A really good article about vinyl, digital files and cd's

[hnash53]

"It is a fact that vinyl sounds different from CDs."

Not for my better recordings. I was setting the gain matching feature on my preamp last week by playing George Winston's Autumn album synchronized with CD and find little difference.

While the upper bass was a touch thinner on the LP, the two recordings sounded remarkable similar. That experience also helped me choose the best loading for the Dynavector.

I did a similar thing where I synchronized a Spotify tune (320kbps) with the same LP tune,... and then switched back and forth. I admitted to myself that the vinyl sounded more pleasing to me. But... It did not move me to vinyl. Why? Most of the stuff I listen to is digital, and most of the stuff I listen to is NOT ON VINYL. And I appreciate the uber convenience of digital streaming... as well as the ease in which I can discover new music.

If the music I listen to was also on vinyl, it might be a different story.

It's all good ! ! !

 

[E-Stat]

If you know of an equally or more accessible video introduction to digital audio that addresses your concern, I'd be pleased to link to it from now on.

Or choice B, follow the advice of the best recording engineers and actually listen to some high resolution recordings.

Maybe you'll understand what they and many listeners already do.

 

[E-Stat]

I did a similar thing where I synchronized a Spotify tune (320kbps) with the same LP tune,... and then switched back and forth. I admitted to myself that the vinyl sounded more pleasing to me.

Understandably using lossy content with much resolution and dynamic contrasts thrown out the window.

Most of the stuff I listen to is digital, and most of the stuff I listen to is NOT ON VINYL. And I appreciate the uber convenience of digital streaming... as well as the ease in which I can discover new music.

As do I. Just don't cripple the experience with lossy content.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Or choice B, follow the advice of the best recording engineers and actually listen to some high resolution recordings.

Maybe you'll understand what they and many listeners already do.

That doesn't appear to be relevant here. I linked to the videos in my post above -- as I've done several times in the past -- because they're an effective introduction to digital audio, particularly for those who appear to be unfamiliar with it or when common misconceptions are stated. For example, I might link to the videos if someone claims there are "steps" in the audio output or that digital audio is less accurate than analog because it "misses" the signal between the samples. I didn't link to the videos to make a point about high resolution vs Red Book resolution digital audio.

 

[E-Stat]

That doesn't appear to be relevant here.

Naturally because your exposure to high resolution recordings is zilch.

A *video* about the advantages pales in comparison to actually experiencing the difference.

Perhaps one day you'll might well listen to some.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Obviously because your exposure to high resolution recordings is zilch.

Clearly, I have upset you in some fashion. Would it help to know that I have some high resolution recordings I've downloaded and some I've made?

I have listened to them, sometimes repeatedly. I hope knowing that I have done so helps to emolliate your obvious disaffection.

However, what does that have to do with linking to videos that effectively and clearly explain how digital audio works?

 

[Tim64]

What do you think is really good about it?

What I like is it does not discredit any media but points out the strengths and weaknesses of all formats and why some prefer one over another.

 

[E-Stat]

Clearly, I have upset you in some fashion...I have listened to them, sometimes repeatedly. I hope knowing that I have done so helps to emolliate your obvious disaffection.

Upset? I'm smiling from ear to ear. Would that be from your "clutter of sub-par sound systems"?

Better most certainly exists.

However, what does that have to do with linking to videos that effectively and clearly explain how digital audio works?

Simply observing what Monty fails to understand. Do you understand how brick wall filters affect the phase relationships of the signal? With the crude Redbook standard, you can either have rolled off top end or pre and/or post ringing. Which audible artifact do you prefer?

As for me, I prefer neither.

 

[hnash53]

Understandably using lossy content with much resolution and dynamic contrasts thrown out the window.


As do I. Just don't cripple the experience with lossy content.

Lots of people say they can't hear any difference. Perhaps if I was 40 years younger with no hearing loss, I could say otherwise.

When I listen, I find the experience ANYTHING BUT "crippling." Others have a different experience.

 

[Tim64]

I do some ripping vinyl to 16bit 44.1khz files using Audacity and a Behringer ADC and even though the Behringer is a cheap model I would have a damn difficult time choosing which one is playing. This is an interesting comparison because the music is being reproduced using the same equipment (stylus, TT, etc) and the same exact source copy so if there were any differences in digital it would seem likely show up here. Too bad I can't do the reverse, press a vinyl record from a CD I own and compare it that way. Wonder how it would compare?

When I had my Phillips cd recorder I would record LP's and really you could not tell the difference between the two. Had a Shure V15 III on the Lab 400 TT.

 

[E-Stat]

When I listen, I find the experience ANYTHING BUT "crippling." Others have a different experience.

