Wood Glue as Vinyl Cleaner

[stevoz]

I don't want to offend, and can understand the wish to save money, but you are all cheapskates....wood glue!! Dig a little deeper into your pockets. Revirginizer beats everything, without residue, with just one application and gives perfect static free results every time.....

 

[Bujodrag]

Revirginizer

Good name for a rock band.

 

[guest110]

I don't want to offend, and can understand the wish to save money, but you are all cheapskates....wood glue!! Dig a little deeper into your pockets. Revirginizer beats everything, without residue, with just one application and gives perfect static free results every time.....

It's the same technology, just a PVA mask, except without the acids, salts, and includes a cationic surfactant to reduce static. Hence, it is better for your records, but it does contain a high percentage of alcohol which could leach plasticizers. If you have the dough and don't want to make your own mask solutions, the Revirginizer is indeed preferable. Few realize how acidic the glues are and how acids etch PVC.

 

[Bujodrag]

I kept several records in glue for a full year. Nothing happened to them. Perfectly playable records.
Maybe if I had kept them for ten years....

 

[guest110]

I kept several records in glue for a full year. Nothing happened to them. Perfectly playable records.
Maybe if I had kept them for ten years....

Anecdotal and unscientific. If you studied the surface before and after, and examined the integrity of the vinyl, you'd see the difference. It's your record, do what you want to it, but the breakdown of PVC in LPs under acidic conditions and subsequent release of HCL is well documented as is the etching effect of acids. See for yourself: take a transparent vinyl record (one of the many special releases that come in a variety of colors, make sure it is new or extra clean, and put the glue in a pattern on it (e.g. paint a stripe). Let it dry, remove it, and hold the record up to the light. You'll see where the glue had been.
TitebondII is an acid (mostly acetate) with a pH of 3. Acid is a great cleaner, but it does so by “etching” surfaces, particularly plastics. In fact, artists often use acids like vinegar (also an acetate with pH 3) to produce designs on plastics. Google it.

 

[Bujodrag]

Of course, it is not scientific, too small test numbers and no control group.
But, I did examine records before glueing, in fact, two of them i knew by heart, every click and pop. They sounded the same after glue.

Maybe glue that I used is not that much acidic

 

[Mopic5]

Just an update on an inquiry from Chris.....

Hello,

I'm new to the forum, but have previously been directed to your posting from other sites. It seems as though you are one of the earlier adapters of the wood glue cleaning method. As such, I was wondering if you have been doing the method consistently since you made that post in '07? I love the results I've gotten, and I am someone who takes the time to do it right. It doesn't bother me that it takes overnight to dry. But what I am wondering is if you've seen any destructive results over the years, as you've continued to play records that you've glue cleaned? Any degradation of the record beyond normal wear that you might attribute to the glue's long term impact (acid erosion, etc.) And what about your stylus? Did it cause that to wear down prematurely due to some unseen, microscopic glue residual left behind? Thanks for any answers you can provide on this.

-Chris

The Resonse:

Hi Chris,
Sorry it took me a while to log back onto AudioKarma (new browser, forgotten password....) Anyway...
Yes I continue to use wood glue as my "go to" method for cleaning records. I go through nearly a gallon of TiteBond II a year in the cleaning of around six dozen records (both sides). There have been no long term effects that I have been able observe since I began doing this about a decade ago.
That said..... one should be vigilant in avoiding leaving tiny "orphaned islands" of glue in the initial spreading of the glue. These islands will most often be found in the run-out (although some who don't include the run-in in their main "puddle" of the spread application may find them there, as well.) These orphaned islands which will be left behind on the record after the peel, can cause a stylus some unwanted impediment - but probably no more so than a dried up silverfish nit which is also an everyday hazard with vintage vinyl. How much to gauge these kind of threats to a stylus will certainly be weighted to the delicacy and the expense of the pick-up.
The best precaution to take in this area is bright lighting in the glue cleaning process and close inspections of post peel vinyl. Remember, if you do find these island, just re-glue the side, incorporating the orphans, and peel them away.
Hope this response is the proper measure of encouragement and caution. The caution really surrounds the "craft" one learns in the application of this process.
All best,
Mario (Mopic5)
P.S. You can cut down on your dry time with a cheap box fan blowing across the records @ low/med speed (2-3 hours per side).

 

[Amy Woods]

More tales using Screwfix's 'No Nonsense Wood Glue' (£5.60 for a 1lt bottle or £20 for a big 5lt jerry can...)

I went to town on a rather tatty copy of The Blue Niles 'Walk across the Rooftops'
that I bought second hand a few years ago for £1.

All I can say is wow. This LP now sounds like it's just left the pressing plant. All dirt is
completely gone. Trick is to make sure you use enough at the lead-in and lead-out
grooves - makes it easier to peel off. Like icing a cake...

Side 1...

Side 2 after cleaning...

That Blue Nile LP now sounds amazing. I was ready for chucking it and getting a
new copy of it. Glad I didn't. It cost me 5 minutes of my time to give it good coating
of glue, then let it dry for 20 hours. No skin off my nose how long it takes to dry
out - I can do more LPs in that time.





