Idler wheel turntable opinions

[cleverdick]

I once had a Nivico SRP-467, but it didn't last long. I never liked the undersized platter, nor the fixed-headshell arm with no overhang adjustment. Sadly it had a couple of terminal accidents thanks to my youthful carelessness.

But I did retain the knobs from it....

 

[Rog50]

Just picked up a Lenco L-70. Having a new idler wheel sent over from Italy and a vintage cart from a CAM member should be in the mail. Stripping it to replace the lubricants and it should be up and running next week.

Picked up a Dual 1229 from a CAM member last month and although I want to rebuild it, it has surplanted one of my Technics SL D202's and is in every other day use. Probably easier getting parts for an old Dual than an old Lenco, but both are an adventure.

 

[nj pheonix]

I want to preface my comments with, my TT knowledge can fill a small thimble.
I've had several 1019s.
Certainly not a bad table.
I had a long conversation with Seth (no transistors). He seemed partial to the 1219.

Mr Pig,
Thanks for the tour of the Japanese idlers.
I wasn't aware of any of them. From looks alone I like the Trio!

 

[mfrench]

Just picked up a Lenco L-70. Having a new idler wheel sent over from Italy and a vintage cart from a CAM member should be in the mail. Stripping it to replace the lubricants and it should be up and running next week.

Picked up a Dual 1229 from a CAM member last month and although I want to rebuild it, it has surplanted one of my Technics SL D202's and is in every other day use. Probably easier getting parts for an old Dual than an old Lenco, but both are an adventure.

If you work on the motor, be extremely careful with the nose screw. They break regularly (not sure how, as I've reworked a bunch of Lenco motors and never had an issue).

 

[jeffpaletz]

I'm curious as to why you want an idler wheel turntable. I had a Dual 1229 new back in the 1970s . I couldn't stand the rumble, audible between tracks. I sold it after a year and got a Technics SL-1650. I still use it today and it still works perfectly. I do repairs on turntables and Duals are the most complicated to fix and break frequently unless restored by an expert (not me in this case).

 

[2020]

I'm curious as to why you want an idler wheel turntable. I had a Dual 1229 new back in the 1970s . I couldn't stand the rumble, audible between tracks. I sold it after a year and got a Technics SL-1650. I still use it today and it still works perfectly. I do repairs on turntables and Duals are the most complicated to fix and break frequently unless restored by an expert (not me in this case).

Thanks for your response. I appreciate all opinions. Actually, the rumble question is what has kept me away from idler drives all these years, but idler fans tell me rumble is not a factor when properly setup and maintained. That's also why I wanted opinions, even if the opinion is "don't do it!"

For the sake of full disclosure, I should have mentioned earlier that I am not new to turntables at all. Over the years I have usually preferred belt drive, but heard an idler drive a while back with some kid of richness I really liked. May have even been euphonic without measurable differentiation.

 

[malden]

I own several idlers and use a ELAC Miracord 40A daily, rumble is never a problem.

 

[guiller]

Just picked up a Lenco L-70. Having a new idler wheel sent over from Italy and a vintage cart from a CAM member should be in the mail. Stripping it to replace the lubricants and it should be up and running next week.

Congratulations! Is the new idler wheel from Audiosilente?

 

[ChristopherP]

There are several turntables at my disposal - idler, belt and direct drives. Lately I've been favouring the idlers - Duals and Garrards but primarily the Duals. Mostly because they're the oldest. An original 1009 circa 1964 (age about 55 years) works just it did when brand new and that appeals to me. Same for a 1009F that is a few years younger.

I've had some Elac's but no longer because their weakness is where the cartridge sled interfaces with the tonearm head. I found that the plastic holding the set of contact strips on the tone arm's underside is subject to breaking. If one were to install a cartridge and seldom remove it, things would be fine but the design does not lend itself well to frequent cartridge swapping. They are nice looking though and appearances count.

But I'll qualify that by saying I think Elac's are good looking now. When I saw brand new ones for the first time in the late 1960's, I thought they were crude and clunky compared to Duals. Boxy headshells and that row of push buttons were deal breakers then.

Since I've been the Elac route already, about the only model I would "seek to own" these days is a Model 10 and only because it's older and funkier looking than those I've had.

EDIT: Regarding looks again. My Garrards are both Zero 100's. Somewhat complicated and less user friendly to service but about the prettiest turntable out there.

Have to agree about the crude and clunky reaction, I bought a Dual 1019 instead. I also agree about the headshell of the Miracord, I thought the Dual was better. I like my Braun because it has the Elac mechanics and an SME headshell on the end of the arm. Came that way. I really like and have used them all. A Lenco is on my bucket list.

 

[91r100gs]

AS a owner of a 1219 . the rumble is always present on speakers that go below 30hz. If i turn off the sub on my main system it is no problem.
turn on the sub and it is there. Not horrible but it is in the background

 

[Rog50]

Congratulations! Is the new idler wheel from Audiosilente?

