OMG!!! New MC1.25KW !!!

No content. You haven't *showed* anyone anything. That would require quoting something that JA actually wrote.

Fail.

I am not trying to show "anyone" anything, I am showing "you" something as you seem to be the only person here who is unable to understand.

"Sentry Monitor circuit, which monitors heatsink temperature, would protect the amplifier against thermal runaway."

The Sentry Monitor circuit does not monitor heatsink temperature, the thermal sensor which has nothing to do with the Sentry Monitoring circuit is what monitors the heatsink temperature.
If the safe operating current threshold is reached, the sentry monitoring circuit will limit the current to a safe operating area, this is determined by a current sensing circuit.
 
No content. You haven't *showed* anyone anything. That would require quoting something that JA actually wrote. Obviously, that is beyond your ability.

You haven't quoted a single word found in the review. Do you understand?

Fail.

If you fail to understand my last post, then click on your own link and read the article.
 
If you fail to understand my last post, then click on your own link and read the article.
It doesn't mater he will never admit he's wrong in anything, I see this behavior constantly as he does this in every thread till he closes it.
 
The Sentry Monitor circuit does not monitor heatsink temperature...
Perhaps you should read the manual where that concept is established on page 4:

-Patented Sentry Monitor with Thermal Protection
McIntosh Sentry Monitor power output stage protection
circuits ensure the MC501 will have a long and trouble free
operating life. Built-in Thermal Protection Circuits guard
against overheating.


Sentry Monitor with Thermal Protection. Let's say that again:
Sentry Monitor with Thermal Protection. Let's say at least one more time:
Sentry Monitor with Thermal Protection.

Did you get this time?

Any more misunderstanding of facts? Obviously nothing at all as to what JA has said contrary to your imagination. Sheesh!

This previous comment is wholly without any factual support:

"The assumption [made by JA] was what tripped the thermal protection, sentry doesn't trip, it is a DC current limiter."
 
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It would appear so. Forget that I have the MC501 service manual sitting right in front of me, very plain to see (not that I HAVE to see) that the sentry has nothing to do with heatsink temperature monitoring.
I'm only a tech, what would I know...

It doesn't mater he will never admit he's wrong in anything, I see this behavior constantly as he does this in every thread till he closes it.



 
A point of clarification here - on later model McIntosh power amplifiers, of which the MC501 is one, the Power Guard lamp is also used to indicate a fault by staying on continuously. Curiously enough, no mention of this appears in any OM that I'm aware of.

I recall the issue well at which JA reported poor thermal time for the MC501 as discussed here. 1/3 power tests, like the results or not, are indicative of thermal performance with very spirited listening sessions.

Really, this thread is all over the map with multiple non-related topics being intermingled ...
 
It would appear so. Forget that I have the MC501 service manual sitting right in front of me, very plain to see (not that I HAVE to see) that the sentry has nothing to do with heatsink temperature monitoring.
I'm only a tech, what would I know...
So - if JA cites what the McIntosh manual has stated as fact, tell us who is to blame?
 
Perhaps you should read the manual where that concept is established on page 4:

-Patented Sentry Monitor with Thermal Protection
McIntosh Sentry Monitor power output stage protection
circuits ensure the MC501 will have a long and trouble free
operating life. Built-in Thermal Protection Circuits guard
against overheating.


Sentry Monitor with Thermal Protection. Let's say that again:
Sentry Monitor with Thermal Protection. Let's say at least one more time:
Sentry Monitor with Thermal Protection.

Did you get this time?

Any more misunderstanding of facts? Obviously nothing at all as to what JA has said contrary to your imagination. Sheesh!

This previous comment is wholly without any factual support:

"The assumption [made by JA] was what tripped the thermal protection, sentry doesn't trip, it is a DC current limiter."

The Sentry Monitor circuit is a current limiting circuit.
The Thermal protection, is monitored with a different circuit.
 
The Sentry Monitor circuit is a current limiting circuit.
The Thermal protection, is monitored with a different circuit.
So, after all this posturing, let's return to the original question, shall we?

When the thermal protection shut down the amplifier after five minutes of operation, why did the Powerguard LED illuminate? That's a separate circuit, right?
 
So, after all this posturing, let's return to the original question, shall we?

When the thermal protection shut down the amplifier after five minutes of operation, why did the Powerguard LED illuminate? That's a separate circuit, right?
You just don't know when to stop do you.
Take your condescending crap somewhere else.
 
Seriously guys, the McIntosh fan bois appear to be ganging up and not clarifying anything here.

E-Stat may be a little difficult at times, but nobody has clarified the way the MC501 power guard and thermal protection works.

The Powerguard in the MC501 is just a simple circuit that attenuates the input signal to the voltage stage. It is not magical. It simply compares the signal input voltage to the padded down feedback from the output stage and turns on an LED that causes a ubiquitous LDR to go low in resistance and shunt some of the input audio to ground.

