their business with that product. ig if gives you a decent improvement, then you win.
 
I owned the A-S501 and liked it, but if you want to have a "good enough" phono stage you'll have to go to the A-S801 (which I bought after selling the A-S501). I also run the Rogue Sphinx, and the phono stage on that one just edges out the Yamaha's. From my experience, new integrates usually have to hit $1,000 retail before it get an inboard phono amp that lets you get away without having to use a separate phono stage. And you can still use MC carts on those integrateds if you attach an SUT.
 
It has been my experience that the on board phono stage. The sound or gain is very low, but once you turn up the volume, it works fine. Having three turntables in my system requires a phono preamp.
 
My experience with Yamaha RS-700(integrated analog receiver;$499) was great with MM cartridges. Sweet sound. Then I moved on to MC cartridges and the input sensitivity of phono input on RS-700 wasn't low enough so I added an iFi iPhono (SS) preamp. Not only was the MC amp on this preamp($450) excellent, the MM sound was so much improved(47kohm/100pF) that I stopped using the phono input completely on the RS-700! I hear that they have come out with a redesigned iPhono; must be even better on an already great product.
 
If I can re-activate this interesting thread, I am wondering if anyone has recommendations for reasonably priced (for me this would be well below the PS Audio price level) phono pre-amps that could improve on the Cambridge Audio A-1 that I currently have connected to my single-input DIY Paradise Charlize amp, just for its built-in phono stage, with an old Thorens TD-160 mkII.
Also, if anyone is familiar with the Cambridge A-1’s phono stage sound, let me know. It sounds a bit constricted to me, but I haven’t had a chance to listen to this TT through anything else.
 
I have an AS-501 and really liked the phono stage in it. Then I got a Parks Audio Budgie just to see what the deal was and I found it to be a big improvement. I have swapped back and forth and it is definitely better. The Yamaha sounded good but this is great. That's how it is to my ears.
 
Second on the Budgie. In my experience, that's the best in that price range for ready-made. If you can do a DIY kit, the Tavish Design Vintage is another good tube-based phono pre that sounds great.
 
I have an AS-501 and really liked the phono stage in it. Then I got a Parks Audio Budgie just to see what the deal was and I found it to be a big improvement. I have swapped back and forth and it is definitely better. The Yamaha sounded good but this is great. That's how it is to my ears.

Second on the Budgie. In my experience, that's the best in that price range for ready-made. If you can do a DIY kit, the Tavish Design Vintage is another good tube-based phono pre that sounds great.

Thanks to both. At some point, I may look into either of those, though I have a lower budget right now. The friendly guy at a local shop advised me it would cost more than $250 or so to improve on the stage I’m using now, but I like the idea of doing a DIY one sometime, even if Tavish seem to be sold out of all their assembled and DIY Vintage options currently.
 
Just FIY in case you go the Tavish route, I never built an amp before and I found their parts list/instructions extremely helpful. I had no problem whatsoever building the thing.
 
The Lounge MKIII is $300. It’s a little more than your budget. I’m seriously looking at it but I need to read some reviews first. I already have the Lounge Copla, I wasn’t actively looking for it but one came up locally and I’m impulsive.

As far as integrated preamps go, the one in my Mitsubishi DA-r25 is noticeably better than a couple of cheap pre’s I picked up to play around with.
 
There are several solid phono preamps you can dig up for a few bucks. If I pick up a unit with a phono stage and everything is working I give it a shot and see how it sounds. If it is not happening, then you have to weigh the costs to get something added vs getting another set up. It's always subjective too. Good luck!
 
I am going to sound like a prick. What table/cart is being used? If the table/cart are entry level then save your money and use the internal phono stage.

I would upgrade the table/cart then purchase a stage of equal quality. To many audiophiles make side way purchases tread lightly
 
I've owned several CR-820s, sold them all. Repaired many more. The phono stage ranked as one of the poorest sounding RIAA stages I have ever heard. It's a three transistor design- yes, three. They really pushed the boat out on that didn't they?

Here's the schematic of the left channel, CR-820 RIAA stage:

View attachment 956222

Well. Perhaps. My Yammu 820 sounds still nice. As do My Kenwood KR-V6040. Which riaa look like this. Not that mucho more complicated ;-)
 

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