absolon
Super Member
What is the point of this thread?
It looks like the "straight wire with gain" theory is being questioned
- Thread starter the skipper
- Start date
Existence of a device to adjust tone proves that the "no tone adjustment" folks were wrong.
Discuss.
What's the difference between "tone adjustment" and room correction EQ as practiced by Audyssey, YPAO, Anthem ARC, etc.?
Not my thread. Take it up with the skipper!
FWIW I've got no gain in my preamp and no tone controls anywhere, but what anyone else does in the privacy of their listening room isn't my concern. If you like to play with your knobs, go right ahead!
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
I don't see any difference aside from the fact that the "room correction" examples you refer to are done automatically and "tone controls" and the like are generally done by the user. I'm not going to say either is better but, I will say some recordings I've encountered responded quite well to a slight twist of the bass/treble controls. but YMMV
Hey, it's your steak. You paid for it. Put on as much salt, pepper and steak sauce as you wish. You're the one eating it, nobody else.
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
As for "tailoring the sound", what's the baseline? Before we put the media into our system it's been bent, folded, spindled and mutilated by layers and layers of engineers and mixers well before that. So, what's the actual "untailored" sound?
The baseline is honest straight recordings that haven't been hashed.As for "tailoring the sound", what's the baseline? Before we put the media into our system it's been bent, folded, spindled and mutilated by layers and layers of engineers and mixers well before that. So, what's the actual "untailored" sound?
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
Aside from Mapleshade and some early direct to disc recordings, what others are there? Wouldn't that limit what you can listen to tremendously? I'm not going to let the quality of the recording limit what I listen to. I bought the system to listen to music, not the other way around
The baseline is whatever is in common beyond some arbitrary point we can both agree on. No fair comparing a studio version of a song with its live recording, or vinyl/tape analog with CD or hi res digital, but within a given medium same should be same and will serve perfectly well as a baseline. Now about that tailoring of the sound once the signal(s) are taken from the source...
I LIKE MUSIC
Super Member
My overly simplistic, OCDness driven, Occums's Razor based opinion.
In terms of the playback chain...
There is no right or wrong because our perception of what we like is subjective and it is very likely that we are not all the same when it comes to this. This just might be why different people prefer different equipment, different music and even different food. No matter how you look at it, our preferences in this hobby tend to be subjective. If this were not the case, we would all prefer the same equipment in terms of sound quality.
The correct differentiation is important. The "straight wire with gain" applies to basic electronic design where we want the closest resemblance of the of the output to the input, while moving or making the signal bigger or smaller. If we have this to start, as a base line, it can/may be acceptable to some and if not then the signal can be modified in whatever manner the listener prefers.
In terms of the signal in the realm of the electrical signal path this can range from changing the equipment (all the way down to the component level such as capacitors, transistors, vacuum tubes and so on), the most basic analog tone control to the most sophisticated DSP. In the physical realm, we can add in room treatment and things such a speaker placement and so on.
Again, based on the first line of this post, we like what we like and to complicate matters our preferences may change over time. As an example when I had my audio store way back, I sold a fair number of all in one compact stereo systems. Some of my customer remained happy with their initial purchase and some came back to upgrade.
Of course there is the recording chain, what ever that may be. Even for minimalist recording techniques of acoustic instruments, the
venue, and the type and placement of the microphone(s) will have an impact on the signal to be recorded among a lot of other things.
The simple answer is, nothing is perfect. Everything in the audio chain, physical to electronic, recording to playback will alter the signal, intentionally or unintentionally. And we are back to what any one person might prefer.
Debating this is just a strawman beating a dead horse.
In terms of the playback chain...
There is no right or wrong because our perception of what we like is subjective and it is very likely that we are not all the same when it comes to this. This just might be why different people prefer different equipment, different music and even different food. No matter how you look at it, our preferences in this hobby tend to be subjective. If this were not the case, we would all prefer the same equipment in terms of sound quality.
The correct differentiation is important. The "straight wire with gain" applies to basic electronic design where we want the closest resemblance of the of the output to the input, while moving or making the signal bigger or smaller. If we have this to start, as a base line, it can/may be acceptable to some and if not then the signal can be modified in whatever manner the listener prefers.
In terms of the signal in the realm of the electrical signal path this can range from changing the equipment (all the way down to the component level such as capacitors, transistors, vacuum tubes and so on), the most basic analog tone control to the most sophisticated DSP. In the physical realm, we can add in room treatment and things such a speaker placement and so on.
Again, based on the first line of this post, we like what we like and to complicate matters our preferences may change over time. As an example when I had my audio store way back, I sold a fair number of all in one compact stereo systems. Some of my customer remained happy with their initial purchase and some came back to upgrade.
Of course there is the recording chain, what ever that may be. Even for minimalist recording techniques of acoustic instruments, the
venue, and the type and placement of the microphone(s) will have an impact on the signal to be recorded among a lot of other things.
The simple answer is, nothing is perfect. Everything in the audio chain, physical to electronic, recording to playback will alter the signal, intentionally or unintentionally. And we are back to what any one person might prefer.
Debating this is just a strawman beating a dead horse.
Quite a number of recordings were made 'straight", tho' not generally associated with "popular" efforts. I'm a fan of well produced "studiocrafted" recordings as well as reference grade recordings, but am frustrated by poor sounding recordings of interesting content. If they don't sound tolerable straight thru, they don't get played much.
I'd come at it from another end, I'm thinking a soundboard recording would be good for this use.
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
Look. "straight wire with gain" is a fine design goal for an amplifier, or anything else in the signal chain. But, source material, room layout,personal preference may dictate that what reaches our ears is either not what the original intent of the recording artist or does not sound like we want it to. This little toy gives us the opportunity to, if we so desire, to put a little salt, pepper or steak sauce on our meat. ...or not. Your choice.
As to the term "audiosnob", well I do see where it might seem a bit draconian, but that's reserved for those who steadfastly refuse to accept the fact that, for whatever reason, some people like to tweak the sound to their liking and their opinion is just as valid as the purists.
It would be nice if one size fit all but in this world, it ain't happenin'.
As to the term "audiosnob", well I do see where it might seem a bit draconian, but that's reserved for those who steadfastly refuse to accept the fact that, for whatever reason, some people like to tweak the sound to their liking and their opinion is just as valid as the purists.
It would be nice if one size fit all but in this world, it ain't happenin'.
Mister Pig
Pigamus Maximus
So you call folks audiosnobs. They call your type clueless. But no harm no foul, its all good right. Don't mean nothing cause no one elses' opinion matters. And threads here never degenerate into childish behavior cause everyone respects anothers' opinion. It's all good.
Regards
Mister Pig
the skipper
Professional Curmudgeon
Point taken. Hey, what's fair is fair. Both sides should politely accept the view
of the other without commentary or animosity. I'll go along with that.
Son-of-Vere
Super Member
I see three points to this device that in my personal opinion give it a thumbs up.
1 It's cheap.
2 you can turn it off/bypass it.
3 People have asked for it.
I know I've read several threads over the years where a poster has asked if such a device exists. There's an extra cable or two that'll be thrown into the mix, and that could be degrading, but for the folks shopping for such a device, their system is probably not that revealing, and thus shouldn't be a problem. I say bravo.
1 It's cheap.
2 you can turn it off/bypass it.
3 People have asked for it.
I know I've read several threads over the years where a poster has asked if such a device exists. There's an extra cable or two that'll be thrown into the mix, and that could be degrading, but for the folks shopping for such a device, their system is probably not that revealing, and thus shouldn't be a problem. I say bravo.
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