Yup
Should get it this Tuesday

 

[jeffpaletz]

As I suspected, the rumble is always there. My speakers back in the mid 1970s which I still use in my basement system is a pair of JBL L100s which have 12" woofers. My receiver is a Pioneer SX-1050 with the low bass at 50hz, turned up. I like good, strong, deep bass. That must explain why I dislike idler drive turntables. There is no audible rumble from the Technics direct drive turntables that I use. I also like the simple design with only one moving part which is the platter unless the automatic function is engaged. My recommendation is: Don't do it unless you use smaller speakers without much bass reproduction.

 

[malden]

I alternate between a Rek-O-Kut L37, Garrard Lab 80 and Miracord 10 (all idlers) in my office. Due to limited space, the turntable in use sits next to a speaker. None of them have exhibited any audible rumble. The funny thing is, one day while shirking my duties, I replaced one of the idlers with a Pro-Ject 1.1 (belt drive, of course) and guess what? Sitting right next to the speaker, same location as the idlers, the Pro-Ject belt drive could not handle any volume past 10:00 without producing low frequency feedback. So, back in the closet it went.

 

[guiller]

Yup
Should get it this Tuesday

Excellent! I´ve got mine from him and it works great on my Lenco.

 

[muovimies]

Most idler drive turntables came with the table mounted on some sort of springs, which in my experience with Duals and Lencos is a bad idea and I'm willing to take a leap of faith to extend that to most other idlers as well. That arrangement usually seems to amplify any rumble that is there. I also dislike the presentation in terms of sound, some people disagree but to my ears there's usually a certain coloration in the bass frequencies which goes away once you get rid of the springs.

Even the simplest idler has a drive system that's mechanically complex (relative to belt or DD) with several potential failure points and sources of noise, and most of these machines are 50+ years old at this stage, so they have a lot of individual history in terms of wear and tear to moving parts, ageing of rubber parts etc. so I wouldn't recommend one as a plug'n'play solution unless it happens to be a very well maintained unit, or preferably at this stage has been gone over by someone who knows what they are doing . That said a good idler can be a very musically satisfying listen, with certain authority and healthy bounce in the step and after getting used to my Lencos it would be hard to go back and it seems I'm not alone.

 

[JFRACE]

I have owned a Dual 12229Q, Dual 1019, Elac Miracord 50H, Rek O Kut Rondine Jr L-34 (look at my avatar pic and click on view picture for a better pic), several lower ended Garrard changer types, Rek O Kut B-12H (being restored now), and also have a Maggie console that has the idler table in it (which also will be getting a full restoration). All of them had one thing in common-better and quicker bass response to me than a belt drive.

Now prior to them being restored as best as I could myself, there was audible rumble, afterwards-none that I could hear. I am nowhere near a professional either. I also didn't hook anything up to any equipment to test,but used my ears as well as a few other people's ears. I've noticed redoing the idler wheel, and redoing the motors and replacing rubber grommets were the key.

I have also been interested in trying out a Lenco, but for the price vs what needs to be put into them, it hasn't made financial sense for me to do it at this point.

You'll also notice, outside of Dual, Elac, and a few others, all of them need to be heavily modified in order to get superior sound quality against the stock ones (belt,idler,and dd tables included) with arms, removing parts, adding parts etc. So if you're not looking to drop much money,I'd go with a stock Dual or Elac, or maybe even a Garrard. My ROK L-34 had a Grado wooden arm, and the ROK B-12H has the micropoise arm, and they came with them that way. The L-34 when finished along with my 1019 when finished were super quiet and could hang with my fully modded AR-XA (pictured in the middle of my avatar), as well as my Ariston RD-11 Superior (which was also fully modded,to the left), but you could hear they slightly lacked in fine detail due to the stock set up.But the differences in $500-$700+ in mods should have made one.

I also use my belt drives for slightly more laid back music and the idlers for rock,dance types of music. I have come to like the sound of the Dual 1019,ROK L-34 over the others with the ROK being the nicest of them. I can't really say much about the B-12H until it's finished it's about 80% of the way there though.

Here's a few pictures of the B-12H, many have turned their noses up to the color I redid the plinth in, but the original color was very badly done, so until I decide on another plinth, or color,or veneer, I chose the Colonial Red high gloss. I really like the color on it, and as you can tell in my avatar, like tables a little out of the ordinary when it comes to their plinths. Photo quality isn't that great, but you get the picture.

 

[twiiii]

I'd look for a Studio QRK. They require a sand filled base for best performance. Install a 30 HZ hi-pass filter and you'll be all set. Of course you need a new or rebuilt drive idler.

That said I owned both the 1229 and 50 H for a while. I preferred the 50H. It was more dependable.

 

[stereofisher]

I have owned a Dual 12229Q, Dual 1019, Elac Miracord 50H, Rek O Kut Rondine Jr L-34 (look at my avatar pic and click on view picture for a better pic), several lower ended Garrard changer types, Rek O Kut B-12H (being restored now), and also have a Maggie console that has the idler table in it (which also will be getting a full restoration). All of them had one thing in common-better and quicker bass response to me than a belt drive.