Bottom line: PowerGuard turns the volume down for you.

The thermal protection shuts the amp down. Each channel has its own NTC thermistor and sensing transistor switch. Nothing special here either.

The current limiting is separate, conventional in nature and not monitored or displayed.

The fact that it shut down after 5 mins at 1/3 power suggests to me that there may have been a dodgy NTC in one channel or it was a very hot day in JA's labs. Or it is simply, a poor design.

You cannot dismiss the very preconditioning tests that lead to the quality gear we now treasure, just because one mighty Mc failed in this regard.
 
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Seriously guys, the McIntosh fan bois appear to be ganging up and not clarifying anything here.

E-Stat may be a little difficult at times, but nobody has clarified the way the MC501 power guard and thermal protection works.

The Powerguard in the MC501 is just a simple circuit that attenuates the input signal to the voltage stage. It is not magical. It simply compares the signal input voltage to the padded down feedback from the output stage and turns on an LED that causes a ubiquitous LDR to go low in resistance and shunt some of the input audio to ground.

Bottom line: PowerGuard turns the volume down for you.

The thermal protection shuts the amp down. Each channel has its own NTC thermistor and sensing transistor switch. Nothing special here either.

The current limiting is separate, conventional in nature and not monitored or displayed.

The fact that it shut down after 5 mins at 1/3 power suggests to me that there may have been a dodgy NTC in one channel or it was a very hot day in JA's labs. Or it is simply, a poor design.

You cannot dismiss the very preconditioning tests that lead to the quality gear we now treasure, just because one mighty Mc failed in this regard.
No argument here - see post #109.
 
Seriously guys, the McIntosh fan bois appear to be ganging up and not clarifying anything here.

E-Stat may be a little difficult at times, but nobody has clarified the way the MC501 power guard and thermal protection works.

The Powerguard in the MC501 is just a simple circuit that attenuates the input signal to the voltage stage. It is not magical. It simply compares the signal input voltage to the padded down feedback from the output stage and turns on an LED that causes a ubiquitous LDR to go low in resistance and shunt some of the input audio to ground.

Bottom line: PowerGuard turns the volume down for you.

The thermal protection shuts the amp down. Each channel has its own NTC thermistor and sensing transistor switch. Nothing special here either.

The current limiting is separate, conventional in nature and not monitored or displayed.

The fact that it shut down after 5 mins at 1/3 power suggests to me that there may have been a dodgy NTC in one channel or it was a very hot day in JA's labs. Or it is simply, a poor design.

You cannot dismiss the very preconditioning tests that lead to the quality gear we now treasure, just because one mighty Mc failed in this regard.

We know the current limiting is separate, I have already explained this umpteen times, but it appeared to be upsetting Mr E-Stat.

I also pointed out the Sentry circuit function.

The wording was not correct in the article, nothing more nothing less, it was misleading as to how the thermal protection functions

The thermal protection works like this according to the schematic I have here, the thermistor senses the temp which is in turn using a driver transistor can utilize the Sentry Circuit to reduce the current load of the output section and ultimately reduce the temperature of the said output section.
My point was, which was ignored by only one person, is that the thermal state is measured by the Thermistor (Thermal sensor), not the Sentry Monitoring Circuit (as McIntosh call it), I'd describe what they call the "Sentry Monitoring Circuit" as a simple current limiter circuit.
The thermal sensor can also shut down the amplifier completely, I haven't looked at that part, but in most cases it will shut down the main DC rails and disconnect the output from the speaker, I admit I haven't studied this part so cannot go into detail at this point.

Nobody said there was anything unique or special about it at all, lots of amps have protection built in, which in my opinion is a good thing.

I would like to think it was a faulty Thermistor or or other faulty component, but perhaps, the thermal management was not up to the task, but seriously, at 30W it shut down, to me this suggests fault.
We certainly do not see people complaining of their 501's shutting down every other day.

Maybe we'll never know what the issue was.
 
...Maybe we'll never know what the issue was...

I agree, and reading between the review lines, I think JA was aware it may have been an aberration, as the rest of the review was excellent and no mention was made again at the end.

Back in the day, they would make a big fuss and get a second review sample, but at 40kg+ nobody probably felt like carting another one into the lab. :)

I don't anyone would ever accuse McIntosh of making amps that overheat.
 
I agree, and reading between the review lines, I think JA was aware it may have been an aberration, as the rest of the review was excellent and no mention was made again at the end.

Back in the day, they would make a big fuss and get a second review sample, but at 40kg+ nobody probably felt like carting another one into the lab. :)

I don't anyone would ever accuse McIntosh of making amps that overheat.

It wasn't a bad review at all, and you'd have to wonder with it shutting down at less than 10% of its rated continuous power output about a fault, and I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to heave another one of those amps into position for another go.

There may have also been something going on behind the scenes nobody will ever know about too.

Agreed, and I think we can safely put this one to bed.
 
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