James H

I can't believe I never thought of this what absolute genius! Think that Gorilla wood glue would do the trick? https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18931

 

[MannyE]

First off, I've done the wood glue thing and it works.

I wonder if a buffer can be added to TiteBond II to raise the pH and eliminate the possible acid issue. I say possible because I've done several records without any deleterious effects even after 10 years or so.

The only other thing I will add is that I really don't hear an improvement over a simple Spin Clean. Yes, gluing and peeling will improve a filthy record. But a good old Spin Clean will do the same. Adding wood glue AFTER the Spin Clean does not, to my ears anyway, make a big difference.

 

[Hyperion]

Think that Gorilla wood glue would do the trick?

If you are determined to try that, best not pick one of your 'favorite' records as a first try - if you catch my drift... (just try the ordinary wood glue).

BTW: Welcome to AK!

 

[John James]

I can't believe I never thought of this what absolute genius! Think that Gorilla wood glue would do the trick? https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p18931

Only on albums by the Monkees!

 

[MannyE]

Anecdotal and unscientific. If you studied the surface before and after, and examined the integrity of the vinyl, you'd see the difference. It's your record, do what you want to it, but the breakdown of PVC in LPs under acidic conditions and subsequent release of HCL is well documented as is the etching effect of acids. See for yourself: take a transparent vinyl record (one of the many special releases that come in a variety of colors, make sure it is new or extra clean, and put the glue in a pattern on it (e.g. paint a stripe). Let it dry, remove it, and hold the record up to the light. You'll see where the glue had been.
TitebondII is an acid (mostly acetate) with a pH of 3. Acid is a great cleaner, but it does so by “etching” surfaces, particularly plastics. In fact, artists often use acids like vinegar (also an acetate with pH 3) to produce designs on plastics. Google it.

Check out this guy. He looks at the surface of the record before and after with a microscope. Unlike many of these videos, he shows us the surface before and after and more importantly, actually plays the record before and after.

However, I think the important bit is at the very end where he makes his conclusions which are very similar to mine.

 

[onwardjames]

First off, I've done the wood glue thing and it works.

I wonder if a buffer can be added to TiteBond II to raise the pH and eliminate the possible acid issue. I say possible because I've done several records without any deleterious effects even after 10 years or so.

The only other thing I will add is that I really don't hear an improvement over a simple Spin Clean. Yes, gluing and peeling will improve a filthy record. But a good old Spin Clean will do the same. Adding wood glue AFTER the Spin Clean does not, to my ears anyway, make a big difference.

It depends. I have the Spin Clean, and using a wood glue treatment AFTER a Spin Clean has indeed improved things. This is only for the most stubborn of records tho. Otherwise, completely agree.

If you are determined to try that, best not pick one of your 'favorite' records as a first try - if you catch my drift... (just try the ordinary wood glue).

BTW: Welcome to AK!

PLEASE use ONLY Titebond 2. There are a few others, I especially like Aleene's Tacky, but it's a bitch to pull off.

Also, welcome to AK!

 

[MannyE]

It depends. I have the Spin Clean, and using a wood glue treatment AFTER a Spin Clean has indeed improved things. This is only for the most stubborn of records tho. Otherwise, completely agree.

PLEASE use ONLY Titebond 2. There are a few others, I especially like Aleene's Tacky, but it's a bitch to pull off.

Also, welcome to AK!

Hey did you notice the glue the guy uses in the video in my post #2132 is clear rather than the yellowish Titebond 2? Maybe the Brits have a wood glue that's better? I'm trying to see what it is but the label is hard to read. Any Brits on here maybe know what that brand is?

 

[petemcfc]

The Brand is Unibond.
Heres the technical data.
https://www.everbuild.co.uk/product/502-all-purpose-weatherproof-wood-adhesive/

 

[John James]

Is there anything the collective AK mind doesn't know?

 

[petemcfc]

Ive used it,and I didn't get the results that the guy in the video did.
I've found over the years that youtube tutorials can be a bit iffy.

 

[Homer4beer]

Great thread. Will try this soon

 

[MannyE]

Ive used it,and I didn't get the results that the guy in the video did.
I've found over the years that youtube tutorials can be a bit iffy.

Yeah but did you use the massive amount of glue he used? I found that there's an RCH of difference between too little glue and enough to peel off easily. Too much is only a problem if you put so much on it that it spills over to the label. Aside from taking a long time to dry, the more you put on, generally the easier it is to remove. That's where for me, I reached the "too little" phase and it was a pain in the ass to remove. I had to re-glue it with a thick coat.

 

[dfunghi]

I had so little improvement versus the US set up I gave up on WG. It is a lot of tedious work, really painfully slow and sporadic results (at least for me). The US set up I use I can now (with much practice) do about 25-28 LPs in under 2 hours (washing time) plus an additional hour for extra careful, complete air drying cycle and re sleeve. I do both an US bath and a hand scrub, rinse and vac.