Now prior to them being restored as best as I could myself, there was audible rumble, afterwards-none that I could hear. I am nowhere near a professional either. I also didn't hook anything up to any equipment to test,but used my ears as well as a few other people's ears. I've noticed redoing the idler wheel, and redoing the motors and replacing rubber grommets were the key.

I have also been interested in trying out a Lenco, but for the price vs what needs to be put into them, it hasn't made financial sense for me to do it at this point.

You'll also notice, outside of Dual, Elac, and a few others, all of them need to be heavily modified in order to get superior sound quality against the stock ones (belt,idler,and dd tables included) with arms, removing parts, adding parts etc. So if you're not looking to drop much money,I'd go with a stock Dual or Elac, or maybe even a Garrard. My ROK L-34 had a Grado wooden arm, and the ROK B-12H has the micropoise arm, and they came with them that way. The L-34 when finished along with my 1019 when finished were super quiet and could hang with my fully modded AR-XA (pictured in the middle of my avatar), as well as my Ariston RD-11 Superior (which was also fully modded,to the left), but you could hear they slightly lacked in fine detail due to the stock set up.But the differences in $500-$700+ in mods should have made one.

I also use my belt drives for slightly more laid back music and the idlers for rock,dance types of music. I have come to like the sound of the Dual 1019,ROK L-34 over the others with the ROK being the nicest of them. I can't really say much about the B-12H until it's finished it's about 80% of the way there though.

Here's a few pictures of the B-12H, many have turned their noses up to the color I redid the plinth in, but the original color was very badly done, so until I decide on another plinth, or color,or veneer, I chose the Colonial Red high gloss. I really like the color on it, and as you can tell in my avatar, like tables a little out of the ordinary when it comes to their plinths. Photo quality isn't that great, but you get the picture.

View attachment 997788 View attachment 997789 View attachment 997790

First of all. I really your choice of color on the B-12H!

As for choices I am married to Dual's. Have had most models at given times. The 1009s and 1019s work well. The plug in headshell can be an issue. As it was on my 1010S. The contacts loosened on it. There are replacements available for them. They fit tight on the arm. Be careful if you get one when attaching to the arm! I broke a catch on a 1015. I like the sound of this series. The first 1009 had a different plug in head and never have had issues with this model. While it lacks a cue and antiskate, they sound really good.

The balk of my Dual family are 1219s and a 1229. Once gone through, they are an amazing machine. While I like a good manual turntable, I like watching automatics like my Dual's cycle on and off! Never out grew it as a kid! Have had many manuals and there a lot of good ones out there. I like the 1219s the best. Have to work really hard to hear any rumble on any off them (4). Have had a lot of practice fixing these up. Old dried grease is the biggest issue. Frozen speed selectors,on-off and dried grease in the big gear. Usually the stuerpimple is gone or going the makes the arm land on the record and return when it stops. The plug in head is better too. I have unit 1, my daily player running now. It's hooked to a Marantz 4270 with ADS 810 speaker. They are heavy on bass. No rumble. My livingroom set has a 1229 with a second 4270 with JBL 100 up front. Rumble is not a factor. In all due respect to other posters, we hear differently. Road tested a VPI HR19. Dead quiet! Sweet and way over my budget.

Last, I have owned several Miracords. Gave on away to a friend who begged for a system. Regret loosing it. Never had an issue with the contacts in the arm. Guess I was lucky. Liked them. I do prefer the arm on the Dual 1219 though. I think would not be a deal breaker if a Miracord shows up again. Hope this helps.View attachment 997878

 

[mad shadows]

Put a Lenco or a Garrard in a heavy plinth and there will be no rumble. If it rumbles it´s broken and needs to be fixed.

 

[Man in Cave]

I know nothing of these idler tables but managed to find one Sunday. JVC Nivico SRP-471E-5. It's my first. I very much dig the look of the tone arm with the anti skate weight just hanging there and stuff. Very classy looking to these eyes and will clean up nicely. There's a lot to shine up on this old Japanese table including the platter, knobs and tone arm... It works, meaning the motor is not seized up and the rubber idler wheels are both soft. The motor mounts have not deteriorated as I've read this is a common failing with this model. I understand parts are hard to come by. Hopefully I can bring it to working condition after a tear down and lube job. It is missing the right front original spring. There's a replacement spring there though. The plinth has some corner damage in the front but it's not terrible. The cover is not cracked and will buff out very nicely. The cartridge is intact and old, I know, but the tip looks fine under the loupe. I already gave it an initial cleaning with many more to come. I know it's been stored awhile and the seasoned citizen I bought it from was not the original owner. I'm excited and it's just the kind of table for someone like me that enjoys cleaning and making things look nice. Thanks for looking.

S.J.

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