I find the best digital superior to vinyl in every respect. Note the qualification.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Upset? I'm smiling from ear to ear. Would that be from your "clutter of sub-par sound systems"?

Apparently, my self-deprecatory humour was too carelessly mismanaged by Yrs Trly for you to appreciate the subtleties. My apologies; it's my fault for not expressing myself clearly.

Again, the next time I see someone express simple misunderstandings about digital audio, I'd be delighted to post a clear, easy-to-understand, and fun video that explains digital audio without raising your concerns about Monty's presentation. Please send me the link!

In the absence of a suitable alternative, and compared to the value of Monty's video for introducing the basics, I consider Monty's apparent failure to reveal the limitations of brickwall filters to be of negligible concern. I will continue to post them as an excellent introduction to digital audio.

 

[Alobar]

.

From the OP's cited article:

In 1968, a 23-year-old audio engineer named Bob Ludwig at New York's A&R Recording was asked to create a test pressing of The Band's debut, Music From Big Pink, so that the producers could hear what it would sound like on LP. During the process, he especially tried to preserve as much as possible of the deep low end of the band's sound, which he believed was critical to its music.

But when he heard the final LP that was released, he was stunned. "All the low, extreme low bass that I knew was there, was chopped right off."

Years later, when Ludwig was hired to provide the final edit (known as mastering) for a greatest-hits package for The Band, he got the album's master tapes back from Capitol Records. On the box was a note from the cutting engineer who'd made the original vinyl master, saying the album's extreme low end had to be cut out.

Well my only point was that if a CD sounded worse from vinyl it would seem to show up in a recording from vinyl, compared directly heard with identical equipment, cartridge, phono stage, etc. It Doesn't answer if the CD does better with bass than vinyl, only if it sounds worse due to some shortcomings of the CD. In my recordings I cannot tell the difference.

If however I were to manage to find the same master in both vinyl and CD and compare those, they could and probably would sound different due to the sonic characteristics of my cartridge, phono stage etc as well as different pressings which would leave one having to wonder exactly what was causing the difference.

Of course my DAC might color the sound some as well so there is that, and it wouldn't answer whether the CD sounds better ultimately because by recording from vinyl the best it could achieve is the same. Only if the CD sounds worse could anything be derived.

 

[E-Stat]

I will continue to post them as an excellent introduction to digital audio.

You do that.

Meanwhile, I'll continue to enjoy the joys of listening to high resolution recordings.

 

[awillia6]

DAC coloring? You're babbling. I'm disengaging. Good listening.

 

[justjed2]

Excuse me, I have to turn the record over...

 

[quaddriver]

what motor oil do you all use?

 

[DaveVoorhis]

what motor oil do you all use?

And that's how the fight started...

 

[ic-racer]

Can't people just buy a record and a turntable and hear for themselves. Why argue about third party opinions? I don't give a rats ass what others think about the topic, I have my own ears.

 

[quaddriver]

a digression if I may...decades ago, when 'AOL' was an online service, us car guys found it a place to hang out, plan meets, trade parts - NORMAL stuff. Then came along Amsoil and Royal Purple synthetic motor oils. they quickly gained adherents faster than any religion, and talking smack or being dismissive then was akin to today going 'long live isis' or 'go patriots'.

Fights used to start, flame wars that at times spilled into the real world - punchings, name callings, harassment - the gamut.

So one day I decided to do a survey, and of the thousands of registered users, I asked the ones with association memberships/licenses (NHRA, IHRA, SCCA etc) to pipe up on what they use in the race car. There were many many brands used, and I suspect in many cases due to 'sponsorship', i.e. they asked pennzoil for a couple cases and then ran a sticker on the side, but suffice to say it came back like 70% valvoline. The thick shit. The stuff you can only run in a race engine with filleted bearings. the stuff that would make your 2018 Rav4 engine seize into a 400lb lump of metal.

I published the results and got threats.

so much for that.

well from then on when someone asked the inevitable oil question (like oil was more important to performance, than I dunno, heads or cam...) I advised to change the oil at manufacturer recommended intervals with manufacturer recommended grades. It was then the tweasels decided I must die, so my online 'car' presence ended.

at any rate, if someone asked me how I listened to music I would reply 'yes'. which of course would make no sense to them so if pressed it would be discovered, I listen to FM (as I am now), or sometimes XM (lifetime subsc.), or records (I own a store and have thousands) or CDs (have over 500) or MP3s (have over 3000), or cassette tapes. Heck, I even have a couple 8 tracks in a drawer for testing the rare player I am tasked to fix. No R2R tho, so I guess to THAT group I am an ignorant heretic.

FWIW, the Sanford Townsend band song on 'Bob FM' right now sounds pretty good. But I suspect it has more to do with the stereo and speakers but what do I know.