Big if. When it starts getting around 40hz and up sound becomes easier to localize.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Do you have any ready sources that support your assertion of the localizability of sub-80Hz sound?
Big if. When it starts getting around 40hz and up sound becomes easier to localize.
So, if sub-60Hz is non-localizable, then the concept of "channels" does not apply to such signals, and it matters not which of any or all your subs output the sound into the listening room.
Not got or had a sub myself but can't they be tuned to do exactly that.In that case, wouldn't it be best to break the low-end into separate frequencies which each sub would then handle on its own to reduce overall interference between competing same-frequency points sources?
So, if sub-60Hz is non-localizable, then the concept of "channels" does not apply to such signals, and it matters not which of any or all your subs output the sound into the listening room.
Ah, now we're getting somewhere. Do you have any ready sources that support your assertion of the localizability of sub-80Hz sound?
Agree, but I think the issue is more that low pass crossovers are not brickwall in nature. Even the 12 db/octave slope of my subs (have a pair) allows audible output above 100 hz even when set to 50 hz.Of course it matters. Subs are directional. I've never heard or sold a subwoofer that can reproduce frequencies that don't betray their positions. It's a myth, especially when the content contains instruments with a range down to low frequencies where they are placed left or right in the mix.
...but I think the issue is more that low pass crossovers are not brickwall in nature...
Noooooo! Just observing their nature.Surely not. E-Stat advocating for a brickwall filter? Hehe
When I previously used Polk LSi9 mains in the HT (to match the LSiC center and LSi7 surrrounds), I used the subs as stands. They really became powered woofers which isolated any potential bass clipping from the mains and allowed me to flatten their voice.If your subwoofers are under/next to the speakers, the audible localisation issue would be largely resolved.
Agree, but I think the issue is more that low pass crossovers are not brickwall in nature. Even the 12 db/octave slope of my subs (have a pair) allows audible output above 100 hz even when set to 50 hz.
In practice, I use mine to supplement the low end of smallish Acoustat 1+1 electrostats in the HT which are more comfortable not dealing with first octave content. After much experimentation and measuring the results, I get the most linear response crossing them around 80 hz where a single sub could be directional. I run the sub crossover at highest frequency and use the HT's processor for both low and high pass duty to subs and stats.
I gave up on subwoofers, even with two identical ones. I take the limitations of whatever small speakers I am using as a given.
So no agreement on localization then? I'm hearing (no pun intended) that crossover effects that allow higher than 80Hz sound to be output violate the no-localization dictum. Makes sense. I'm also hearing that either no evidence exists showing localization testing (highly doubtful considering the $$$ associated with HT and subs) or that one person's subjective experience should serve as evidence everyone is to believe (even more doubtful). The search for audio, um, truth goes on...
Just a long history of playing test tones using my own ears, for trouble-shooting or set-up. I feel no need to read where someone noted the same thing.
Agree, but I think the issue is more that low pass crossovers are not brickwall in nature. Even the 12 db/octave slope of my subs (have a pair) allows audible output above 100 hz even when set to 50 hz.
In practice, I use mine to supplement the low end of smallish Acoustat 1+1 electrostats in the HT which are more comfortable not dealing with first octave content. After much experimentation and measuring the results, I get the most linear response crossing them around 80 hz where a single sub could be directional. I run the sub crossover at highest frequency and use the HT's processor for both low and high pass duty to subs and stats.
I can hear a bass E (~41 Hz) and where it's coming from.
Pretty compelling point.
I agree with JoeESP9 and musichal. I can hear a bass E (~41 Hz) and where it's coming from. I use two subwoofers. It's definitely better than one and smooths the response in the room. You have to locate each one properly to get the even bass. If you can get some that goes down to 16 Hz, that would be awesome.
Four subwoofers would be better still, and more uniform bass in the room, I've been told.