One thing I have learned in this hobby Linn has said a lot of over the years. Generally their is always to try and benefit their bottom line All the while selling prosumer equipment at high end equipment prices.Linn used to insist on dealers having what they called single-speaker demonstration rooms,
Brilliant marketing. Neat audiophile theory that appeals to the OCD that is overt in some and latent in others...and gets rid of the competition. No chance of the listener hitting that pesky component selector switch and discovering that something else fits their sound preference better.
One thing I have learned in this hobby Linn has said a lot of over the years. Generally their is always to try and benefit their bottom line All the while selling prosumer equipment at high end equipment prices.
Linn always throws out into the market to try and hurt their competition. They have said a bunch of stuff over the years about other tables that consistently beat them in test. Their prices have always put them in a class of tables that are far superior to the LP12.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As an English teenage boy at an all male school, I was no stranger to b*llsh*t:. Let's face it, at my school everyone claimed to have seen top bands live, claimed to have tried drugs and claimed to have enjoyed sexual encounters at the nearby girls' skool, and these activities were obviously the products of fertile imaginations rather than fertile loins. Hence, the hyperbole expounded in this Scotsman's refreshingly original sales-line was equally obvious.
So musicality, Linn and the PRaT argument had some credence for me and my circle of music & audio freaks in that adolescent time of fanatical enthusiasm, but what did it mean?
During the years 1974-1978 I heard the term PRaT defined in a variety of ways by various shop sales-people, manufacturer distribution representatives or hifi journalists. In the earliest days only the folk involved, one way or another, with Linn or Naim (or latterly, Pink Triangle or Exposure) mentioned the elusive and as yet unmeasurable parameters involved in PRaT, which was obviously an acronym...
so what does the 'P' stand for?
Well now it is universally accepted to represent
P for PACE,
but back in the day it was also described as
P for PITCH
Linn made much of the ability of their turntable (then their sole audio product, although their reps described an experimental loudspeaker that turned out to be the 'brik) to maintain accurate pitch compared to their competition. One of their key claims to superiority over their many rivals was the capacity of a Linn LP12 to maintain better dynamic pitch stability, compared to other turntables of that period. They argued that during heavily modulated passages, the demand for more stylus deflection (to generate more electrical in the stylus/coil motor assembly of the cartridge) created more drag against the turntable platter rotation. So PITCH was a big deal at that time among that fraternity who would later be termed 'flat earth'.
Good post! Did I understand you correctly, that in a blind, curtained test an English schoolboy couldn't distinguish between a lass from the girl's school and his classmate's bum? Well, it's pretty much the same here in North Carolina, except we don't have girl's schools. We have cows.
so what does the 'P' stand for?
Well now it is universally accepted to represent
P for PACE,
but back in the day it was also described as
P for PITCH
Do you use the KEF KUBE EQ designed for your 104/2 KEF's? It does make a noticeable and measurable difference indeed.I have been a lurker on this forum for some time now. I do believe there is some merit to this theory. There have always been two set of speakers in my living room for some time. The KEF104/2 and Klipsch KLF20 lately. There have been others but the KEF’s always stayed. The KEF’s always sounded thin, no bass but always sounded different with each change. The KEF’s were recaped about 8 months ago. I was almost ready to shelf them to the basement for another day. Tonight I removed the KLF20’s. and WOW they sound so much better with extended bottom end and fuller sound. Since the KEF have been rebuild I thought they would sound great. I have a second pair of 104/2’s that were in a different room and they always sounded great, they also have been recaped and donuts replaced. They both have rubber surrounds. Thinking i will just leave the KEF's in there spots and enjoy them just alittle longer. Thanks
Well there's a difference between not valuing PRT and not believing that Linn does the best for PRT. my experience suggests that the better known old rIt seems clear in this, and in many past threads, that some hobbyists don't value or don't hear differences in a system's strengths with regard to pace, rhythm, and timing,
PRaT is, of course, three different things that are all related to the temporal qualities of music. I think the LP12 does all three pretty well, but different turntables I've heard do some things better than Linn; for example, I thought my Well Tempered was better at pace, the upper Regas better at rhythm, and the Roksan Xerxes better at timing. Other than an ancient Dual, I've never heard an idler-driven turntable, so maybe I'm missing out on something there.Well there's a difference between not valuing PRT and not believing that Linn does the best for PRT. my experience suggests that the better known old r
Idler decks also do a tremendous job with timing, and that high efficiency drivers can have a great sense of small rhythmic details. But again, it's not Linn kit
I think you missed Twiii's last few sentences in the post just above yours (and posted two hours earlier):One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the relative surface area of those unused woofer cones compared to the entire wall and floor surface of the room. . .
Is this a joke? If not, it seems ridiculous. Sure the non-working cones will vibrate sympathetically, but not to a degree of producing or aiding the sound of the others. Come on now. A little bit of knowledge...How much of a loss is there when you have one pair of speakers playing and 5 pairs of speakers not playing in one room?
I am talking about large bookshelf, 3 way type of speakers.
It might seem cut and dry to you, but this thread is evidence that the topic does warrant more discussion than "are you kidding"?Is this a joke? If not, it seems ridiculous. Sure the non-working cones will vibrate sympathetically, but not to a degree of producing or aiding the sound of the others. Come on now. A little bit of knowledge...
Is this a joke? If not, it seems ridiculous. Sure the non-working cones will vibrate sympathetically, but not to a degree of producing or aiding the sound of the others. Come on now. A little bit of knowledge...
Actually a hill of beans commands a pretty nice chunk of change these days, how much is dependent on the variety of bean of course.One thing that hasn't been mentioned here is the relative surface area of those unused woofer cones compared to the entire wall and floor surface of the room. Of course woofer cones act quite differently from wall and floor surfaces, no doubt about that. But if they make up, say, 1% of the total surface area, how much of an effect will the movement of those cones have, really? They can't draw in (or re-release) more than the ambient acoustic power per square foot that's hitting them. It's not like they suck in bass from all over the room - they absorb only what hits them. And let's keep in mind that all the other materials in the room are absorbing energy at their own rate and vibrating themselves.
I would think the volume and shape and placement of the cabinets would have much more of an effect on things, compared to not having any 'stuff' in the room.
I will admit that placement could be critical if the unused speaker is very close to an active one - just because the acoustic power is much higher there, and the unused speaker may be a 'first reflector.'
Of course this is all theoretical on my part so it's worth exactly one hill of beans.
Honestly, if I'd begin to worry about the influence of the other speakers in my room on those that I use, I'd deem myself en route to audiophilia nervosa, 'cause then I'd consequently also have to worry about the acoustic influence of anything else in the room, too.